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  1. #676
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    10,181
    We have a pretty good volunteer base, considering the size of the community. A big dig day might have 30ish people. The fact that there are plenty of riders that never come dig doesn't bother me that much. Especially if they make some nominal donation to the local club - don't have time to dig? Throw $50 / year towards the club that does the work and call it good.

    There are, however, a few people in particular that piss me off. Some of the most frequent users of the trail. People that I see almost every time I'm out digging. But they always have some lame excuse as to why they can't stop and help for 15 minutes. And they've been using those same lame excuses for years and have never once lifted a shovel. And they're cheap - they've never donated a penny to the local club either. Fuck those guys.

  2. #677
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Missoula
    Posts
    1,636
    Unless you have specific permission by the land managers/owners or your local trails organization, you should not be out there digging around on trails. Cutting out a small tree with a handsaw is about as far as anyone should go and I think the forest service for one even frowns on that. Maybe toss branches or other debris off to the side? If there's an issue with a trail, a big tree down or something, you really should just be reporting it and not trying to fix it yourself. Well, I guess unless there are no organized, official groups doing work around you. If that's the case, maybe check with the fs/owner/etc about getting something going. We have a crew of sawyers certified by the forest service on a mailing list, and usually a tree will be out within a day or two.

    And no, I don't have any problem with people who just ride and don't do volunteer days or donate. Kind of a silly expectation that every single person out there who goes hiking or running or biking would need to do that. I'm just happy they're going outside.
    Last edited by jamal; 02-01-2021 at 07:02 PM.

  3. #678
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    5,905
    ^cut a tree? I"ll rake and dig before cutting trees. Cutting a tree is like the worst thing I can possibly do when building a trail.

  4. #679
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Missoula
    Posts
    1,636
    Well, i was talking about trees that fall down across the trail.

    But anyway, as not a forest ecologist, it's my understanding that due to logging and poor management and fires and stuff parts of forest are pretty dense with young trees and thinning in these places is helpful. So in those cases cutting stuff down to make a trail go where you want isn't that big of a deal. Our newest trail up to the top of a mountain involved a lot of tree cutting.
    Last edited by jamal; 02-01-2021 at 09:26 PM.

  5. #680
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    829
    NorCal is like the only place in the world where the landowners are like, "You want to cut trees down (invasive eucalyptus which are also massive fire hazards)? Oh god yes, thank you!"

  6. #681
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    5,905
    Yeah, the EC is completely different than the west. We just don't have fires.

    I always cut downed logs out of the way. Also 'hanger' widowmakers.

  7. #682
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Snowttingham
    Posts
    909
    Quote Originally Posted by jamal View Post
    Well, i was talking about trees that fall down across the trail.
    .
    log on the trail is a skinny or a booter depending on which way its fallen.
    We're tolerated by the forestry commission as long as we stick by the unspoken rules. All jumps have a chicken line and don't use harvestable timber......carry on.


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  8. #683
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by jamal View Post
    Well, i was talking about trees that fall down across the trail.

    But anyway, as not a forest ecologist, it's my understanding that due to logging and poor management and fires and stuff parts of forest are pretty dense with young trees and thinning in these places is helpful. So in those cases cutting stuff down to make a trail go where you want isn't that big of a deal. Our newest trail up to the top of a mountain involved a lot of tree cutting.
    just make sure local rules don’t forbid cutting, some land managers (logging companies) have rules about not cutting any “harvestable” timber

  9. #684
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,468
    Quote Originally Posted by Flail Chest View Post
    just make sure local rules don’t forbid cutting, some land managers (logging companies) have rules about not cutting any “harvestable” timber
    My experience has been logging companies dont care if you cut deadfall off the trail in an area that wont be logged in the next year, because the log will start to rot and not be saleable anyways. If a harvest is coming up then cutting downed trees for a few more weeks of obstacle free riding is frowned upon and does not build rapport with the loggers. And you NEVER cut living trees on private logging land. Never, ever without permission- that is basically stealing.

    How prevalent is logging on the East Coast of the US? I wouldnt think they have big tree farms like in the US/CA PNW, but idk?

  10. #685
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    5,905
    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post

    How prevalent is logging on the East Coast of the US? I wouldnt think they have big tree farms like in the US/CA PNW, but idk?
    Yeah, I actually don't know either. It's too populous around me, but up in Maine and northern NH above our mtns was a big paper industry for years and the industry is barely hanging on, so I imagine we're still logging a lot up there, but that isn't prime mtn bike area...or maybe it's good, but it's in the middle of nowhere. Or as the Maine'ers say, "ya can't get there from here"

    The property owner where I'm mostly building now has harvested sections of his land, but in the big picture he owns a really small parcel. I forget how many acres it is, but it's a nice network that abuts conservation land that has bike trails. All in we approach 25 miles...but it's a small intestine of a network.

  11. #686
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    2,307
    Been doing lots of digging lately.

    Did another re-build of the berm we fixed up a couple weeks ago. It was still too tight and awkward. Still a bit quirky but runs better now both up and down



    Last edited by evdog; 02-10-2021 at 01:26 AM.

  12. #687
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    2,307
    Took a break from that area and did some digging at another local spot that always gets hammered after storms. We had a couple big storms. Time to get to work. This trail runs down the bottom of a canyon with minimal chance to get water off the trail. Did some work to get it off where possible.





    Last edited by evdog; 02-10-2021 at 12:58 AM.

  13. #688
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    2,307
    Today we went out and built much of a re-route of the shittiest section of this one trail. We are replacing this section, approx 300ft of 18% avg grade, ranging from 12-26% that has narrow bench and is badly ledged. So bad it has split into two trails in spots where *gasp* a rock has poked out of the tread. We'd have to re-bench this section completely and it would need annual maintenance due to Socal's mediocre average skill level, so we decided to re-route it with more sustainable trail. Replace with 2 climbing turns and some contouring singletrack averaging around 10% grade.




    Upper section, not connected yet to the existing trail




    The switchback was very steep initially so we kept digging the upper end deeper and using that dirt to raise the lower part. End result was a climbing turn that flows pretty well both uphill and down. Early testing:




    End result, pre tamping. Still need to add more dirt to firm up the back side of the berm but it is rideable for now. Then build the lower berm below it, connect the upper contouring section to the existing trail and block off/cover up the existing trail section.


    Last edited by evdog; 02-10-2021 at 01:47 AM.

  14. #689
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    2,307
    More digging today. We built the lower berm which ties this reroute into the existing trail. And finished the 60ft or so to tie it in at the top. Both still require some fine tuning fine both uphill and down as is. Stoked to have this done. Makes the trail so much better.





    Last edited by evdog; 02-10-2021 at 01:49 AM.

  15. #690
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    5,905
    Your pics aren't showing up?

  16. #691
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    2,307
    Thx.. I tried hot-linking from google pics but maybe there is an issue with permissions from my main album or something. Loaded into my normal hosting site, hope they are visible now. Went out today and did some fine tuning. All done til we see how it holds up for a while.

  17. #692
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    5,905
    ^nice! Tight steep switchbacks are tough to make right. The few I have made just end up being a grind up and the down kinda sucks. The berm you've made looks good.

    That wet area looks really difficult to manage. A lot of erosion to be that deep down I guess?

  18. #693
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Snowttingham
    Posts
    909
    @evdog some cool shizzle occurring with your shovel

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  19. #694
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Snowttingham
    Posts
    909
    bit of a jump going in. not my work but was by part of our dig crewName:  IMG-20210209-WA0009.jpeg
Views: 58
Size:  54.2 KB

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  20. #695
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    2,307
    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    ^nice! Tight steep switchbacks are tough to make right. The few I have made just end up being a grind up and the down kinda sucks. The berm you've made looks good.

    That wet area looks really difficult to manage. A lot of erosion to be that deep down I guess?
    These ones are still a bit of a grind but as long as you give a burst of pedal strokes you'll make it up no problem. Much better than the steep straight stretch it replaced. Close to 1/3 of riders would only make it half way up that, lots more would get tripped up near the top. Almost everyone would curse on that climb.

    The other section is a touch spot. Water can't get off the trail for the most part, and wherever there is a rock or anything that obstructs flow the water churns everything up and digs a big hole. Can't do much but fill it in. The other 350 days of sun per year it is dry. I'm going to try and install a couple more big water bars where the canyon flattens out. And then just fill in the holes and ruts from the last storms.

  21. #696
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Snowttingham
    Posts
    909
    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    These ones are still a bit of a grind but as long as you give a burst of pedal strokes you'll make it up no problem. Much better than the steep straight stretch it replaced. Close to 1/3 of riders would only make it half way up that, lots more would get tripped up near the top. Almost everyone would curse on that climb.

    The other section is a touch spot. Water can't get off the trail for the most part, and wherever there is a rock or anything that obstructs flow the water churns everything up and digs a big hole. Can't do much but fill it in. The other 350 days of sun per year it is dry. I'm going to try and install a couple more big water bars where the canyon flattens out. And then just fill in the holes and ruts from the last storms.
    I'm very envious of your dry conditions. I can't remember the kast time I rode and didn't get a wet arse and have to hose down my bike

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  22. #697
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    2,277
    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    More digging today. We built the lower berm which ties this reroute into the existing trail. And finished the 60ft or so to tie it in at the top. Both still require some fine tuning fine both uphill and down as is. Stoked to have this done. Makes the trail so much better.
    evdog, where in SD County is this, generally-speaking or more specifically. I'll be headed down to Encinitas for first vacation in...16 months (!!!) in April, and planning on bringing the bike.
    sproing!

    FS: Head Kore 1 touring boot - https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...iller-A-T-boot

    FS: Scarpa Maestrale RS 2.0 - https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...RS-2-0-size-29

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