REI="Return Every Item" is no more

[Danno]

REI now limits their 100% satisfaction guarantee to a year, and 30 days for outlet items. Just received this in an email blast, but it's also here: http://www.rei.com/help/guarantee.html

Discuss.

[From_the_NEK]

Is that for items purchased from this point on, or can I still return the climbing rope I bought 15 years ago?

[toast2266]

That's a bummer. It was pretty much the only reason I ever shopped at REI.

I wonder how they're going to handle products that still have a manufacturer's lifetime satisfaction guarantee.

[GeezerSteve]

The one-year limitation applies only to the subjective "100% satisfaction" warranty. REI's limited warranty for defects in materials or workmanship has no such time limit (although applicable law may impose a time limitation). Likewise, manufacturer's warranties are unaffected by the change. This change should affect only those who abuse REI's subjective warranty, e.g., wearing boots for 200 days of hiking and then returning them on the pretext that "they don't 100% satisfy me." I've run into people who have bragged about doing that.

[String]

If you were to buy a pair of knock off north face pants in Honk Kong for $30. One could potentially return them at REI in the states for around $400.

[AK47bp]

If you were to buy a pair of knock off north face pants in Honk Kong for $30. One could potentially return them at REI in the states for around $400.

Bingo.

Even easier to buy from Goodwill or Craigslist and do the same.

[Danno]

This change should affect only those who abuse REI's subjective warranty, e.g., wearing boots for 200 days of hiking and then returning them on the pretext that "they don't 100% satisfy me." I've run into people who have bragged about doing that.

No, it affects more than just those abusers. But thanks for painting us all as douchebags.

[stfu&gbtw]

I've run into people who have bragged about doing that.

As in, you hit them with your car? If so, Big Steve = Awesome.

[stfu&gbtw]

No, it affects more than just those abusers. But thanks for painting us all as douchebags.

So, under what circumstances do you think it's appropriate to use an item for more than a year and return it to REI when it wouldn't otherwise be covered under a manufacturer's warranty?

[dynodonkeyaltabird]

you can return stuff to rei that wasnt bought at rei?

[GeezerSteve]

No, it affects more than just those abusers.

Explain, please. Is a year not enough time to determine whether or not you are satisfied with your purchase of an item? If not, how much more time than 365 days do you need to decide whether you are satisfied with a purchase?

As I stated above, REI's limited warranty re defects in materials or workmanship is not subject to the new one-year limitation.

[Mofro261]

read this in the paper today- examples they used included a lady returning her jogging stroller because her kids had outgrown it, and a guy returning his roof rack because it didn't look as nice with the color of his new car.

[Danno]

So, under what circumstances do you think it's appropriate to use an item for more than a year and return it to REI when it wouldn't otherwise be covered under a manufacturer's warranty?

First of all, one need not "use an item for a year", one need only "own the item for a year"; I think that's a huge distinction. Sometimes that use may be very small over a year, such that determining whether the item suits your needs or not isn't determined. While I can adjust to REI's change (one way is by not buying there of course), one reason I like buying from REI is that I don't have to worry about figuring out whether the item is perfect. I have returned a grand total of 3 items to REI over the years, but I liked the policy as "insurance" for the purchasing decision.

In any case, here's one example along the lines you asked: you know those cheap camp chairs, that cost $5 or $10? Like this? That sometimes last a while and sometimes break the first day you use it? Well, on the advice of a friend I purchased an expensive one from REI, for $35 or so, figuring that I was insuring against such breakage. That if the chair broke 2 years later, I could return it, knowing that if the chair lasted a long time I'd be happy with the purchase and not return it. Which it has, the chair is close to falling apart now but it's been years; it was worth the money and I wouldn't dream of returning it. But when it finally "dies", I won't buy a chair like that from REI again, because if I do and it breaks in year 2, I don't want to have to argue that it was defective in order to return it. I'd rather just go with buying the $5-10 chairs over and over.

[stfu&gbtw]

First of all, one need not "use an item for a year", one need only "own the item for a year"; I think that's a huge distinction. Sometimes that use may be very small over a year, such that determining whether the item suits your needs or not isn't determined. While I can adjust to REI's change (one way is by not buying there of course), one reason I like buying from REI is that I don't have to worry about figuring out whether the item is perfect. I have returned a grand total of 3 items to REI over the years, but I liked the policy as "insurance" for the purchasing decision.

In any case, here's one example along the lines you asked: you know those cheap camp chairs, that cost $5 or $10? Like this? That sometimes last a while and sometimes break the first day you use it? Well, on the advice of a friend I purchased an expensive one from REI, for $35 or so, figuring that I was insuring against such breakage. That if the chair broke 2 years later, I could return it, knowing that if the chair lasted a long time I'd be happy with the purchase and not return it. Which it has, the chair is close to falling apart now but it's been years; it was worth the money and I wouldn't dream of returning it. But when it finally "dies", I won't buy a chair like that from REI again, because if I do and it breaks in year 2, I don't want to have to argue that it was defective in order to return it. I'd rather just go with buying the $5-10 chairs over and over.

$35 is not a lot of money for a camp chair. In my not even vaguely humble opinon, if you use a $35 camp chair for 2 years and it breaks and you return it, you are abusing the policy. The policy is there to ensure the viability of a particular product, not to work as a lifetime warranty against wear and tear. Too many people looked at it like that, and now it's gone. Nice job.

[dynodonkeyaltabird]

what camp chairs are you looking at? most are less than $10, imho $35 is a lot for one.

[GeezerSteve]

In any case, here's one example along the lines you asked: you know those cheap camp chairs, that cost $5 or $10? Like this? That sometimes last a while and sometimes break the first day you use it? Well, on the advice of a friend I purchased an expensive one from REI, for $35 or so, figuring that I was insuring against such breakage. That if the chair broke 2 years later, I could return it, knowing that if the chair lasted a long time I'd be happy with the purchase and not return it. Which it has, the chair is close to falling apart now but it's been years; it was worth the money and I wouldn't dream of returning it. But when it finally "dies", I won't buy a chair like that from REI again, because if I do and it breaks in year 2, I don't want to have to argue that it was defective in order to return it. I'd rather just go with buying the $5-10 chairs over and over.

I don't get your point. If the chair falls apart in less than two years, it's defective and REI will cover it. If the chair does not fall apart until years later, the chair had outlived its useful life, and you got a good deal on a cheap chair that lasted for its foreseeable useful life. The problem with REI's former policy is that many -- yes, many, i.e., thousands of -- people used an item well past its foreseeable useful life and then returned the item on the pretext that they were "not 100% satisfied" with their purchase. Proving subjective satisfaction is impossible and people therefore have the ability to game the system by merely lying, and that's why the old policy was absurd in the first place.

BTW, I have a couple of those chairs. They failed in their first year. I repaired them. Repairing gear is what I almost always do when it fails; I'm the guy who pays a higher price for everything to subsidize those who game the system.

[PNWbrit]

what camp chairs are you looking at? most are less than $10, imho $35 is a lot for one.

Big Steve only buys vapor barrier camp chairs.

They're dearer.

[Danno]

$35 is not a lot of money for a camp chair. In my not even vaguely humble opinon, if you use a $35 camp chair for 2 years and it breaks and you return it, you are abusing the policy. The policy is there to ensure the viability of a particular product, not to work as a lifetime warranty against wear and tear. Too many people looked at it like that, and now it's gone. Nice job.

If you read any of my post, I never returned the chair. And have only returned 3 items total, ever, in 2 decades of buying shit there.

But how is $35 not a lot of money for a camp chair, when they are $5-$10 all over the place?

[String]

If you like REI and think they're a great company you should read this:

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing...?topic=20872.0

[GeezerSteve]

And have only returned 3 items total, ever, in 2 decades of buying shit there.

Had REI's entire membership did that, the policy would not have been changed. But that wasn't reality. The old policy was being abused to absurd levels.

If you like REI and think they're a great company you should read this:

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing...?topic=20872.0

Please read that, including my contributions to that thread. The decision to appeal was made by REI's insurance carrier, not REI, and the mess resulted from the insurance industry lobby and the state legislators in the pockets of that lobby.

[stfu&gbtw]

If you read any of my post, I never returned the chair. And have only returned 3 items total, ever, in 2 decades of buying shit there.

But how is $35 not a lot of money for a camp chair, when they are $5-$10 all over the place?

If you choose to spend $35 on a camp chair, that's your business. Just because it's more than average doesn't mean it will be indestructible or that the reseller should have to replace it when it breaks after 2 years. You're buying a chair, which has an expected lifespan - not a lifetime subscription for new camp chairs.

[spook]

This change should affect only those who abuse REI's subjective warranty, e.g., wearing boots for 200 days of hiking and then returning them on the pretext that "they don't 100% satisfy me." I've run into people who have bragged about doing that.

i've had more than one rei employee ENCOURAGE me to do that.

[Danno]

I don't get your point. If the chair falls apart in less than two years, it's defective and REI will cover it.

How do you know? Where is the 2 year chair warranty? I only return items that I feel are defective, generally speaking, that I feel like failed when they shouldn't have. In the previous policy, I just returned the item. Now, I have to prove to some REI drone that the item is defective. How do I go about proving that the $35 chair should last more than 2 years? That's still subjective. And if they take away the subjective component and go by something like MFR warranty, they won't accept the chair return.

And good for you for fixing shit and paying a higher price for everything to subsidize those who game the system. Do you need an oxygen mask up there in that rarefied air you're breathing, looking down on us little people?

[PNWbrit]

If you like REI and think they're a great company you should read this:

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing...?topic=20872.0

As sad as Monica's story is you'd probably be better off blaming REI's insurers than blaming REI.

Here is a far better indictment of them

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2003-06.../who-owns-rei/

[Danno]

If you choose to spend $35 on a camp chair, that's your business. Just because it's more than average doesn't mean it will be indestructible or that the reseller should have to replace it when it breaks after 2 years. You're buying a chair, which has an expected lifespan - not a lifetime subscription for new camp chairs.

Yet again you didn't read my post. I did not expect a lifetime subscription for new camp chairs; in fact I explicitly said that I'm satisfied with the original chair purpose. But the higher cost of the REI chair now means I will no longer choose to spend $35 on a camp chair at REI. :shrug: