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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Barefoot Ted's place
    Snigger........
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Other online retailers have contributed much more to the demise of B&M outdoor shops.
    Location specific. Around here, I don't think there's any doubt that REI played the biggest role; we only have one non-REI outdoor shop left, and they fucking suck. Funny you mention them killing bike shops; they don't seem to have had any effect on those in my town.

    That said, I don't hate on REI. I wish they didn't change their return policy, and I disagreed with your notion that anyone who returned something after a year was an abuser of the policy. But they are what they are. I'll probably shop for big ticket items there less; I bought my Chariot there (plus a bunch of expensive accessories) because of the return policy. I thought "well, I can buy it cheaper used, but why not buy it new from REI with a no-hassle return policy". Knowing that if I ended up deciding not to use one of the accessories (like the ski attachment) I could return it, and if something broke or didn't work as advertised, I could return it and not have to worry about convincing someone it was a defect. It gave me comfort on what turned out to be close to $1000. If I was doing it again, I'd search for one used and buy accessories (used) as the need arose.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    . . . your notion that anyone who returned something after a year was an abuser of the policy.
    I didn't say that.

    The bike shop killing thing might be specific to Seattle, where REI is the biggest bicycle shop in town.

    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Snigger........
    Yeah, I don't know the name of his shop. I've got no ill will towards Ted. He stole my bud's wife but it's cool cuz my bud is better off cuz of it.

  4. #104
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    I didn't say that
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    This change should affect only those who abuse REI's subjective warranty
    lawyer on lawyer crime, we all win.

    ancedotally I've been told in several markets (that unlike Seattle weren't large enough to support many stores) that REI was a factor in the closing of independents.

  5. #105
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    Are you guys talking about how REI "killed off" Olympic Sports and Sturtevant's?

    They are ALL victims of the times, the old REI on Pike/Pine had actual employees who knew what they were talking about, and product you couldn't easily get anywhere else. The new REI has underinformed and low-wage "associates" who may or may not have ever ventured outside in their lives.
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  6. #106
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    Holy shit- 5 pages of pouting because REI won't take your shit-stained longjohn's back after 10 years.

  7. #107
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    Correct. REI's objective warranty (defects in workmanship or materials) is not limited by time. Those returning defective items after one year were not abusing the policy. Those who returned worn out climbing shoes after three years on the pretext that the user was not 100% satisfied were abusers.

    So, HC, are you claiming that REI has been a bigger factor than all other online outdoor retailers in the demise of B&M outdoor gear shops? Ha ha ha ha. And we all buy from online retailers.

  8. #108
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by 1080Rider View Post
    Holy shit- 5 pages of pouting because REI won't take your shit-stained longjohn's back after 10 years.
    nah, dumbass, it's 5 pages of pouting because we won't be able to get likenew gear that some yuppie returned to give some room on the maxed out credit card. and big steve being a seattle fucktard.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    and big steve being a seattle fucktard.
    Why the redundancy? All Seattleites are fucktards

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Laugh all you want, boy. Since Reagan era deregulation, the exposure to big jury awards has been de facto regulation of consumer products.
    Hmmm. The history of prod liab case law (and its effect on those who sell or distribute products) suggests that exposure to big jury awards always has been the de facto driver of consumer product safety, wouldn't it?

    Anyway, good posts in the TAY thread. Maybe worth mentioning here is that REI (and any other retailer of its size) has almost no room to disregard what its prod liab or general business operations carrier wants. When you are that big, your exposures have to be covered, and no carrier is going to care whether your "business model" (or affiliated retail strategy/image) often suggests to the contrary. REI could try to shop its coverage around (and its risk manager should be doing that, and likely is) but carriers are going to demand carrier-friendly retail policies regardless of what the insured wants.

    The alternative would be for REI to self-insure, or create a captive insurance company (if WA law permits that). Does REI have a big enough asset pool to self-insure at the exposure levels its operations create? And if it does, are the execs willing to let that happen?

    I worked at the College Park MD store 1991-1993. Back then it was clear that REI was going with the balls-out profit-uber-alles model, and the store managers who thrived were those who pursued that strategy. I'm sure it hasn't grown more customer-friendly in the intervening 20 years.

    IMO the problem is that people confuse their preconceived notion of what REI is ("co-op" and therefore laid-back, customer-friendly) with how REI actually does business (profit first, everything else later).

    We used to joke about the return policy when I worked there. People would buy shit for a weekend trip and then return it, saying they weren't 100% satisfied, using some fabbed rationale to cover their Free Gear Rentals! abuse of the return policy.

    I'm not sure how people think Big Steve is apologizing for REI here. He's just stating how things work, which is far different.

  11. #111
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by creaky fossil View Post
    I'm not sure how people think Big Steve is apologizing for REI here.
    Because he spends multiple posts talking about how not-bad <10% of REI locations are, ignoring that the other 90% are shitty? We all "know" the way things work. Amazingly, some of us would like that to change.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rip'nStick View Post
    ...In many places in the US, including my new home in SoCal, REI or Adventure16 are the only decent outdoors stores in miles.
    ^Cause:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rip'nStick View Post
    ... all the hate and outrage at REI...
    ^Effect:

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Because he spends multiple posts talking about how not-bad <10% of REI locations are, ignoring that the other 90% are shitty? We all "know" the way things work. Amazingly, some of us would like that to change.
    Yeah I know, you're King Snarko of the One-Note Tune. Hilarious.

    As a general rule I don't shop at REI since my experience working there 20 yrs ago put me off. I'd like it to be better too. I'd like the whole friggin' business culture in America to be better. Sadly, it is not what I want, mainly because a lot of Americans are selfish fucks and won't let cooperatives thrive as cooperatives -- instead they use the co-op model as a Loss Leader, much as REI did.

    Maybe the fact that adults chase trinkets like 8 year old kids in the run-up to Xmas, and grow disillusioned with their New Xmas Toy within 1 week of Xmas has something to do with it?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    nah, dumbass, it's 5 pages of pouting ...
    Heh, and i'm the dumbass

  15. #115
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by creaky fossil View Post
    Yeah I know, you're King Snarko of the One-Note Tune. Hilarious.
    Pissed you are only a bitter Queen?

    Quote Originally Posted by creaky fossil View Post
    Maybe the fact that adults chase trinkets like 8 year old kids in the run-up to Xmas, and grow disillusioned with their New Xmas Toy within 1 week of Xmas has something to do with it?
    Clearly we should make life easier for the trinket vendors to stop this vicious cycle. The posturing from the industry side is hilarious. We make crap, price it high, and are shocked that some people don't like this!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post

    Yeah, I don't know the name of his shop. I've got no ill will towards Ted. He stole my bud's wife but it's cool cuz my bud is better off cuz of it.
    Silly sounding shop for people to buy shoes to make them look silly when running.... So Seattle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by creaky fossil View Post
    Hmmm. .

    IMO the problem is that people confuse their preconceived notion of what REI is ("co-op" and therefore laid-back, customer-friendly) with how REI actually does business (profit first, everything else later).

    We used to joke about the return policy when I worked there. People would buy shit for a weekend trip and then return it, saying they weren't 100% satisfied, using some fabbed rationale to cover their Free Gear Rentals! abuse of the return policy.

    I'm not sure how people think Big Steve is apologizing for REI here. He's just stating how things work, which is far different.
    In Reno, WalMart puts up signs three weeks before and three weeks after Burning Man that no returns will be taken on anything camping related until after that time frame.

  18. #118
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    Seattle? Shady ambulance chasers? Smugness? The three S's. Hugh, how come you didnt PM me about this thread?!!?!?!?!?!??!

  19. #119
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by commonlaw View Post
    Seattle? Shady ambulance chasers? Smugness? The three S's. Hugh, how come you didnt PM me about this thread?!!?!?!?!?!??!
    Because Rootskier has Vibram 5-fingers now and beat you by a day.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by commonlaw View Post
    The three S's.
    Make that 11: Seattle PaSSive AggreSSive Still have Spring Snow, will Still be Skiing into Summer
    Last edited by Big Steve; 06-05-2013 at 02:24 PM.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    but the people that really abuse the policy will just abuse it more frequently - what's to stop them from returning the stuff and cycling gear at 11 months?
    Some manager flagging their name and stopping them from returning shit? Same as ever, the new policy just gives them more leeway.

    I still argue that they'll probably do later returns if you're cool about it and you're obviously not abusing the policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Pissed you are only a bitter Queen?
    3 strikes. Nice time at the plate.

    Happy. Salty. Breeder.

    Back to the dugout, after admitting it's you who's angry, bitter and pirating the good ship Ram-Poop.

  23. #123
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    I buy cheap chairs that break. Then I decided to buy a more expensive one from REI that lasted a long time. I won't buy any more of these good chairs because if they happen to break a few years later I can't return them.

    Incredible logic!
    Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

  24. #124
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    Wow, I'm coming into this thread late. I skipped several pages of blabber...

    My two experiences with REI's policy were returning a pair of pants whose zipper failed. They offered to repair the pants but it was a two hour drive from where I lived to the nearest REI so I opted to replace the pants rather than waste the gas on a return trip (this was within 1 year of purchase). The second experience was with an REI brand therm-a-rest type mattress. I had owned it for a couple of years but it had gotten very little use. I took it on a car camping trip in iceland for several weeks and realized after the 2nd night that it would start out fully inflated in the evening and be flat in the morning. When I got home I searched high and low for a leak and concluded that the thing had microscopic leaks everywhere. The thing was flawed. When I explained the problem to the customer service person I got looked at like I was crazy. But because of the policy I didn't have to prove that the product was flawed, I just told them I wanted my money back.

    On another occasion, I was standing in line and watched a guy return a very worn out pair of hiking boots. His reason, "they didn't fit well". I wanted to punch the guy. If they didn't fit then why did he hike the whole damn PCT in them.

    I also had an acquaintance who worked at a climbing shop and would get pro-deals on expensive gear (like a whole set of BD cams). Then he'd return them to REI for cash. Beyond sleazy...

    Their policy was absurd and I'm amazed that it took this long to change. I'll miss it but only because I never abused it.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buke View Post
    I also had an acquaintance who worked at a climbing shop and would get pro-deals on expensive gear (like a whole set of BD cams). Then he'd return them to REI for cash. Beyond sleazy...
    Heh. Yeah. Beyond sleezy = intentional fraud.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

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