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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    420

    Cochise vs Katana

    Which one is better for blasting through the worst of crud?

    And, in general, do they each have the feel of their younger brothers? (Brahma and Kendo)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Golden, Colorado
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    5,868
    Kendo is a very different feel from the Katana. I'd say the Brahma would feel similar to the Cochise though. Haven't tried either though. Only tried the Bushwackers and Magnum 8.5s. Based on my experience with the Bushwackers, I bet the Cochises are awesome in soft crud. The Katanas are also. Pick whatever is cheaper?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Verbier
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    162
    I have the Cochise in the 193cm size and they certainly need speed to come alive. I am afraid I cannot compare them to the Katana, but Blister have reviews of both, so that would be a good place to look.

    http://blistergearreview.com/index-ski-reviews

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    verbier, milan, isla de pascua
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    4,806
    I have both in 185. Imvho the cochise is slightly better in the worst crud because of the front rocker. Dunno about brahma and kendo.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Crested Butte, CO
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    757
    Cochise is way looser than brahma or any of its little brothers (bushwacker, bonafide). It can rail turns for sure, but its just a lot easier to break in and out of a slarve than the others.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    420
    Thanks for replies... keep them coming.

    I read a review (I've been reading a ton) that says the Katana can be driven, while the Cochise must be skied from the center.

    I had some passive interest in some metal free mid-fats, but reading those reviews it's pretty clear those have a uni-dimensional focus (not inluding stability/crud-busting). Also, having skied a couple myself, I'm not enthused with those.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Crested Butte, CO
    Posts
    757
    Cochise is mounted at -11 and has a ton of metal, you can and should drive the tips like a race ski. If you want to stand up, pressure your heels, and wash out the tails they do that too.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    420
    Aren't Marker and Volkl the same company? Why did they make a flagship ski that is two mm larger than their medium royal family break-width?

    Anyhoo, I've decided on the Cochise. I own another Flipcore ski, and it is honestly the best thing since sliced bread. I sized up, though. Everyone is making skis too short these days.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
    Posts
    12,479
    The 185 cochise is awesome... The fastest I skied this year was on the 193... Had those out for a few days. Both extremely capable.
    www.dpsskis.com
    www.point6.com
    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    3,097
    Don't want to start a new thread, but need some help. Thinning the quiver down, need too replace two floppy pow skis with a do anything resort ski, only looking at 185 Cochise or 184 Katana. Open to other suggestions, but can I get some comparisons on those two models please?

    Powder, Trees, Crud and Chop, Bumps, and groomers.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    188
    The Cochise is A LOT easier to ski than the Katana. For whatever that's worth.
    Also, it's the most fun hard pack ski I've been on in quite some time.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotoad View Post
    The Cochise is A LOT easier to ski than the Katana. For whatever that's worth.
    Also, it's the most fun hard pack ski I've been on in quite some time.
    Actually that helps a good bit. about 50 % actually, from that i can distinguish more on my own...The cochise is going to be better on groomers, bumps and trees, while the katana will be better in Crud and Chop and overall stability at speed. All i need to know is pow performance comparisons because the katana has a 112mm waist but the cochise has "flip core"... Then i can choose. Will be demoing the 177 cochise tommorow, so ill be able to scale up my experience.

  13. #13
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    Oct 2009
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    i dont think the cochise floats that well (i ski the 193). for me it is the perfect DD, but if you ski a lot of untracked you're going to want something that'll float more [if you don't have something already].

  14. #14
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    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    Quote Originally Posted by shroom View Post
    i dont think the cochise floats that well (i ski the 193). for me it is the perfect DD, but if you ski a lot of untracked you're going to want something that'll float more [if you don't have something already].
    I have a full quiver of skis, and im getting sick of pow specific skis(which makes up half of my quiver) being so terrible all around. My only relatively thin ski is a moment pb&j, which I enjoy a lot, but doesnt have the stiffness and bite I want and enjoy some days. Had a on3p vicik, and also enjoyed a ton, but the shape wasnt conducive to the way I ski. I really like the sound of a full rockerd alternative with metal. Keeps all the stability, while increasing forgiveness a touch.

    This is a tough decision, as i know the cochise will be more fun to ski in bounds, but the katana will be more fun to ski out of bounds. I ski sidecountry about half of my day, half of the time (if that makes any sense?), so need to consider that as well. But will be using a 190 bibby pro for half my days where im out of bounds half the time, lol....Hmmmmmm, livelier in bumps and on groomers, or more stable and better in pow?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NE
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    1,232
    I have some strong feelings on this. I have owned both, and still have the Katana.

    The Katana is MUCH better on hard snow in my opinion and to me that is the signficant advantage. I also think it floats better. Volkl really nailed the rocker profile on these and even though they have no camber, they ski like a cambered ski when it comes to turn initiation. The tails are also very stiff and will be there when you need them, yet can be pivoted. The Katana is not an easy ride and demands real skill to get the most out of the ski. However, unlike most skis that aren't an easy ride, it isn't planky and doesn't ski heavy to me because it can be pivoted and will tolerate short turns very well.not as wide

    The Cochise is a charger for sure, but also an easy ride. Its a rare combo that can be appreciated by a huge range of skill levels. It pivots very easily, and in my opinion wanted to be pivoted almost too much, as opposed to carve or snap off turns. This makes it very manuverable and also very skiable for a less skilled skier and therefore has more broad based appeal. Both skis shine in soft cruddy conditions and if all I skied was crud with a soft base underneath I might choose the Cochise. But to me the Katana is worlds better when you throw a hard surface into the mix.
    "You don't want to run into me on the tram dock. I went to jail. I have an inclinometer, and a friend of a friend who's a lawyer. Why do you have to be such a hater? I was just trying to post some stoke." The Suit

    "I demoed the Davenport 2 weeks ago, I really liked them a lot... the blue sidewalls and tip really looked great with my pants. I also tried the '11 MX98, they didn't look as good with my outfit. If you have blue pants or maybe some Lange race boots I recommend you check them out."

  16. #16
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    ^^it's weird that i keep reading that about the hard snow performance; i love the cochise on hard snow. it must just be a preference thing.

  17. #17
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    NE
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    I think it has to do with how you like to initiate your turns and your tolerance for pivoting. It's a lot of personal preferance. I also think, like me, the people who struggle with this aspect (shortcoming in my book) of the Cochise are east coast or racer types who need a ski that is at least tolerable on ice. The Katana blows the Cochise out of the water in this respect. There aren't many days in VT where ice is completely avoidable and I would rather not be the guy pivoting and skidding
    over it.

    Whether or not there is meaningful camber on next years Cochise seems to be up for debate still, but Blizzard does say they made some changes to improve hard snow performance. As much as it might sound like a Cochise hater, I am not, and if next years is tweaked a little I would consider buying it again.
    "You don't want to run into me on the tram dock. I went to jail. I have an inclinometer, and a friend of a friend who's a lawyer. Why do you have to be such a hater? I was just trying to post some stoke." The Suit

    "I demoed the Davenport 2 weeks ago, I really liked them a lot... the blue sidewalls and tip really looked great with my pants. I also tried the '11 MX98, they didn't look as good with my outfit. If you have blue pants or maybe some Lange race boots I recommend you check them out."

  18. #18
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    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    I think the 184 katana will be money.

  19. #19
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    Apr 2004
    Location
    verbier, milan, isla de pascua
    Posts
    4,806
    Have cochise and katana, but have been impressed a lot by the 4frnt devastator lately. It manages groomed, crud and chop like the metalized cochise and katana but is much more fun in pow and trees

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Chamonix
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    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Smails View Post
    The Cochise is a charger for sure, but also an easy ride. Its a rare combo that can be appreciated by a huge range of skill levels. It pivots very easily, and in my opinion wanted to be pivoted almost too much, as opposed to carve or snap off turns. This makes it very manuverable and also very skiable for a less skilled skier and therefore has more broad based appeal. Both skis shine in soft cruddy conditions and if all I skied was crud with a soft base underneath I might choose the Cochise. But to me the Katana is worlds better when you throw a hard surface into the mix.
    Pretty much this. I have 198 Katanas and a friend has 193 Cochises; we've swapped around a few times. The Katana feels more solid to me but the Cochise is way easier to ski and feels more fun mostly because of the softer tail but still feels stable and good in choppy snow. It took me a while to figure out the Katana but the Cochise felt very natural on the first run. Neither are "powder skis" but they do well. I wouldn't sell my Katanas for Cochises - they work in my quiver.

    For all conditions get the Cochise. If in doubt, size up, it's way easier to ski than certain internet write-ups suggest.
    Last edited by LC; 02-11-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  21. #21
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    Sep 2012
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    Tahoe
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    Im 6'3 185. I wanna go with the 191 or 193, but i need a daily driver that can do more than survive in tight trees and big bumps. Jackson hole has some places where the 198 would be ideal, but so many tight spots off piste. I need to get better before i can daily drive a 191 katana.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    seatown
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    im 6'2" 185 and mounted +~1.75 on the 193 cochise and at least at that mount point, it is super easy to ski. That's really what I love about the ski - super easy to ski but totally capable - i can go as fast as my balls will let me in the choppiest of chop - which is exactly what i wanted when i purchased the ski.


    i haven't been on a katana since like the '09 model so i can't really speak to that.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    da hood
    Posts
    1,118
    I have many days on both Cochise and Katana, so I'll chime in. The Katana is a beast, but prefers more open terrain and takes a little more rider strength to finesse in tighter spaces. It doesn't have a lot of pop at medium speeds. The Cochise is just as capable as a comp tool, but is much better at bashing tracked up terrain, much quicker in trees, and a better powder ski imo, although it is not a powder specific ski by any means. I rarely ski on ice, so I can't comment on east coast performance. They are equally fast skis on groomers, both capable of railing trenches.

    The Katana has more durable bases, but I'd give the overall construction nod to the Cochise.

    I ski the 193 Cochise, and just sold the 191 Katana if that helps.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
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    I demoed the 185 cochise today. It was really fun to ski on groomers, and it was easier to ski than my moment pbj in bumps, which is decently nimble so thats saying something. I think if I bought them id want the 193, but in bumps it would pose a problem.. Im going to demo the 184 katana when i get a chance.
    Last edited by vailszendrei; 02-11-2014 at 11:28 PM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Nor Cal
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    15,621
    I own the Cochise (185) and Kendo and have skied the Brahma. Cochise wins hands down - no contest - when it comes to crud busting. Brahma is not really that similar at all.

    Have not skied the Katana.

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