'Intelligent mountain rescue app'

[rob stokes]

http://www.isis-application.com/en/

Thoughts?

[summit]

Hey Rob! How is life?

This app... is a HORRIBLE idea for too many reasons to list.

[Arno]

Can see it having more application in Yurp where areas between the groomers aren't patrolled or necessarily made safe. reliance on text messages makes it very limited for backcountry use. there are plenty of places even in resorts where mobile reception is patchy

so, yeah, I won't be dumping my beacon just yet

[LC]

Is it available for a Nokia 7250i, circa 2003?

[rob stokes]

Yeah Lorne.....my phone won't do any of this fancy pants internet stuff ether!~

Hey Summit, how's it going? I'm living up in Whistler now, let me know if you ever come up this way, we should ski again!

My initial thought was that the app is surely stupid, but with Cham patrollers backing it, surely it can't be useless. I mean, its obviously not a replacement for a avi trancever, but another tool worth having.

Has anyone here actually had a play with it?

[Hugh Conway]

My initial thought was that the app is surely stupid, but with Cham patrollers backing it, surely it can't be useless. I mean, its obviously not a replacement for a avi trancever, but another tool worth having.

For onpiste or non-avy offpiste injuries something that does this:

iSis delivers precise localisation during the search phase, GPS co-ordinates and distance information to within just a few cm of the casualty.

could be quite useful.

[saxon]

I could easily convince all my buddies to install such an app on their phones if it costs less than $10. I can't convince them to buy beacons for the kind of riding they do (inbounds only). I really don't think it's a horrible idea. People are always going to argue things like this are terrible ideas, but you could make the same arguments about beacons. Without training and awareness of what you're doing they're all pretty useless.

Going beyond this, if I could use my phone to see their phone's precise location on request that would be supremely bad-ass. For where I ski this would be more useful for situations where I worry about tree wells and have lost track of my buddy. Actually:

http://tasker.wikidot.com/locatephone

[summit]

The problem, in a word, is UNRELIABLE. A phone is not durable, is often stored poorly in an out layer and the battery dies quickly in the cold (and GPS is a battery sucker), plus GPS and phone signal don't work well through very much snow, especially when presented with poor/no signal areas in the mountains. It will take very large amounts of education to make the end user understand these limitations, the type of consumer education that will be rejected by the type of people who don't want to pay for an avalanche course or beacon. From the human factors standpoint, the nature of this app is far more likely to increase risk because the exposure mitigation will be outweighed by the user increasing their hazard because of false perceptions about their limited and unreliable solution.

For similar reasons, this forum formed an e-lynch mob over the "send only beacon" guy.

Hey Summit, how's it going? I'm living up in Whistler now, let me know if you ever come up this way, we should ski again!

Absolutely! And if you ever come to CO, we should ski... and have you checked up by a doctor for choosing to leave Whistler to visit CO.

[smslavin]

The problem, in a word, is UNRELIABLE. A phone is not durable, is often stored poorly in an out layer and the battery dies quickly in the cold (and GPS is a battery sucker), plus GPS and phone signal don't work well through very much snow, especially when presented with poor/no signal areas in the mountains.

just to argue the flip side, what if you combined it with a bad elf unit? i can't tell if the app would work with one but you'd get way better gps and you aren't reliant on a cell provider for position status. just a thought.

[summit]

^getting close to the price of a cheap beacon or PLB, looks highly likely to break off in a slide (or use more battery if you use the bluethooth), still limited by cell reception to tell other phones your location, temp/battery life still comes into play, and snow still attenuates cell and GPS signals.

[Hugh Conway]

The problem, in a word, is UNRELIABLE. A phone is not durable, is often stored poorly in an out layer and the battery dies quickly in the cold (and GPS is a battery sucker), plus GPS and phone signal don't work well through very much snow, especially when presented with poor/no signal areas in the mountains. It will take very large amounts of education to make the end user understand these limitations, the type of consumer education that will be rejected by the type of people who don't want to pay for an avalanche course or beacon. From the human factors standpoint, the nature of this app is far more likely to increase risk because the exposure mitigation will be outweighed by the user increasing their hazard because of false perceptions about their limited and unreliable solution.

What part of most on-piste skiers aren't using a beacon don't you understand? Even in brohemia Chamonix there's well more piste gapers than broheim. So instead of having someone call them on the phone (one of the standard ways to contact the rescue service in the Alps) you have someone contact them via a phone with a GPS signal!

This forum formed a lynch mob because it's a bunch of narcissistic posturing fucktards.

[userA]

i think the forum got it correct when the dog beacon idea surfaced, so not total losers.
bF

[TBS]

So I just played with it a bit. I say "a bit" because i wasn't willing to pay their subscription fees to turn on the features (other than call 911 with Lat/long) - the plans cost
$6.99 per week
$54.99 for six months, or
$89.99 for a year.


They are trying to turn an iPhone into an ELB. Thing is there are too many hardware limitations for mountain travel.

The app requires a phone or wifi connection to communicate location.

IPhone GPS accuracy is at best 3 meters, on a good day. Add clouds & snow and accuracy degrades quickly.

If you send an SOS, only emergency services and those with a valid iSis subscription located within 1000 feet of you will ever know. Assuming of course you have a cell signal or are near a wifi hotspot when you need help.

Didn't test the auto-alert feature, because it wasn't worth paying $6.99 to throw my phone down some flights of stairs. Common sense tells me this function will trigger a lot of emergency call outs when somebody drops their phone off a chair lift.

Anybody know how emergency services handle incoming text messages saying "I've fallen and can't get up. Send help to these GPS coordinates. Heres my home addy and emergency contact info. im 6' tall and 220 lbs. my blood type is O+ but im unconscious or incapacitated so can't say whether i need blood or any other medical assistance. I'm allergic to patchouli and tofu. Looking forward to seeing you soon! Love, Telebobski." Because they force you to enter all that info in your profile, where they store it securely I'm sure.

NFW I would EVER trust anyone's life to a Bluetooth connection. Although it probably won't matter- the probability of you being within 1000 feet of another iSis subscriber when you need help is likely worse than Bluetooth reliability.

Setting aside the accuracy issue for a minute, what good is the locator function if people in the vicinity aren't carrying shovel &probe to dig you out?

Here's my iPhone ELB - http://www.appholic.cc/navigation/i-...k-come-find-me
Was free when I got it. Same features as iSIS except for the auto alert, and I can choose who I want to alert. And no subscription needed.

FWIW Wild Snow reviewed an iPhone beacon app way back in 2009. http://www.wildsnow.com/1773/avi-the...on-for-iphone/

[iSis_app]

iSis faces many issues that have been mentioned in this post.

For over three years the application iSis is continually test with the help of various relief agencies and ski areas.

Far from wanting to replace the DVA iSis is an additional means of security for all mountain activities (skiing, trail running, cycling, paragliding ...). Certe common with a DVA (although we do not use 457 kHz) ---> one to locate a buried person.
iSis brings a large number of unknown functions that are not only for the avalanche.

---- >> iSis The application is an addition for all mountain activities and must not forget that the best protection is the respect of the safety and possess the equipment needed relief snowy area: DVA SHOVEL + + PROBE and training.


LOCATION:

The location is a key element in an emergency, and is the first iSis functionality.
The iPhone 4S and 5 have the opportunity to be connected to GPS (U.S.) but also GLONASS (Russian GPS) that provide them with better accuracy. How iSis interacts with the GPS chip can collect better data.

With regard to issue under the snow that posed no problems, an accuracy of 10 to 15 m is obtained in 1.80m snow.

-> "More of a victim buried in two (60%) is less than a meter deep,
and three is less than half a meter from the surface of the snow. "

Within 5 meters of snow, sorry but I'm not a magician. And even if the lease could be another problem would be the time shoveling.



Accident detection:

iSis analysis continues the path of practicing with the accelerometer and the GYRO, which allows us to deduce the forces exerted on the carrier iSis (G cashed, rotation, speed, free fall ...). For reasons that you understand I will not reveal our various filters detections.

But a difference is detected by iSis between taking in an avalanche and the person who skips a rock bar and magnifying glass at the reception.
False alarms have been taken into account when developing this is why a sound is eminent (+ buzzer) when issuing an alert.

This a double advantage:

- Easily cancel false alarms
- Reassure a person that his warning is transmitted

I would be lying if I told you that Isis is able to detect all kinds of avalanches ... Faced with this simple and effective tip lies within the application. So be sure to catch all in an avalanche iSis will issue a distress signal (via bluetooth or alert the DATA network).


Bluetooth 2.0 and 4.0:

Much work has been done on Bluetooth within iSis. Compare it to other applications using this technology is simply absurd. How we activate issue is totally different from standard applications. And yes the 2.0 and 4.0 are fine technologies permettes more than a simple connection to a Bluetooth headset.

Yes snow interferes with the signal, but not enough to stop a proximity search -> in the circle of inaccuracy of GPS

A search without a network with an iPhone is buried effective within 40-50m. (Larger than the circle imprecision GPS)
Bluetooth allows us a connection between two iPhones and thus share a lot of information. Then we define the position of the victim enough to probe (with the application of a SYSTEM CROSS).


History:

The history helps guide help if the phone does not have access to the network at the time of impact and thus complete a research area on DVA or Bluetooth.
If, against the phone has no battery, then the GPS point of impact or its history is accessible through our servers.


Routing alert:

Access to the internet service (EDGE / 3G / 4G) to send alert.

Each alert is sent:

- Your three favorite VIA application
- Relief agencies (PGHM / CRS and soon 112) if they are equipped
VIA application, website, stationary or mobile
- At the security of the ski area where you operate
VIA application, website, stationary and mobile ---> but also on the iPhone ski patrollers for faster response.

For relief agencies, and ski areas iSis its many tools are available free of charge.


And not sending automatic SMS is not allowed on iOS (damage). The crafty (developers) sent messages surcharged in the back of clients. But we are in discussion with Apple on this. The SMS would have a better chance of success.

---> All witnesses to an accident (not being favorites of the victim or rescue organization or station) can retrieve information from the victim around with "search victims" button, if the network permits. Otherwise it will return to a more traditional method with the Bluetooth search.

- Bluetooth capture of the victim (range 40-50m)
- Connection = exchange of GPS positions between two iPhones
- Go to the circle of inaccuracy of GPS with compass
- And make the fine research in applying the system cross

The manual is alert to me the alert function that will be used most. (No language barrier, information provided quality, location ...).

HIGHLIGHT:

- An alert issued AUTOMATIC quickly without human intervention
- Manual Alert
- An information transmission characteristics (location, number for easy call against, record customer ...)
- A specific search with or WITHOUT network (Bluetooth)
- Access (Android and Blackberry are under study)
- Search Long distance = GPS + Compass
- Price
- Visualization of X person buried
- To organize the real-time backup (iSis prevents two rescuers looking for the same victim / / display alerts as card, and can move on to the nearest person)


LOW POINT (+ answers):

- Network coverage (with the arrival of Free Mobile and 4G, the uncovered areas decreased continuously)
- Handling of the iPhone with gloves, not top this is true ---> (http://www.gants-tactiles.com/)
- Autonomy often compared to a DVA (we did not use the same between these two boxes WARNING) history backup your GPS 48 points. Test: iPhone 5 + iSis (only) one and a half meters of snow = 21h



---- >> iSis The application is an addition for all mountain activities and must not forget that the best protection is the observance of safety. And possess the necessary emergency equipment in snowy area: DVA SHOVEL + + PROBE and training.

[iSis_app]

I hope that answers your questions.

For people willing to test iSis FREE, a request within 48 hours and send a specific code for the occasion.

CONTACT@NEXTINOV.COM

[summit]

You can put a wedding dress on a pig, but you are still marrying a pig.

Moreover: your product is not cost competitive with other similar Apps or reliable sat rescue messenger products like PLBs, Spot, DeLorme etc.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

Relying on a smartphone app to save yourself in the backcountry is a rookie move! It seems that you never have service when you really need it.

[::: :::]

Here's my iPhone ELB - http://www.appholic.cc/navigation/i-...k-come-find-me
Was free when I got it. Same features as iSIS except for the auto alert, and I can choose who I want to alert. And no subscription needed.

and multi-purpose for apres
or cougar hunts gone wrong

[TBS]

ISis_App - I will take you up on the offer to test/review ISis. Check your email inbox.

[TBS]

and multi-purpose for apres
or cougar hunts gone wrong

Never thought about the cougar use case - been married too long I guess.

"Help, come get me before I go Aaron Ralston!"

[anddrivew]

Intelligence is the most favorite word I ever like. I look great and reasonable discussion.

[TBS]

OK, I now have two codes for downloading the full app. Trouble is, iSis only works with iPhone 4S and 5 - guessing Bluetooth 4 is necessary. I only have an iPhone 4S, iPhone 3 and an iPad for testing.

Will test the avalanche auto alert function later this week. Any PDX mags with an iPhone 4S or 5 want to help me try out the notification/tracking features?

[::: :::]

i just have a 4, not 4s
sorry

[TBS]

My analysis and conclusions after testing iSis...
---------------------
The iSis Intelligent Mountain Rescue System is designed to provide an automatic alert to emergency services and other iSis users in the event of an avalanche or accident. Development involved three years of work in collaboration with the PGHM (Peloton de Gendarmerie de Haute-Montagne).

Use Cases and Marketing Claims
There are two basic use cases.

1)If you are caught in an avalanche or become incapacitated,

a)“iSis takes care of everything, you have no actions to perform. Emergency services and all iSis users in the area are automatically alerted.” Their proprietary “Real Time Trajectory Analysis System” “automatically Detects Free Fall”. This feature likely uses inputs from the iPhone’s gimbals and accelerometers. There is a notice in the app saying “ATTENTION: Bluetooth must be activated. When scanning, Bluetooth may require a reboot.”

b)"Send a manual alert: Slide to send a manual alert. Emergency services and preregistered favourites are alerted.”

2)“You’re witness to an avalanche. Use the scan function with one click. You will receive the information relevant to those buried and can then assist. Note: Bluetooth must be activated to work.” They claim the ability to detect another device 45 meters away and follow it to within a few centimeters of the other's location.

Their video at http://www.isis-application.com/en/ shows a simulation of people using iSis to locate a buried skier, using the same basic methods used with an avalanche transceiver. The app uses Bluetooth to detect proximity to a victim, and either wifi or cellular signal to communicate alerts with emergency services and other users. The developers note that iSis is “not a magic shield” - Users are encouraged to respect safety guidelines and carry emergency equipment (shovel, DVA) in addition to iSis.

Requirements for Use
•The app is free for download, but use of the claimed features requires users purchase an in-app subscription at the following prices:
o $6.99 per week,
o $54.99 for six months, or
o $89.99 for a year.

•iSis only runs on iPhone 4S and 5. The developers did not respond to my question regarding this limitation. Apple upgraded from Bluetooth 2.x to 4 with the iPHone 4S, so this may be the reason.

•All iPhones must be “paired” via Bluetooth before they will communicate – much in the same way as we do with beacon checks at the trailhead.

•The “pre-registered favourites” need an iSis subscription to receive alerts.

•A usable cellular or wifi signal is necessary to communicate alerts.

•Before use (and before purchasing a subscription) the app must be populated with user name, DOB, physical address, two phone numbers (with country codes), nationality, email addy, iSis account password, allergies, blood type, height and weight. There is no data validation on any field. No telephone country code is provided for the USA, but the code for its largest colony (Canada) worked just fine for me. Users can disconnect or delete their profile. The developers provide no information about their user data security precautions, but I doubt they provide SSAE 16 attestation.

The Limitations of iPhone Technology
While the marketing claims sound great, the reality is limited by current technology. For example:

•iPhone GPS accuracy is at best 3 meters, on a good day. Clouds & snow degrade accuracy.

•Effective Bluetooth range is only about 10 meters for smartphones (See http://www.bluetooth.com/pages/basics.aspx) not the 45 meters claimed by iSis.

•Water seriously impairs Bluetooth signal strength. This is one reason people occasionally lose the connection between a Bluetooth headset in their left ear and the cell phone in their right pocket - the water in their body cuts effective range to about one meter. What does that tell you about using Bluetooth to find someone buried in snow?

•I get no more than three hours of battery life when my iPhone 4S is stored in a base layer pocket on a winter day with location services (GPS) running. And while an iPhone is reasonably rugged (it’s tougher than two of my ribs for example), a real avy beacon is several orders of magnitude more durable and water resistant.

Testing
iSis provided me two promo codes. I used my own iPhone 4S and borrowed an iPhone 5 from the Mobile Portland Test Lab (Thanks Megan!). The lab was not wild about my taking their device off premise (especially when I explained my test methodology), so I simulated conditions in a downtown office building. Both devices showed strong cell and wifi signals throughout these drills.

Populating the required user information took about three minutes per device. After pairing the two phones via Bluetooth at close range, I set one down and walked away with the other to determine effective range. The connection failed at about 40 feet indoors - better than the Bluetooth design spec but way short of the 45 meter range iSis claims.

Swiping the manual alert button on my 4S alerted the iPhone 5 in all three attempts – just as advertised. The Bluetooth pairing failed on two of these three tests, and I couldn’t re-pair (yes I tried rebooting). When the connection didn’t fail, the pinging and directional signal led me to the other device about 30 feet away. The directions assume a direct line – no routing around cliffs or other terrain features.

I then tested the Real Time Trajectory Analysis System. After making sure the devices were paired, I put my Ballistic HC-clad iPhone 4s inside a nerf football, closed it with duct tape, and tossed the football down this staircase hard enough to make it bounce at least 6 times before the bottom. Note slope angle (and shameless product placement).



My iPhone survived all four trips down the stairs, but the auto-alert failed in every case. I’m not surprised - There are just too many ways a person can slide, tumble, bounce off solid objects and fly off cliffs to come up with some sort of useful avalanche detection algorithm. I would also be amazed if their algorithms could discern between someone buried in an avalanche versus your garden variety tomahawk versus dropping their phone off the chair. I see great opportunities for false positive readings in addition to not alerting during real accidents.

I did not test any emergency service notification functionality.

Conclusions
A business partner once said “the difference between software sales and marketing people is that the sales people know when they are lying”. Here’s what iSis REALLY offers for $7/week or $90/year.

IF you or someone near you is caught in an avalanche or gets injured,
AND
• Victim’s iPhone still operates, AND
• Victim can activate the manual alert button (because auto-alert doesn't work) on their phone, AND
• Victims and rescuers all have wifi or a decent cell signal, AND
• There isn't much water between the victim and rescuers, AND
• Victim and rescuers all have an iPhone 4S or 5 with a current subscription to iSis, AND
• The victim’s and rescuers’ devices were all previously paired with each other, AND
• The accident happens early enough that no one’s iPhone batteries have run down, AND
• Bluetooth pairings don’t fail because devices got separated by more than ~30 feet (less in snow/rain), AND
• Rescuers hear their phone beep an alert and respond…

THEN you might get rescued in time. Otherwise, it seems to me you are SOL

With the prices iSis charges, I wouldn't bank on having a tremendous number of subscribers out there ready to assist someone who has fallen and can't get up.

As an alternative to everybody having this app, how about we travel with at least one other person and we all carry a beacon, shovel, probe skills for partner rescue, and a powered-down cell phone. Then, if in cell range once rescuers extricate the victim, confirm ABC and assess injuries, someone can power up their phone and call 911.

The choice is yours...