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  1. #101
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    Terrible news, so sorry to everyone involved. RIP

  2. #102
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    RIP to the deceased, condolences to the family and friends.


    Quote Originally Posted by DasBlunt View Post
    In regards to CAIC saying anything, "Considerable" as a warning, seems vague and half-hearted for this sort of massive event, and also for the rapid heating and cooling we experienced the past 12 days.. Just a humble observation/statement and in no way intended to shift any blame.
    If all you are getting from the CAIC is "considerable", then you aren't using the resource appropriately. There are 5 levels on the scale, and they are not at all designed to encapsulate every detail of the forecast, how could they? If you read the forecast, if you even know what the word considerable is supposed to represent in the forecast, then you'd see that there was nothing "vague and half-hearted" in the forecast.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DasBlunt View Post
    In regards to CAIC saying anything, "Considerable" as a warning, seems vague and half-hearted for this sort of massive event, and also for the rapid heating and cooling we experienced the past 12 days.. Just a humble observation/statement and in no way intended to shift any blame.
    If all you're really reading in the forecast is the word they're using to describe the snowpack then think long and hard about what the word 'considerable' means. Cause to me that's a pretty serious word that carries a lot of weight when your life could be on the line.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by telemike View Post
    I can't imagine how Jerome feels...

    But this us part if the game. It ain't golf or tennis or some shit. It's playing with fucking fire. You and or your bestbuddy/wife/husband/kid/etc could get seriously fucked up or die. Some of us have had conversations about the reality with those we love - some have not. Some us us will only hang it out there in avalanche terrain with others we know and love and trust with our lives. My six year old son knows he or I or his mom or people we love could die doing what we love - skiing.

    If any of this is new to you, you might want to think about what you're doing. Ask yourself if you are ready to die skiing. Ask your partners. If you are not ready for fucking reality, you might want to dial it back a bit or take up knitting.

    If you are down with reality based life as a backcountry skier, you should get some avalanche and medical training.

    PTSD is real. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

    I'm talking about Pre Traumatic Stress Discussion.

    Aw fuck. Rambling....
    I personally Don't want to get into a lot of this discussion here, now...but great post.
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    I couldn't give a fuck, but today I am procrastinating so TGR is my filler.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgnar View Post
    Fuck you. What do you know. Stay inside. Leave TGR, because what do you have to contibute if you don't want to live a full life.

    And I just left a bar where friends of one of the deceased were mourning. I've known death, and I don't care to see it again, but goddamnit, death is the only thing you can count on in life. So fuck your bullshit. Live life how you want. You know what makes skiing/snowboarding/mountain biking/rock climibing/ what ever 'extreme sport' you want to talk about fun? That risk. That chance that you might not make it out unscathed. But the truth of that matter is, as dangerous as people perceive all those sports to be, nothing is more dangerous than getting in your car to go to work each morning.

    So fuck you.
    I agree completely with the getting in your car business. I had a random car spin a 360 right in front of me on Swan Mountain Road this winter, and it was dry! People take it for granted. I need to try to live in Breck next winter and walk, walk, walk.

    But I am responding here to say that I do not find climbing and skiing fun because of the danger. Personally. I love to climb, to breathe deep, to be out in the wilderness, to be at the top, to plot out a route, evaluate the snow, engage with the mountain, with the real world. So much to love. I ski just about every day, I love it so very much. The adrenaline, I can live without it. Personally.

    While I fear and dread the chance of dying in a slide or even going down inbounds from cranking down a groomer and beatering into the woods (which happens plenty), I would rather die skiing than spend my life in a padded room. To me that's only half living. I must be outside doing my snow dance.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by HikeforTurns View Post
    You make some valid points, this wasn't one of them.


    I am glad to have met Rick Gaukel. I spent a couple great days in Rocky Mountain National Park with him, pursuing our mutual passion. He was stoked to be alive, and like many of us, achieved that feeling through his experiences in the mountains. Rick passed away yesterday in an avalanche. You will be missed, Goodbye Rick.

    "To those who have struggled with them, the mountains reveal beauties that they will not disclose to those who make no effort. That is the reward the mountains give to effort. And it is because they have so much to give and give it so lavishly to those who will wrestle with them that men love the mountains and go back to them again and again. The mountains reserve their choice gifts for those who stand upon their summits." ó Sir Francis Younghusband.
    Condolences.

    Thanks for posting those fine words and pictures.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  7. #107
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    The problem with training and and experience and knowledge is that in the end, human beings are just too good at rationalizing what they want to do. Looking up at a beautiful powder slope, the expert uses their knowledge of avalanches to come up with reasons why it's ok. And it's not weakness of character or a flaw in that one individual. It's a flaw in the human brain--and it applies to all facets of life--love, politics, religion, and skiing. And it doesn't just apply to taking risks. Timid person that I am I often rationalize why I'm NOT doing something. We do what we want and THEN make reasons to justify it, and we can't guard against it because we can't see that we're doing it. Like that experiment where you're supposed to count the number of times a basketball is passed and don't notice the guy in the gorilla suit. It's amazing what the mind can ignore. And just like we all drive more carefully after we pass a wreck, and then go back to our same old reckless driving, I wouldn't be surprised if ate'em is back in the BC next season.

    As far as driving goes, it is dangerous because we do it so much, not because each individual drive we take is that dangerous. which is why so many experts get killed by avalanches, as icelantic skier pointed out.

    These are general comments, not about this incident in particular, which I don't know nearly enough about.

  8. #108
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    I’m almost laughing at the garbage I hear. It’s so easy to sit back and assume you know better, that you know what happened, that you were there. The bottom line is no third fourth or fifth hand report from some friend, or some article in the paper or a detailed avalanche report will give you the ability to sit back and speculate about what happened. What it was like and what was going through peoples heads.
    Something bad happened and a lot of people have been affected. It’s easy to sit behind the computer and assume that you know how it feels. But you don’t. No one other than the dead people, their families, and the people who showed up on the scene within the first few moments know what happened or how it really feels.
    Many of the people who hang out on this forum thrive on risk. But we all need to step back and understand that 98% of the rest of the population takes no risk in life other than getting up in the morning. Most people are dead inside by the time they reach age thirty. Life is over and you just coast. Going big, skiing, shredding, is a huge rush to most of us, HUGE. Something you just don’t go out and explain to anyone else easily. They don’t get it.
    Everyone assumes that the dumb kid up on Loveland pass is the one who is going to eat it. While the educated prepared guy is invincible. I guess it’s not the way it works. I was that dumb kid up on the pass for years with no equipment, no knowledge, pulling big lines without a care in the world. I always laugh when someone gets on their high horse and talks about telling the idiots that they know better. That you should take a class, have becon blah blah blah. Back then if someone told me that you know better me, I would have told you to fuck off and then punched you in the face for being a bitch. But after a friend died in a freak November avalanche close to twenty years ago you start to rethink things.
    Everyone will continue to take some risk after this weekend. I will. But just don’t assume you know what it’s like till you’re the guy, buried alive, buried dead, or digging. You don’t.

  9. #109
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    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    Iím almost laughing at the garbage I hear. Itís so easy to sit back and assume you know better, that you know what happened, that you were there. The bottom line is no third fourth or fifth hand report from some friend, or some article in the paper or a detailed avalanche report will give you the ability to sit back and speculate about what happened. What it was like and what was going through peoples heads.
    Something bad happened and a lot of people have been affected. Itís easy to sit behind the computer and assume that you know how it feels. But you donít. No one other than the dead people, their families, and the people who showed up on the scene within the first few moments know what happened or how it really feels.
    Many of the people who hang out on this forum thrive on risk. But we all need to step back and understand that 98% of the rest of the population takes no risk in life other than getting up in the morning. Most people are dead inside by the time they reach age thirty. Life is over and you just coast. Going big, skiing, shredding, is a huge rush to most of us, HUGE. Something you just donít go out and explain to anyone else easily. They donít get it.
    Everyone assumes that the dumb kid up on Loveland pass is the one who is going to eat it. While the educated prepared guy is invincible. I guess itís not the way it works. I was that dumb kid up on the pass for years with no equipment, no knowledge, pulling big lines without a care in the world. I always laugh when someone gets on their high horse and talks about telling the idiots that they know better. That you should take a class, have becon blah blah blah. Back then if someone told me that you know better me, I would have told you to fuck off and then punched you in the face for being a bitch. But after a friend died in a freak November avalanche close to twenty years ago you start to rethink things.
    Everyone will continue to take some risk after this weekend. I will. But just donít assume you know what itís like till youíre the guy, buried alive, buried dead, or digging. You donít.
    As I have had friends pass in similar tragedies, I've become convinced in the end it is just luck. I've done really stupid things and come away unscathed. I've had friends with great knowledge perish. You can and should learn from these events, but don't judge those who lost their lives while making a choice to charge a great line. They made the choice and in this circumstance they were very unlucky. Be there for their frinds and family. Remember that family members may read this.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastfred View Post
    I’m almost laughing at the garbage I hear. It’s so easy to sit back and assume you know better, that you know what happened, that you were there. The bottom line is no third fourth or fifth hand report from some friend, or some article in the paper or a detailed avalanche report will give you the ability to sit back and speculate about what happened. What it was like and what was going through peoples heads.
    Something bad happened and a lot of people have been affected. It’s easy to sit behind the computer and assume that you know how it feels. But you don’t. No one other than the dead people, their families, and the people who showed up on the scene within the first few moments know what happened or how it really feels.
    Many of the people who hang out on this forum thrive on risk. But we all need to step back and understand that 98% of the rest of the population takes no risk in life other than getting up in the morning. Most people are dead inside by the time they reach age thirty. Life is over and you just coast. Going big, skiing, shredding, is a huge rush to most of us, HUGE. Something you just don’t go out and explain to anyone else easily. They don’t get it.
    Everyone assumes that the dumb kid up on Loveland pass is the one who is going to eat it. While the educated prepared guy is invincible. I guess it’s not the way it works. I was that dumb kid up on the pass for years with no equipment, no knowledge, pulling big lines without a care in the world. I always laugh when someone gets on their high horse and talks about telling the idiots that they know better. That you should take a class, have becon blah blah blah. Back then if someone told me that you know better me, I would have told you to fuck off and then punched you in the face for being a bitch. But after a friend died in a freak November avalanche close to twenty years ago you start to rethink things.
    Everyone will continue to take some risk after this weekend. I will. But just don’t assume you know what it’s like till you’re the guy, buried alive, buried dead, or digging. You don’t.
    I'm not sure what thread you were reading, but I didn't see any of the type of "garbage" that you refer to in here

    It's no suprise to anyone here that this sport we love carries a very high degree of risk, and it always will. The "driving in a car" argument to me is total bullshit. Yes we all could die while crossing the street, or from a meteor that could crash through the roof and strike us in the head, but the reality is that the relative risk of backcountry skiing is much higher that these other mundane activities. These guys knew fully the risks that they were taking, and unfortunately that day was their day. If you are not aware of the indisputable fact that you are putting your life on the line EVERY time you travel in avalanche terrain, then you should not be out there. I could not agree more with telemike's comment "Ask yourself if you are ready to die backcountry skiing." If you cannot ask yourself this question, then you are not being real with yourself.

    RIP Ian, Chris, Rick, Joe, and Ryan.

  11. #111
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    Such a shitty week, I honestly don't think I've ever heard such a string of bad news in 1 week. So sad especially for the loved ones left grieving and the kids that won't have a father growing up. Hopefully this will be a huge red flag to anyone considering going into the back country from here on out! I was on vail pass during last thursdays tragic event and that was enough for me to stay on low angle west facing slopes and who knows if that is even enough. At this point I think I'm going to give it a while since it keeps snowing and I can only imagine avalanche conditions are only getting worse.

    Colorado season clips 10-11, best season ever!


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  12. #112
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    Lou discusses group size and protocols. Intersting points:
    http://www.wildsnow.com/9930/sheep-c...land-colorado/
    Donít give up until.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatspicy View Post
    If you are not aware of the indisputable fact that you are putting your life on the line EVERY time you travel in avalanche terrain, then you should not be out there.
    Given that the rose is not red, respectfully have to disagree with this one. If you know a place very well, it's not that hard to stay out from under a known avalanche path if you choose to. Where you decide to walk or ski on any given day is a big choice you make and every bit of terrain is unique with different associated risks. Well maybe by avalanche terrain you are not imeaning the entire concept of traveling outside a ski area and only including terrain with pitches above 30, etc.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  14. #114
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    Is it assumed they were ascending or is that a first party account?

  15. #115
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    it has been reported first hand that all had their skins on; and were apparently crossing under the path 1 at a time but with three grouped close together (again apparently, since the three were found in a group).
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  16. #116
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    I guess there is no sense in tragedy.

    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    it has been reported first hand that all had their skins on; and were apparently crossing under the path 1 at a time but with three grouped close together (again apparently, since the three were found in a group).
    Thanks. Something doesn't make sense. I've only been down that about 5 times before, but that is a strange place to be going up? A childhood friend was part of a group that lost one in that gully in the early 90's.

    Really sucks

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgnar View Post
    Fuck you. What do you know. Stay inside. Leave TGR, because what do you have to contibute if you don't want to live a full life.

    And I just left a bar where friends of one of the deceased were mourning. I've known death, and I don't care to see it again, but goddamnit, death is the only thing you can count on in life. So fuck your bullshit. Live life how you want. You know what makes skiing/snowboarding/mountain biking/rock climibing/ what ever 'extreme sport' you want to talk about fun? That risk. That chance that you might not make it out unscathed. But the truth of that matter is, as dangerous as people perceive all those sports to be, nothing is more dangerous than getting in your car to go to work each morning.

    So fuck you.
    I'm not sure death makes these things fun. Maybe for some people, but not me. I'll tell you... backcountry skiing would be a lot more fun if I knew I could make powder turns down a big face in some remote area and come home safely every single time.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheRa View Post
    But I am responding here to say that I do not find climbing and skiing fun because of the danger.
    This. I like to ski, I've been doing it a long time, and honestly, there is nothing more fun than skiing fast in deep snow in steep terrain. In order to really do that, you need to accept a certain amount of risk and give up a certain amount of control. But, while I love and have committed a major part of my life to something as risky as skiing, I HATE that it has to carry so much risk. It puts skiing in conflict with every other major responsibilty I have. If I could have the fun without the risk, I would choose that in a minute. But I can't, and I'm selfish, so I keep trying to walk that fine line.

    Anything that gives as much joy to people as skiing does is worth a certain amount of risk, and how much risk is a personal decision. But I think being out there FOR the risk, first and foremost, is insane. Risk is something we need to mitigate to do the things we love. If all you want is risk, take up russian roulette.
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    We is got a good military, maybe cause some kids get to shooting sports early here.

  19. #119
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    Even the most "experienced" make mistakes.

    From Wildsnow:

    "The exact goal for their day isn’t important. No matter what the Sheep Creek group was doing, a fatal accident of this magnitude indicates an obvious breakdown in standard avalanche accident prevention techniques. Mainly, simultaneously exposing fewer people at a time to hazard. Also, avalanche hazard for the day was rated considerable and the slope the group was exposed to was the type the state avalanche center was cautioning about. In other words, due to the consequences it is fair and axiomatic to say the group was gang skiing (probably uphill) — while exposed to an obviously hazardous and known avalanche slope."
    Last edited by funkendrenchman; 04-22-2013 at 10:34 AM.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada1 View Post
    Thanks. Something doesn't make sense. I've only been down that about 5 times before, but that is a strange place to be going up?
    The WildSnow link above tries to make some light of this.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by PappaG View Post
    The WildSnow link above tries to make some light of this.
    I saw that. It's easier to walk out the ridge than up that face. It's easier to ski down to the parking lot than make short laps and climb. Heck, it could be they just wanted a work out. Regardless, it happened. That crown and the pictures of the vail pass crown are full on frightening.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada1 View Post
    Thanks. Something doesn't make sense. I've only been down that about 5 times before, but that is a strange place to be going up? A childhood friend was part of a group that lost one in that gully in the early 90's.

    Really sucks
    Didn't make much sense to me either. Go up a terrain trap immediately below a large slide path on a considerable day, with large destructive avalanches occurring all week long? Hopefully the CAIC report will shed some light on this. I wonder if they even knew where they were? I doubt any pre-trip planning took place, as that likely would have eliminated their route from being a reasonable choice. Just looking at the topo should have done that.

    CAIC was out there yesterday, so I guess we'll find out soon enough.

  23. #123
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    I'm finding the philosophical soul searching interesting... things to reconsider? Always reexamine...

    Quote Originally Posted by funkendrenchman View Post
    From Wildsnow:

    "The exact goal for their day isnít important. No matter what the Sheep Creek group was doing, a fatal accident of this magnitude indicates an obvious breakdown in standard avalanche accident prevention techniques. Mainly, simultaneously exposing fewer people at a time to hazard.
    This is as much as we can really say so far... most of those who really know what the deal was we are mourning for... there is but one who can enlighten us and I feel great sympathy for the pain they are enduring.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by icelanticskier View Post
    the more ya know, the more ya go, the more comfortable ya get, and the easier it is to become more complacent.
    ^ Yep.

    Much as it pains me to agree with him.

    Condolences to those who knew them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Didn't make much sense to me either. Go up a terrain trap immediately below a large slide path on a considerable day, with large destructive avalanches occurring all week long? Hopefully the CAIC report will shed some light on this. I wonder if they even knew where they were? I doubt any pre-trip planning took place, as that likely would have eliminated their route from being a reasonable choice. Just looking at the topo should have done that.

    CAIC was out there yesterday, so I guess we'll find out soon enough.
    This is, without of course firsthand knowledge of the groups discussion and planning, is the problem.

    All we can do is send positive vibes and condolences, remember friends lost and learn from events like this. I lost a great friend this week, this accident will reverberate and hopefully change the way users see these areas and react to CAIC reports.

    Spots on VP have been breaking loose most of the winter, a little at a time.

    As a fairly inexperienced back country traveler I often see riders and skinners in places I would never go, and know not to....


    This sadly seems to be repeated every season. Let's have a goal of NO MORE victims from slides, a zero tolerance for mistakes, a group dynamic code that will eliminate bad routes and sketchy choices.

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