A little line help please?

[Dickeymotto]

I have a Redington RS4 (9' 5wt) currently lined with Rio Gold (WF5F) and have a lot of trouble getting the rod to load inside of 30 feet. A lot of the fishing I do is up close and personal, with light dries and 6x tippet. Being unable to load the rod with less than 30 feet or so out really makes it difficult to present a light dry delicately and really hinders fishing. I really use this rod for everything right now, since a quiver is just not in the financial cards at the moment, and I really don't want to carry extra spools either. Throughout the year, this rod sees plenty of variety in fishing, lots of weighted nymphing during the summer, streamers in the fall, and very light dries during winter and spring. So my question is, what kind of line should I be running in order to accommodate all the different types of fishing it sees? Right now I feel the WF5F is excellent for fishing moderate dries (elk hair caddis, small hoppers, attractors) at medium distances (40-60 ft), and is also excellent with dry/dropper rigs. It is terrible up close, struggles to throw heavy nymph rigs, and really struggles with weighted streamers.

[snapt]

I hate to say it, but you've just described the RIO gold. Gold's are about a half size heavy to Afftma standards....I use a straight to size for big nymph rigs and streamer fishing no problem.
You could go to a RIO Grand which is a full size heavy and will nymph well, streamer fish, and fish dry up close. It's not exaxtly a delicate line for your winter bugs....

If the Gold isn't loading for you then neither will a GPX etc.

[neckdeep]

It is terrible up close, struggles to throw heavy nymph rigs, and really struggles with weighted streamers.

Maybe it is not the line. There's something contradictory about a line taper being both unable to get the rod to load within 30ft of handling line AND also redlining the rod's flex with heavy loads at distance. I use the same line as you for for all purposes on my 5wt, no problemo. My question for you would be: "has this rod performed to your satisfaction with a different line?" The notable thing here is that the Rio Gold is slightly overweight to help average casters load fast-action rods for the medium to close range fishing that typifys most trout anglers' casting scenarios. If it is not loading your rod at close range, that suggests your rod's blank is too stiff or has some issue with its damping or both. I had a $99 Redington pole ages ago, well before the company was acquired by Sage, and it had major damping issues and the rebound (the "boing") made the rod about the worst I've ever used. I could have used your quote to describe how it cast.

How well does the rod roll cast? Usually a rod blank that lacks close range finesse is no picnic to roll cast either. In regard to chucking weighted streamers, how much leader you use and it's taper plays a big part in how much you will struggle with that at long range, so that could be part of your problem putting a heavy streamer to the far bank.

[Dickeymotto]

I hate to say it, but you've just described the RIO gold. Gold's are about a half size heavy to Afftma standards....I use a straight to size for big nymph rigs and streamer fishing no problem.
You could go to a RIO Grand which is a full size heavy and will nymph well, streamer fish, and fish dry up close. It's not exaxtly a delicate line for your winter bugs....

If the Gold isn't loading for you then neither will a GPX etc.

I was thinking I would stay with Gold, but go up to a 6.

Maybe it is not the line. There's something contradictory about a line taper being both unable to get the rod to load within 30ft of handling line AND also redlining the rod's flex with heavy loads at distance. I use the same line as you for for all purposes on my 5wt, no problemo. My question for you would be: "has this rod performed to your satisfaction with a different line?" The notable thing here is that the Rio Gold is slightly overweight to help average casters load fast-action rods for the medium to close range fishing that typifys most trout anglers' casting scenarios. If it is not loading your rod at close range, that suggests your rod's blank is too stiff or has some issue with its damping or both. I had a $99 Redington pole ages ago, well before the company was acquired by Sage, and it had major damping issues and the rebound (the "boing") made the rod about the worst I've ever used. I could have used your quote to describe how it cast.

How well does the rod roll cast? Usually a rod blank that lacks close range finesse is no picnic to roll cast either. In regard to chucking weighted streamers, how much leader you use and it's taper plays a big part in how much you will struggle with that at long range, so that could be part of your problem putting a heavy streamer to the far bank.

When I say weighted streamers, I mean sculpzillas and other really heavy flies. I don't really see this as a 5 weight's domain, so this doesn't bother me that much. Same with heavy nymph rigs (in this case I'm referring to very heavily weighted bounce rigs), these seem more appropriate on a 6 weight rod. The lack of up close finesse bothers me a lot though. Once I get about 30 feet or more out, the rod is a dream to cast. The rod doesn't roll cast for shit. On streamers, I usually use a 6 foot salmon/steelhead leader.

[neckdeep]

When I say weighted streamers, I mean sculpzillas and other really heavy flies. I don't really see this as a 5 weight's domain, so this doesn't bother me that much. Same with heavy nymph rigs (in this case I'm referring to very heavily weighted bounce rigs), these seem more appropriate on a 6 weight rod. The lack of up close finesse bothers me a lot though. Once I get about 30 feet or more out, the rod is a dream to cast. The rod doesn't roll cast for shit. On streamers, I usually use a 6 foot salmon/steelhead leader.

Sounds like its simply too fast/stiff for in close work. Not much you can do for that except buy a medium-fast 4wt for up close finesse; honestly, you need one anyway cuz a 5wt is too much rod for a lot of situations and if its finesse you want, dropping a overweighted front taper near fish is the wrong way to go. I found I needed four rods to cover everything; a medium-fast 4, a fast yet very versatile 5, an extremely stiff 6 for heavy streamers w/ sinking line and a medium 8 for rollcasting/single hand spey for steelhead.

[Dickeymotto]

Sounds like its simply too fast/stiff for in close work. Not much you can do for that except buy a medium-fast 4wt for up close finesse; honestly, you need one anyway cuz a 5wt is too much rod for a lot of situations and if its finesse you want, dropping a overweighted front taper near fish is the wrong way to go. I found I needed four rods to cover everything; a medium-fast 4, a fast yet very versatile 5, an extremely stiff 6 for heavy streamers w/ sinking line and a medium 8 for rollcasting/single hand spey for steelhead.

Funny, I came to the exact same conclusion for a rod quiver. I've got the 5 and 8 weight, and want a softer 8' 4wt and I'm torn between a 9' or 10' 6 weight. I fish a lot of tiny creeks too though, so a 6' or 7' 2wt would be nice too.

It just seems to me that a 5 weight is kind of in limbo. It's not delicate enough for really small dry flies at close range and doesn't have enough guts for heavy nymphing/streamers. Feels like I can fish anywhere, just not do any of it particularly well. This is helping me figure out what my go to rig is on this rod: dry/dropper at medium distances.

[snapt]

Sounds like its simply too fast/stiff for in close work. Not much you can do for that except buy a medium-fast 4wt for up close finesse; honestly, you need one anyway cuz a 5wt is too much rod for a lot of situations and if its finesse you want, dropping a overweighted front taper near fish is the wrong way to go. I found I needed four rods to cover everything; a medium-fast 4, a fast yet very versatile 5, an extremely stiff 6 for heavy streamers w/ sinking line and a medium 8 for rollcasting/single hand spey for steelhead.

This be some good advice, I haven't consistently fished a 5 in years, but now living out here a fast 5 is my go to. Kind of weird. Back to lines, a certain fly shop in Oregon has prematurely listed a new fly line for late summer release from a certain manufacturer. It's just a hair heavier than the Gold, but lighter than the Grand. It's also fricking awesome, especially for fast rods and do it all fishing, best line I've ever fished.

[Rico in Flag]

This is why I really appreciate the good folks on TGR.
Thanks guys.

[steved]

If there's no line splash issue = a non-heavy #6 can work great....Rio Trout LT or Orvis non-stiff lines..etc. The tippet material for small patterns is something to pay attention to but today's stronger stuff is unreal!.. A light #6 can throw a nice slackline leader...just don't throw the loop into the water...keep it above. Sometimes doing the mentioned and relaxing more while setting the hook is all it takes...or using more of a slipstrike....just takes a little practice, every rod's different.
To the OP...in a #5 not being able to throw a big heavy nymph. That's why a #6 is something to have on the extra spool....imho.
EDIT(4/25)...However, as most know to do...just use the butt a little more to throw somethin' heavy with a #5 or whatever you've got at hand... Gotta do what'cha gotta do...
$.01

[DeathVan]

This be some good advice, I haven't consistently fished a 5 in years, but now living out here a fast 5 is my go to. Kind of weird. Back to lines, a certain fly shop in Oregon has prematurely listed a new fly line for late summer release from a certain manufacturer. It's just a hair heavier than the Gold, but lighter than the Grand. It's also fricking awesome, especially for fast rods and do it all fishing, best line I've ever fished.

I'm in the market for this, but I'm not savvy enough to figure out what you're saying.
-shoot me a PM, I won't spill any beans

Good thread, appreciated!

[mountaingoat]

I recently purchased a new Rio Gold WF5F as a replacement for the exact same line. It immediately felt odd casting and immediately the first 4'-5' of line just sunk as soon as I placed it on the water. I spent the day fighting with the line and mending was an impossible task.

Last week, I replaced it with the old line (same line) and it felt right and yes it sunk a little subsurface, expected being old, but not sinking a foot or two underwater with a few seconds.

I've never had a bad Rio line, but obviously this ones the exception, I'm sending it back for a replacement.

[snapt]

I recently purchased a new Rio Gold WF5F as a replacement for the exact same line. It immediately felt odd casting and immediately the first 4'-5' of line just sunk as soon as I placed it on the water. I spent the day fighting with the line and mending was an impossible task.

Last week, I replaced it with the old line (same line) and it felt right and yes it sunk a little subsurface, expected being old, but not sinking a foot or two underwater with a few seconds.

I've never had a bad Rio line, but obviously this ones the exception, I'm sending it back for a replacement.

Out of curiosity where'd you buy it? Send it back or bring it to the dealer, make sure the replacement is marked with Maxfloat. Tis very odd. If you have any issues pm me and I'll get you taken care of personally.

[steved]

I recently purchased a new Rio Gold WF5F as a replacement for the exact same line. It immediately felt odd casting and immediately the first 4'-5' of line just sunk as soon as I placed it on the water. I spent the day fighting with the line and mending was an impossible task.

Last week, I replaced it with the old line (same line) and it felt right and yes it sunk a little subsurface, expected being old, but not sinking a foot or two underwater with a few seconds.

I've never had a bad Rio line, but obviously this ones the exception, I'm sending it back for a replacement.

My $.01 guess would be the shop used it for rod demoing and thought it being bombproof a little too much....

[mountaingoat]

My $.01 guess would be the shop used it for rod demoing and thought it being bombproof a little too much....

To clarify, I wasn't posting my Rio issue as a rant, but to point out to Dickymoto that I had an issue with the exact line and that could be the same issue.

I've had the line replaced and loving the new Gold.

The line was brand new in the box. I will never know what the bizarre issue was, I assume the wrong density of plastimer some how made it into my line. Shit happens, it was a quality purchase and I was taken care in a quality manner.

[snapt]

Glad you're all set MTgoat, stuff does happen but no excuses. We have a really extensive QC process, surprised something sub par made it through.