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  1. #34801
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
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    19,219
    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    If you figure out how to get away with it, give us a TR.
    Just donít leave them in a bag by the side of the trail

  2. #34802
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,398
    Gee, this doesn't seem to be a smart biz move.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...ocid=undefined

    Wonder if the couple can past an updated review that they are being sued by the roofing company? Now, that would be just stating the facts.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  3. #34803
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    11,967
    Lost my new sunglasses. Theyíre around somewhere, I know it, but two weeks later still canít find em. Ugh.

  4. #34804
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    beaverhead county
    Posts
    4,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Name Redacted View Post
    Lost my new sunglasses. Theyíre around somewhere, I know it, but two weeks later still canít find em. Ugh.
    are they tgr optics?
    "somebody's gotta do it"

  5. #34805
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    10,743
    Getting surprise medical bills in the mail way after the fact. Had to visit a clinic and in an effort to try and AVOID surprise bills, I usually like to tell medical offices I'm self-paying and don't want them to go through my insurance (I'm high deductible so I'm pretty much ALWAYS on the hook for 100% the visit anyway). Checking out, they said it's X amount. Not cheap, but whatever. I pay in full. They say I'm good to go. A month later I get a bill for like an extra couple hundo. WTF? It was a quick in/out. So like 5 minutes with a PA these days and no treatment warrants a gazillion dollars apparently.

  6. #34806
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    11,504
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Getting surprise medical bills in the mail way after the fact. Had to visit a clinic and in an effort to try and AVOID surprise bills, I usually like to tell medical offices I'm self-paying and don't want them to go through my insurance (I'm high deductible so I'm pretty much ALWAYS on the hook for 100% the visit anyway).
    I think you're doing this wrong.

  7. #34807
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    inw
    Posts
    1,275
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    I think our health providers, insurance cos, legislators, regulators, and hospitals are doing this wrong.
    fify

  8. #34808
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    11,504
    Quote Originally Posted by ntblanks View Post
    fify
    Well... you'll get no argument from me on that front.

    But I suspect MF is, unsurprisingly, doing it wrong. On a personal level.

  9. #34809
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    16,799
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    I think you're doing this wrong.
    Seriously. That might be the most moronic thing I've seen MF post. Even with a high-deductible plan (checking in!) your insurance co's allowed amounts are always way less than the provider's billed amount, so unless you're getting a significant pre-pay cash discount (unlikely) you're fucking yourself right from the start by not going through your insurance. Plus, now you're not accruing anything against your deductible, so if something major ends up happening later that year you've double-fucked yourself since you have to pay even more out-of-pocket before your deductible kicks in.

  10. #34810
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    8,367

    Shit that annoys you

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Seriously. That might be the most moronic thing I've seen MF post. Even with a high-deductible plan (checking in!) your insurance co's allowed amounts are always way less than the provider's billed amount, so unless you're getting a significant pre-pay cash discount (unlikely) you're fucking yourself right from the start by not going through your insurance. Plus, now you're not accruing anything against your deductible, so if something major ends up happening later that year you've double-fucked yourself since you have to pay even more out-of-pocket before your deductible kicks in.
    Iíve come to believe that most of what he posts is fabricated to make some kind of point. But he usually gets the details wrong and makes himself look worse.

  11. #34811
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    10,743
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    I think you're doing this wrong.
    How? Perhaps things have changed over the years, but it USED to be that I could check out of an office (for a routine visit with no scans, actual treatment, or anything that is), they'd tell me how much I'd owe, I'd pay, and that was that. Any time I've given them my insurance, they'd tell me I didn't owe much, and then I'd get a big phat bill in the mail way later. At an inflated "insurance" rate of course.

    I've witnessed an instant price difference first hand once in Summit County when I needed care at Copper Mountain (which is an urgent care clinic run by St. Anthony). They handed me a bill and asked for my insurance, my eyes about popped out of my head. I told them I was self-pay and the lady said "OH! In that case, here's your bill for cash pay.", had it ready to go apparently, and it was like HALF of what the insurance rate would've been. Since then, I've always preferred to self-pay when possible. Goes against my deductible anyway if I submit those paid invoices to insurance. At least that's what BCBS has told me in the past. Again. Please enlighten me as to what I'm doing wrong in 2021. I very well might be screwing up on this one, so I'd genuinely like to know.

  12. #34812
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    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntblanks View Post
    fify
    True dat

  13. #34813
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    on the banks of Fish Creek
    Posts
    6,481
    Bless your heart…

  14. #34814
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Seriously. That might be the most moronic thing I've seen MF post. Even with a high-deductible plan (checking in!) your insurance co's allowed amounts are always way less than the provider's billed amount, so unless you're getting a significant pre-pay cash discount (unlikely) you're fucking yourself right from the start by not going through your insurance. Plus, now you're not accruing anything against your deductible, so if something major ends up happening later that year you've double-fucked yourself since you have to pay even more out-of-pocket before your deductible kicks in.
    Not true. Going through insurance has ALWAYS fkd me on bills in the past. They absolutely freaking jack up the bill. Upon making an appt, I have literally been told by multiple doctors offices what self-pay costs would be versus insurance, and it was always cheaper. Again, I'm talking for a routine exam or something. Nothing fancy. One receptionist told me they prefer cash pay because it costs so much for administration costs to process insurance and what not, so OF COURSE they have to bake those costs in when billing insurance.

    That said, I was NOT aware of it not accruing against the deductible. When did that change?!

  15. #34815
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    10,743
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I’ve come to believe that most of what he posts is fabricated to make some kind of point. But he usually gets the details wrong and makes himself look worse.
    STFU. Unlike most here, I don't hide behind a keyboard or an alias, and I can assure you I've never fabricated anything. Wasn't trying to make any freaking political point here, jackass. Was simply annoyed about getting a bill in the mail when I was told I had paid in full up front. The astronomical cost was certainly annoying too.

  16. #34816
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    11,504
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    <snip>

    That said, I was NOT aware of it not accruing against the deductible. When did that change?!


    If you "avoid insurance" like you said, how would insurance even KNOW to apply anything to the deductible?

    Dude - you're doing this wrong.

  17. #34817
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    写道
    Posts
    13,240
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    STFU. Unlike most here, I don't hide behind a keyboard or an alias....
    "MontuckyFried" is your real name?

    Sent from my motorola edge plus using Tapatalk
    Daniel Ortega eats here.

  18. #34818
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    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    If you "avoid insurance" like you said, how would insurance even KNOW to apply anything to the deductible?
    They used to let you submit your statements to them. Evidently that's changed?

  19. #34819
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    In a van... down by the river
    Posts
    11,504
    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    They used to let you submit your statements to them. Evidently that's changed?
    Name:  butnevermind.jpg
Views: 238
Size:  13.8 KB

  20. #34820
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Seriously. That might be the most moronic thing I've seen MF post. Even with a high-deductible plan (checking in!) your insurance co's allowed amounts are always way less than the provider's billed amount, so unless you're getting a significant pre-pay cash discount (unlikely) you're fucking yourself right from the start by not going through your insurance. Plus, now you're not accruing anything against your deductible, so if something major ends up happening later that year you've double-fucked yourself since you have to pay even more out-of-pocket before your deductible kicks in.
    Sheesh - now I'm going to _defend_ MF?
    What the hell is this world coming to!? Next I'll be kissing Trump's ring or something.
    But, all that said - I'm in a kind of weird insurance situation myself. One where the negotiated rates are quite poor - at least in every case I have checked. It's usually cheaper to nego the "cash" rate than to gamble on the negotiated rate. (Sometimes, WAY cheaper.)

    (What makes it even more crazy is that with any insurance company I've ever had, it's like hunting for unicorns to get the provider to give you the ICD or CPT code, and then get the carrier to tell you what their negotiated rate is for that provider. Like it will take you _HOURS_! And the frustration level in doing this will be insane, because no-one has any idea how to handle you - they're all used to people just coming in and paying whatever crazy thing comes back after they submit the charges to the carrier and it's repriced six-ways-till-Sunday and the allowed amount comes back. IME, the providers don't even really know the rates they've negotiated with the carrier for..so the carrier could claim nearly anything as their discount and the provider would accept it.)

    So, unless you have coverage that's fairly decent, or a lower stop-loss/out-of-pocket maximum where there's some chance, outside of a catastrophe, that you'll get insurance to pay for anything at all - IMO, asking for the cash rate often makes sense. I have a case that just happened in the last month, where we did exactly that, and we'll be paying around 60% of what we'd have paid otherwise because we started up-front making clear that we would be glad to simply pay up-front and asked about simply paying cash. (Though we still paid with a credit-card, funny enough. That's considered cash these days, I guess.)

  21. #34821
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    base of the Bush
    Posts
    14,426
    Waiting to pick up a rental. Line is long with a couple of kids running around and acting up. Annoying Russian mom of one rambling in anger on the phone. Annoying. Insurance stuff posted. Amusing 😸

  22. #34822
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    slc
    Posts
    16,799
    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    Sheesh - now I'm going to _defend_ MF?
    What the hell is this world coming to!? Next I'll be kissing Trump's ring or something.
    But, all that said - I'm in a kind of weird insurance situation myself. One where the negotiated rates are quite poor - at least in every case I have checked. It's usually cheaper to nego the "cash" rate than to gamble on the negotiated rate. (Sometimes, WAY cheaper.)
    These things can vary widely between providers and insurance co's so it is somewhat dangerous to generalize. In my network cash discounts are usually 20-25%, while negotiated rates are usually discounted 40-60% off the list price. Most people, most of the time, are going to pay more by not going through insurance.


  23. #34823
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    10,743
    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    Sheesh - now I'm going to _defend_ MF?
    What the hell is this world coming to!? Next I'll be kissing Trump's ring or something.
    But, all that said - I'm in a kind of weird insurance situation myself. One where the negotiated rates are quite poor - at least in every case I have checked. It's usually cheaper to nego the "cash" rate than to gamble on the negotiated rate. (Sometimes, WAY cheaper.)

    (What makes it even more crazy is that with any insurance company I've ever had, it's like hunting for unicorns to get the provider to give you the ICD or CPT code, and then get the carrier to tell you what their negotiated rate is for that provider. Like it will take you _HOURS_! And the frustration level in doing this will be insane, because no-one has any idea how to handle you - they're all used to people just coming in and paying whatever crazy thing comes back after they submit the charges to the carrier and it's repriced six-ways-till-Sunday and the allowed amount comes back. IME, the providers don't even really know the rates they've negotiated with the carrier for..so the carrier could claim nearly anything as their discount and the provider would accept it.)

    So, unless you have coverage that's fairly decent, or a lower stop-loss/out-of-pocket maximum where there's some chance, outside of a catastrophe, that you'll get insurance to pay for anything at all - IMO, asking for the cash rate often makes sense. I have a case that just happened in the last month, where we did exactly that, and we'll be paying around 60% of what we'd have paid otherwise because we started up-front making clear that we would be glad to simply pay up-front and asked about simply paying cash. (Though we still paid with a credit-card, funny enough. That's considered cash these days, I guess.)
    Ha. THANK YOU! Glad I'm not the only one who actually shops around and does my homework. Unless it's an emergency that is. I feel your pain on the coding and complete insanity of HCPs not knowing their heads from their asses when it comes to billing. With small doctors offices, it's always been easy (and comparatively cheap). When dealing with hospitals? WOO! Fuggedaboutit.

  24. #34824
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    These things can vary widely between providers and insurance co's so it is somewhat dangerous to generalize. In my network cash discounts are usually 20-25%, while negotiated rates are usually discounted 40-60% off the list price. Most people, most of the time, are going to pay more by not going through insurance.
    Oh, I totally get that. I've seen a ton of stuff in these areas. Suffice it to say - sophisticated providers have more ways to screw with you than the used car dealership. We've been fairly lucky to rarely need care (outside of catastrophic events, like broken legs etc.) and having providers who aren't out to gouge us. We've made deals where we can and simply pay where we can't.

    The one good point in the whole discussion is that you, as a consumer, are really badly outmatched in the war to get the cheapest (or even reasonable) price. Generally, consumers have no leverage, very incomplete knowledge/information, and really need whatever medical service you seek (and probably right now). So, the likelihood of you getting screwed without a 1000 Kg gorilla in your corner is high. Unfortunately, the enemy of your enemy (the insurance co) is a terrible, terrible friend.

    That whole system is such a mess...

  25. #34825
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    10,743
    RE: Hospital billing, I've replicated this guy's experiment as well. It was insanity. ....We ended up going with a midwife. Haha.


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