CAST Binding/Green Mountain Freeride/ Lars Chickering-Ayers Binding is live

[skiingsamurai]

^^this space reserved for a real response. Ill attempt to answer this when I get home tonight

[1000-oaks]

My $0.02 on the wire climbing bails:
- Lighter weight than laser-cut & formed SS plate bails.
- Much cheaper to manufacture than laser-cut & formed SS plate bails.
- The plate bails looked like they could rattle and be pretty annoying, and might not stay in the up position very well. The wire bails can snap into detents in the baseplates, preventing rattle and holding them in the desired positions.

The lack of multiple climbing heights is a bummer, but probably a better way to go compared to the flip-plates. I'd rather have a wire bail and am glad to see the design change.

[Speedfreak]

Dear CAST or anyone affiliated,

Can you please clarify exactly what goes into doing your boot modification. IE., Exactly what hardware is used, how much boot sole is ground off, how the inserts are fastened? Some people believe that you are still using screw in inserts. Some think they are directly from Dynafit. Other state that they can't be installed from Dynafit without re-molding the plastic boot shell. My boots are perfect right now and it wasn't cheap getting them that way. I believe me and many others would like to know exactly what the modification involves before sending them in.

Does it really matter? You're only going up clicked into the inserts, not skiing down in them, making the tear-out issue moot because there is virtually zero stress put on the inserts. It's not like we're talking about, ahem, Salomon Quest touring pads.

[DudeLebowSKI]

Does it really matter? You're only going up clicked into the inserts, not skiing down in them, making the tear-out issue moot because there is virtually zero stress put on the inserts. It's not like we're talking about, ahem, Salomon Quest touring pads.

Ya I guess. I mean it's not like they are going to grind an indeterminate amount of plastic from a critical area of a several hundred dollar investment. It's not like every boot out there is different and may not respond well to pieces bolted to the sole. It's not like I care if the tech insert rips out while crossing a drainage because hey, they are only meant for going up and I'm only 10 feet past the ski area ropes anyway.

[LC]

I got Vibram soles put onto my Salomon X3s this week locally - Vibram screwed on and the top of the toe & heel lug grown down to bring it back to DIN thickness. The guy who did mine is a well respected bootfitter and wasn't sure initially if they X3s would be able to take the modification (maybe too little thickness in the sole area to take the screws, apparently not all plug boots can take them).

I strongly suspect that the CAST modification is very similar, plus the tech insert. Meaning it's plug boots only, and even some of those might not work. Or else they're winging it and hoping it'll work. This is very undocumented in CAST's literature but you can see the table-mounted routing equipment that will grind the top of the toe & heel lugs in the video where one of the guys is talking about the modification: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmQ1L9e11ZE . At 00:58 you can clearly see that the soles have added stack and that 5-7mm has been ground off the top of the toe lug.

Yes I'm speculating a bit, but if this is right then a lot of people's boots aren't going to work and will be pretty pissed off.

[DoWork]

Ya I guess. I mean it's not like they are going to grind an indeterminate amount of plastic from a critical area of a several hundred dollar investment. It's not like every boot out there is different and may not respond well to pieces bolted to the sole. It's not like I care if the tech insert rips out while crossing a drainage because hey, they are only meant for going up and I'm only 10 feet past the ski area ropes anyway.

I personally don't see the need at all. Boots have been getting re-soled for a long time.

[DudeLebowSKI]

I personally don't see the need at all. Boots have been getting re-soled for a long time.

It's not the re-sole that I am concerned about. I don't think it's too much to ask exactly what is being done in regards to a modification who's function is to put people into the backcountry. Seems short sighted NOT to question it IMO.

[east or bust]

I think some of you guys are way over thinking the issue. I doubt the Cast crew is going to touch something they aren't 100% sure about. Several mags have gotten boots back (have they been all plugs, IDK) and I'm sure they would have posted if something was wrong.

[XXX-er]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ystem?ref=live

you can see them do the mod 3/4 down the kickstart page and it doesn't look like rocket science to me, since you are never going to be going any faster than a walking pace on those tech fittings ...I don't see an issue

consider there are super light/super expensive thro away randonnee race boots out there that pretty much just use a piece of steel bar with a couple of divots ground into the ends and the racer will always ski them locked ... just like the cast system

[DoWork]

It's not the re-sole that I am concerned about. I don't think it's too much to ask exactly what is being done in regards to a modification who's function is to put people into the backcountry. Seems short sighted NOT to question it IMO.

While I agree it's good "to know" when you are questioning something, I just sort of take issue with 1). The timing of said inquiry. 2). Of what relevance is the exact process to someone who has no idea what they're talking about anyways? (not trying to say that you don't know what you're talking about- just sayin') Its just not important IMO given the loads it's being expected to weather and the obvious construction methods of all hard plastic and an outsourced, functional and proven tech interface.


I feel like people are asking just to ask at this point. That said, carry on I guess- if it matters to you it's important by default. I'm just going to go dormant on this thread though. Let me know when you internet superheroes uncover some massive scam to hide shitty parts in your system that will one day no doubt kill you though. (just kidding... sort of)

[DudeLebowSKI]

While I agree it's good "to know" when you are questioning something, I just sort of take issue with 1). The timing of said inquiry. 2). Of what relevance is the exact process to someone who has no idea what they're talking about anyways? (not trying to say that you don't know what you're talking about- just sayin') Its just not important IMO given the loads it's being expected to weather and the obvious construction methods of all hard plastic and an outsourced, functional and proven tech interface.


I feel like people are asking just to ask at this point. That said, carry on I guess- if it matters to you it's important by default. I'm just going to go dormant on this thread though. Let me know when you internet superheroes uncover some massive scam to hide shitty parts in your system that will one day no doubt kill you though. (just kidding... sort of)

Not sure why you are taking offence or questioning my motives? I already purchased the plates. My money is already at CAST. I'm not questioning the ethics or motives of the company. All I want to know is how the tech inserts attach so that I can decide FOR MYSELF if my boots in particular look like they will accept the modification. Why is this an issue given everything else that this thread has covered?

EDIT: If you must know

1) My boots seem to have a thinner than normal sole and the toe/heel lugs look 'hollowish'. I can't tell because the plastic is opaque. (many boots cannot be re-soled, let alone tech toe pieces bolted on because of this exact reason)
2) I live across the border so shipping to an from is both expensive AND slow. Customs at the border sucks balls and I don't want to be without my boots for a month only to find out they won't work.

[Speedfreak]

Ya I guess. I mean it's not like they are going to grind an indeterminate amount of plastic from a critical area of a several hundred dollar investment. It's not like every boot out there is different and may not respond well to pieces bolted to the sole. It's not like I care if the tech insert rips out while crossing a drainage because hey, they are only meant for going up and I'm only 10 feet past the ski area ropes anyway.

I guess the canting plates and metal screws that come with most manufacturer's plug boots are included for show.


FWIW: I've ground and matched cant plates in the past, have gotten my boots back and can confirm that CAST uses the exact same process a bootfitter would use to attach the cant plates. Beautiful work - Lars even worked around the Power Chassis - not the easiest job. No reservations about skiing them.

[strawjack]

Hate like fuck to see a pair of these boots show up for sale somewhere and have some one strap in for a downhill ride or slide for life.

[DoWork]

Not sure why you are taking offence or questioning my motives? I already purchased the plates. My money is already at CAST. I'm not questioning the ethics or motives of the company. All I want to know is how the tech inserts attach so that I can decide FOR MYSELF if my boots in particular look like they will accept the modification. Why is this an issue given everything else that this thread has covered?

EDIT: If you must know

1) My boots seem to have a thinner than normal sole and the toe/heel lugs look 'hollowish'. I can't tell because the plastic is opaque. (many boots cannot be re-soled, let alone tech toe pieces bolted on because of this exact reason)
2) I live across the border so shipping to an from is both expensive AND slow. Customs at the border sucks balls and I don't want to be without my boots for a month only to find out they won't work.

I'm really not taking issue with you personally so sorry if that's how it came across. I'm just kind of speaking my mind about the whole all-of-a-sudden major sole replacement concerns thing when it just came out that Lars is up to his eyeballs in bullshit. We've had months and months to ask questions and right now is possibly the least relevant time to raise concerns and not to mention the least convenient time to ask a question so far.


No idea how something looks hollowish when it's opaque but I'll take your word for it. May you find all the answers you seek, and may the odds be forever in your favor!

[DudeLebowSKI]

I guess the canting plates and metal screws that come with most manufacturer's plug boots are included for show.

Haha Ya okay bud....although MY boots in particular only have 4 raised areas in the fore foot inside the shell for external screws much smaller than the ones CAST appears to be using, I'm not concerned about the soles. I want to know how the tech inserts are fastened to the toe. I'm guessing you don't know so why respond? Cause shit for a legit question?

[DudeLebowSKI]

No idea how something looks hollowish when it's opaque but I'll take your word for it.

Doesn't take much more than to remove the liner and boot board and stick my hand in. If the plastic was translucent I would be able to see just how hollow they were and then, I wouldn't need to ask the question. Why now? Well because all the questions I have about the world aren't pre- compiled on a list that I just need to work through in a timely fashion. I pulled my boots out in preparation for shipping and the amount of hollow space inside was a bit alarming.

Sorry for being a cock but I just don't see a problem asking for clarification.

[Speedfreak]

I'm not causing shit, just wondering why you'd be questioning how they're attached so specifically when there is absolutely no reason for them to be to "Dynafit standard" unless you're skiing them downhill.

EDIT: Got it - hollow toes could be a problem. What boots are these that they have hollow toe blocks?

[DudeLebowSKI]

I'm not causing shit, just wondering why you'd be questioning how they're attached so specifically when there is absolutely no reason for them to be to "Dynafit standard" unless you're skiing them downhill.

EDIT: Got it - hollow toes could be a problem. What boots are these that they have hollow toe blocks?

Cheers. That pic you posted looks great. I'm on the Fischer RC4 130's. There's a couple things that are leading me into my question that I should clarify..
1) These boots are remarkably light. So light that anytime a buddy picks one up they comment on how light they feel. This leads me to believe that maybe there is less material somewhere in the shell
2) Although I cannot see inside, the toe lug seems kinda hollow when feeling around...as does the heel lug

I have little concern about the re-soling it's just that if the toe lug is on the hollow side, I'm wondering if the fastening of the tech insert is going to be of acceptable stregth (even though I realize they will never go downhill, there is a certain amount of stress put on those inserts when touring variable landscapes.) Again, sorry for being a cock but I would just like to understand it so I can take accountability for my decision.

[DoWork]

Sorry for being a cock

Dude you are definitely not being a cock.


Maybe a little over concerned, but you're definitely not being a cock.

[DudeLebowSKI]

Dude you are definitely not being a cock.


Maybe a little over concerned, but you're definitely not being a cock.

Haha! Really? That's weird because I definitely had 'cockish' intention in a couple of my responses. Cheers man.

[Speedfreak]

Ah, and with Fischer's reputation re: plastics I'd be concerned too (that Vacuum fit plastic has been known to explode like the old Tecnica TNT). That said, my friends that have that boot are all in lust with it.

Any way to get confirmation from Fischer on the toe block design? Maybe Lars has done a pair already? Mine was the second pair of boots with the power chassis that Lars had done, and he indicated that having done the other pair made his job on mine a bit easier.

[DudeLebowSKI]

Ah, and with Fischer's reputation re: plastics I'd be concerned too (that Vacuum fit plastic has been known to explode like the old Tecnica TNT). That said, my friends that have that boot are all in lust with it.

Any way to get confirmation from Fischer on the toe block design? Maybe Lars has done a pair already? Mine was the second pair of boots with the power chassis that Lars had done, and he indicated that having done the other pair made his job on mine a bit easier.

Yes, that is another concern for sure. I sent them an email with a picture of the outside (before I started feeling around inside the shell) and they said it looked compatible. DoWork's point about them being swamped right now is exactly why I posted the question here. I figured if someone could answer it here, it would save the fellas having to re-hash it out to each individual with the same question. Honestly, I would just like to know how they fasten the tech insert and how much material is removed for the lug. I want to be informed so that if it doesn't work out or something goes wrong I can take full accountability for the choice I made. I thought I was doing some good here boys!

[easternskr]

I have Fisher Vacuum Rangers that have been modified by Lars. Because the Rangers already come up a vibram sole both Lars and I agreed there was no need to change that aspect of the boot. So all he did was put the tech binding insert into the sole/toe. I'd post a picture but I am at work but the result looks pretty much like what Speedfreak posted above. And yes, I did take out the liners and feel around in the toe area and there are no protrusisons in there (actually - even without doing that it's clear just from looking at the outside of the boot that there was plenty of sole material for the insert. And the Rangers are very light just like the 130s (I have both). Of course, only real world usage will really prove or disprove the worth of this work. But right now it looks pretty good to me.

[DudeLebowSKI]

^^^ Thanks easternskr. I know you are at work but is it your understanding that the tech inserts are fastened to the boot toe by the two outside toe screws that hold the sole on? Or are there additional fasteners under the sole? I guess it doesn't matter if there is nothing protruding into the inner shell. Also, I'm guessing since they didn't have to replace your soles, there was no need to grind down the top of the toe lugs? Thanks again.

[Speedfreak]

Not sure if this is how they're doing all the boots but maybe this will help?