Diagnose MY Car Problem (please)

[MMP]

08 BMW X5 4.8 (72,000)

no problem with all season tires.

put snows on in November that were bought last year and had a few thousand miles on them (5k max) and they couldn't be balanced properly. They were balanced, then re-balanced, then taken elsewhere and roadforce balanced. There was a shaking you could see in the headrest and feel in the seat, not so much in the steering wheel.

I returned the tires and replaced them with identical new. It was a hassle with the warranty but that's irrelevant to the story. They are Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow Mercedes XL.

Same problem. took them to be roadforce balanced, same problem

Noticed a pulsing in the brakes. I have a warranty so the dealer (in their infinite wisdom) replaced the pads but not rotors. I had them change the rotors. I just had them replace all 4 rotors last week again.

So i have new brakes, new tires, and an suv i want to drive around 80, but it shakes and is driving me nuts.

My knowledgable car buddy (JGB) mentioned wheel bearings. I mentioned it to the dealer but they focused on the brakes. The dealer claims they inspected the suspension.

Ideas? Gracias.

[iceman]

It's the Bendix.

[MMP]

replace them again?

[userA]

your beemer is prepped for US speed limit enforcement with device that shakes vehicle @ 75mph?
bF

[Timberridge]

It's the Bendix.

The left or right one?

Since it only happens after you put on the snows, I would continue to suspect the tires/wheels. Are they the same aspect ratio and size as the all seasons? When you say roadforce balanced was it done on a Hunter 9700, or equivalent? I ask because some guys like to say roadforce balanced but don't actually use one.

Try rotating the wheels--does the vibration change in intesity?

You mention they checked the suspension, but worn lower control arm bushings can also cause vibration issues.

[MMP]

they seem to think its the tires too. but they're brand new, and had the same problem as identical ones which were also like new, so would that be an odd coincidence, or maybe the tire is just not right for the car. 255/55HR 18.

Unsure about the machine they used to balance them. One place definitely uses roadforce, since my tire guy sent me there, but that was the last set of tires. Take them there? Walk in the dealer's shop area and see what kind of machine they use?

[Todd Zander]

does the shaking go away above 90?

[iceman]

How about 120?

[Timberridge]

255/55-18 is the standard size so you should be ok there.

Take the new set back to the place you know uses the roadforce and have them rebalanced.

Pirelli changed the design of the Ice and Snows this year or last. Two winters ago I had a set of the older style on a SUV and had some difficulty balancing them. I called them the Nice and Slows because they used to howl at 70-75 mph.

[RShea]

Put racing slicks on the car for a few days, if they are ok then the tire tread of the snow tires. Also anyone check the rims to see if one is causing the problem (bent or out of round?)

[iceman]

yeah just call your local Rent-A-Slick, they'll hook you right up.

[Timberridge]

Put racing slicks on the car for a few days, if they are ok then the tire tread of the snow tires. Also anyone check the rims to see if one is causing the problem (bent or out of round?)

And regarding the rims, these are the same stock rims not different ones? Some aftermarket rims are not hub centric and are a bitch to balance, and need to be balanced on the car.

[jgb@etree]

08 BMW X5 4.8 (72,000)

no problem with all season tires.

put snows on in November that were bought last year and had a few thousand miles on them (5k max) and they couldn't be balanced properly. They were balanced, then re-balanced, then taken elsewhere and roadforce balanced. There was a shaking you could see in the headrest and feel in the seat, not so much in the steering wheel.

I returned the tires and replaced them with identical new. It was a hassle with the warranty but that's irrelevant to the story. They are Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow Mercedes XL.

Same problem. took them to be roadforce balanced, same problem

Noticed a pulsing in the brakes. I have a warranty so the dealer (in their infinite wisdom) replaced the pads but not rotors. I had them change the rotors. I just had them replace all 4 rotors last week again.

So i have new brakes, new tires, and an suv i want to drive around 80, but it shakes and is driving me nuts.

My knowledgable car buddy (JGB) mentioned wheel bearings. I mentioned it to the dealer but they focused on the brakes. The dealer claims they inspected the suspension.

Ideas? Gracias.

I forgot what we talked about when we discussed this, but did the tires balance out OK? Any chance a rim is bent? Have you had an alignment done lately? Is the shaking speed related (less intense at lower speeds, and more intense at higher speed)? And I may well be your buddy, but I'm not knowledgable.... about anything I pulled the last two fixes (broken wiper & seat controls) out of my ass and got lucky

[Timberridge]

yeah just call your local Rent-A-Slick, they'll hook you right up.

Right next to Bendix-R-Us

[RShea]

yeah just call your local Rent-A-Slick, they'll hook you right up.

No rental, just purchase them, it is a BMW and no expense is too great to solve this. If that does not work, just sell the vehicle and get another one....

[Conundrum]

Clik and Clak?

[4matic]

Ask if dealer tried four wheels from used or new car. If they did and the vibration continues maybe whoever swapped the snow tires originally torqued the wheels too tight and bent the hub or damaged a bearing. Other than that: T-case, driveshaft, rear diff.

[Danno]

Your flux capacitor needs to be recalibrated.

[SB]

Are the rims your snows are on new?

If they are old steel rims there could be a bent/dented one that they missed. Usually the tire balance machine can compensate but there are exceptions.

Another issue is radial thrust/pull, if a right front gets mounted on the left rear the radial belts can get messed up and cause a vibration that can not be compensated for.

[Todd Zander]

And regarding the rims, these are the same stock rims not different ones? Some aftermarket rims are not hub centric and are a bitch to balance, and need to be balanced on the car.

thats not true dude. wheels with different hub bores than the hubs on the vehicle can be balanced out just fine on a machine, it's centering them on the hub that gets tricky without hubrings.

based on the fact that it's an 08 BMW, i don't think he's taking that risk.

Ask if dealer tried four wheels from used or new car. If they did and the vibration continues maybe whoever swapped the snow tires originally torqued the wheels too tight and bent the hub or damaged a bearing. Other than that: T-case, driveshaft, rear diff.

and ive never heard of anyone bending hubs/rotors by over torqueing, thats just stupid.

[userA]

vapor lock between the tire & rim?

[Timberridge]

thats not true dude. wheels with different hub bores than the hubs on the vehicle can be balanced out just fine on a machine, it's centering them on the hub that gets tricky without hubrings.

based on the fact that it's an 08 BMW, i don't think he's taking that risk.

and ive never heard of anyone bending hubs/rotors by over torqueing, thats just stupid.

Yes, I did not word that correctly. I meant they don't balance on the car (unless as you mentioned you use adaptors).

As far as over torquing, unevenly torqued bolts will cause a deformation to occur--ie. cylinder head bolts.

If for no other reason than to make a roadside tire change a more pleasant experience, after the shop gets done zzzzppp zzzppp-ing the lug bolts on with a pneumatic wrench I retorque the lug nuts by hand.

[MMP]

does the shaking go away above 90?

No

How about 120?

I'll get back to you

And regarding the rims, these are the same stock rims not different ones? Some aftermarket rims are not hub centric and are a bitch to balance, and need to be balanced on the car.

stock rims, same that the all seasons run on.

No rental, just purchase them, it is a BMW and no expense is too great to solve this. If that does not work, just sell the vehicle and get another one....

QFT! have we spoken before?? i just went to the self serve car wash to pressure wash the rims, brakes, tires, and I only had a $50. so i had to grab lunch, and use the change for the wash

[MMP]

I forgot what we talked about when we discussed this, but did the tires balance out OK? Any chance a rim is bent? Have you had an alignment done lately? Is the shaking speed related (less intense at lower speeds, and more intense at higher speed)? And I may well be your buddy, but I'm not knowledgable.... about anything I pulled the last two fixes (broken wiper & seat controls) out of my ass and got lucky

before the rotors were done last Friday, two of the tires were spun and within 1/4 ounce each, and according to the tech not likely to have an effect.

out of your ass? Is that where you keep your common sense?

[BCMtnHound]

Has the tire air pressure been checked. Winter tires are usually recommended to be run a little higher PSI than all seasons/summer tires. Put in another 10psi and see if the shudder/vibration dissipates (within the safe cold inflation range of course).

Is there a speed restriction on the tire? My winter michellins are not recommended to be driven above 120kph - rubber is too soft for those higher speeds, especially on warm pavement (say above 10C).