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  1. #1
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    AT Boot Comparative Flex by model (updated)

    Old thread was here. Have PM'ed Tony but he's missing so don't have ability to update the list. I will commit to updating the original post. Looking back this goes to 2007 so has some super old boots but is very useful to leave it in so I've kept as much as possible original

    Overall general article is here from 2013

    2016 article with same general advice is here https://www.wildsnow.com/11066/at-sk...-buying-guide/

    AT Boot Comparative Flex

    The list has been (un-scientifically) compiled by:

    a) Posters' input comparing their stiffest AT/Freeride boots' flex (Endorphins, Tornado, Aero Freeride) against their alpine boot. A single alpine boot brand's flex range (in this case, Salomon) makes for better comparability in contrast to mixing flex ranges from Lange, Tecnica or Nordica.

    b) Once the stiffest AT/Freeride boots flex ratings have been established, the ratings of the softer AT boots were established down the flex range fine-tuning up or down according to, again, posters' input.

    Alpine boots used for comparison

    140 - Lange 140 RS
    100 - Salomon X-Wave 9
    95 - Salomon Gun
    90 - Salomon X-Wave

    THE LIST (stiffest ---> softest) as of October 31st, 2013
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    135 - Dalbello Lupo AX130C

    130 - Atomic HawX Ultra XTD 130, Dynafit Vulcan (w/ tongue - w/o tongue subtract 10), Tecnica Cochise Pro 130, Dynafit Khion

    125 - Tecnica ZeroG Tour Pro

    120 - Dalbello Lupo AX120, Scarpa Mobe, Tecnica Cochise Pro 120, Salomon Mtn Lab

    115 - K2 Pinnacle 130, Scarpa Freedom SL, Tecnica ZeroG Guide Pro

    110- Dynafit Mercury (w/ tongue - w/o tongue subtract 10), Dynafit Khion MS

    105 - Scarpa Maestrale RS, Black Diamond Factor, Dynafit Titan, Titan UL, Scarpa Hurricane

    100 - Arcteryx Procline, Dynafit TLT6 Performance, Tecnica Cochise Light 120, Dynafit Zzero ("Green Machine") CF 4-buckle [2011-12 version with full carbon cuff),

    95 - Fisher Carbon Traverse, Atomic Backland, Scarpa F1, Dynafit TLT7, Dynafit Winter Guide, Scarpa Typhoon/Skookum (stiff tongue), Black Diamond Quadrant, Garmont Endorphin, Garmont Axon,

    90 - Dynafit One PX, BD Prime, Garmont Radium, Dynafit ZZeus, Dynafit Aero Freeride (4-buckle), La Sportiva Spectre

    85 - Dynafit TLT5 Performance,Scarpa Maestrale, Scarpa Tornado/Pro (black tongue), Dynafit TLT6 Mountain, Scarpa Spirit 4 (black stiffer tongue), Garmont Adrenaline, Dynafit Zzero (older "Green Machine") CF 4-buckle [pre 2011-12 version), Black Diamond Method, Salomon Ellipse e2

    80 - Dynafit TLT5 Mountain, Scarpa Denali XT/TT, Scarpa Spirit 4 (green softer tongue), Lowa Struktura Rodeo/Pro, Dynafit Zzero PX 4-buckle

    75 - Scarpa Rush, Scarpa Spirit 3, Garmont Megaride/G-Ride, Lowa Struktura Evo, Dynafit Aero Speed (3-buckle), Dynafit Zzero CF 3-buckle

    70 - Dynafit Dy.N.A EVO, Scarpa Matrix, Old Scarpa Denali (4-buckle red shell), Dynafit TLT 700

    60 - Dynafit Dy.N.A PDG, Scarpa Laser, Garmont Dynamite, Dynafit TLT 500 (2-buckle + strap), Scarpa F3

    50 - OLD Scarpa F1, Garmont Megalite, Dynafit TLT 4 Evo (3-buckle), Dynafit TLT 4 Lite (2-buckle + strap), Dynafit Zzero 2C

    40 - Scarpa F1 Race (2-buckle, no strap), Dynafit TLT Race Pro (1-buckle + strap)
    Last edited by LeeLau; 01-06-2019 at 05:27 PM.

  2. #2
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    Thanks to Greg for making me rethink some of my ratings which might have been a bit conservative.

    I would like to add date for Technica - anyone? Marshall? Verbier?

    Also there was only one other person who mentioned flex ratings for Quadrant. Anyone?

    Anyone comment re the Dynafit DNA?

    Shocking Vulcan flex rating confirmed for production boots which are now in my hands and several other non-sponsored by Dynafit people I know. I will ask for this to be stickied

  3. #3
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    Edit - found marshalolson's Cochise Book of Genesis - http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...hise-pro-light

    where he says (talking about the Cochise Light): "2. the cochise is significantly more laterally rigid (i.e. ability to put power into the edge) than the titan.
    3. the cochise is fore-aft a touch stiffer than the titan. roughly if othe cochise 120/pl is 120, the titan is 110 and the zzeus is 95.'

    So maybe the Cochise Light is 110 and the Cochise 120?

  4. #4
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    Thanks for doing this - It's great!

    BD Method is in twice (85 and 90 Flex).

  5. #5
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    Can at least confirm that the Pro lights feels and skis a lot stiffer than my original bd factors. Not sure if the 130 factors from the last few seasons are stiffer than the original 130s

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Edit - found marshalolson's Cochise Book of Genesis - http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...hise-pro-light

    where he says (talking about the Cochise Light): "2. the cochise is significantly more laterally rigid (i.e. ability to put power into the edge) than the titan.
    3. the cochise is fore-aft a touch stiffer than the titan. roughly if othe cochise 120/pl is 120, the titan is 110 and the zzeus is 95.'

    So maybe the Cochise Light is 110 and the Cochise 120?
    i would call the cochise pro 98 a 125-130 or so, the cochise 120 a 120, and the cochise light a 110. i cannot compare the vulcan to the pro 98 directly though... so not sure how that all plays out.

    however, the only reason the light is 110 not stiffer is because it has a normal strap, not the buckle strap. i mod'd my lights to add the strap (or a WC booster would also do it), and with that, you would be right at 120. the plastic is the same between the 120 and light anyhow. the pro 98 is a touch stiffer because it has thicker plastic in the lower.

    they are all for sure a notch or two stiffer than a titan or maestrale rs - for-aft certainly but most notably laterally.

    hope that helps?


    also, FWIW, the lange RS140 and lange RS130 shells are identical. the RS140 just has a lace-up zip fit style liner, opposed to the stock consumer liner in the RS130.
    go for rob

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  7. #7
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    I assume you are talking about the forward flex. I had garmont adrenalines a few years ago, and laterally they were very soft.when I switched to factors, they skied on firm snow just like my alpine boots.

    Not sure how you measure it , but lateral flex,to me, is more important than forward flex.

    Again, maybe the at boot manufacturers have figured this out and all boots are stiff enough laterally.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using TGR Forums

  8. #8
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    Thanks Lee Lau, I've been waiting for an update to this to help with a new boot decision coming up.

    I skied the Quadrant side by side with my Factors just a few weeks ago, and there is definitely a different in flex between the boots. The Factors are definitely stiffer - I felt the forward "folding" that has been described in many threads about AT boots. I have not experienced this on my Factors.

    I also skied the TLT5s just this past weekend and they skied very similarly (IME) to the Quadrants, maybe a touch softer. I'm not sure if that constitutes a move up for the Factors or a move down for the Quadrants, but it was a fairly noticeable difference between the two.

    My $.02. Take it for what it's worth. Thanks for the update!

    Seth

  9. #9
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    interesting. this will give me a good place to start when looking to replace my one-boot-quiver Radiums. of the boots on the list, anyone care to comment on what may have a similar fit?

  10. #10
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    I really don't know what the fuck these numbers mean, but:

    IME the TLT5M (w/tongue) skis noticeably stiffer (fore-aft and laterally) than the Spirit 4 with the hinged tongue.

    (Also, FWIW, IME the TLT5 skis subjectively "stiffer" with [current model] lean-lock plate in the upright position or [1st gen] TLT5 is modded to get more upright.)
    Last edited by Big Steve; 03-11-2013 at 12:39 PM.

  11. #11
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    Thanks for updating this!

    I would say that the Mercury is a hair stiffer than the Maestrale RS. Maybe a 5 flex rating higher - so if RS is 100, the Mercury should be 105. Also, agree that the Quadrant is softer than the Factor, and is softer than the Maestrale RS as well. Likewise, I certainly agree the various Cochise boots are stiffer than anything in the "100" category, but 20-30% stiffer? That I'm not sure of. Maybe a few of these "100 flex" boots should be in a 110 or 105 flex category? For sure the Mobe is not 20% stiffer than the Maestrale RS.
    Last edited by adrenalated; 03-11-2013 at 04:49 PM. Reason: clarity

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    I really don't know what the fuck these numbers mean, but
    Simply an attempt to assign stiffness, flex of boots RELATIVE to each other. Thoughts on accuracy of relative ranking of the One? You are one of the few with lots of experience

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Simply an attempt to assign stiffness, flex of boots RELATIVE to each other. Thoughts on accuracy of relative ranking of the One? You are one of the few with lots of experience
    I'd put the One-U very close to the TLT5 Perf.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    Thoughts on accuracy of relative ranking of the One?
    One is definitely stiffer than standard Maestrale and softer than Maestrale RS, so it seems about right at 90.

  15. #15
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    Can anyone comment for the Garmont Deliriums, do they live up to the claimed 130 flex?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    i would call the cochise pro 98 a 125-130 or so, the cochise 120 a 120, and the cochise light a 110. i cannot compare the vulcan to the pro 98 directly though... so not sure how that all plays out.

    however, the only reason the light is 110 not stiffer is because it has a normal strap, not the buckle strap. i mod'd my lights to add the strap (or a WC booster would also do it), and with that, you would be right at 120. the plastic is the same between the 120 and light anyhow. the pro 98 is a touch stiffer because it has thicker plastic in the lower.

    they are all for sure a notch or two stiffer than a titan or maestrale rs - for-aft certainly but most notably laterally.

    hope that helps?


    also, FWIW, the lange RS140 and lange RS130 shells are identical. the RS140 just has a lace-up zip fit style liner, opposed to the stock consumer liner in the RS130.
    skiing the cochise 120 now...liking the flex for sure. Might need a punch. I was able to pick up a VERY well priced pair of Salomon Quest 120 (NOT THE QUEST MAX). Marshal what say you on the flex of that boot? I put it on and flexed it in the warm house this weekend and it felt like they pretty much folded. I never really paid attention when flexing the Cochise 120 in a warm house so I might for comparison but it sure seemed the "120" of the Quest buckled like an accordion.

    Thanks for the innfo.
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  17. #17
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    I'm gonna go out on a limb and call the Virus Tour ID at 95.

  18. #18
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    should this be stickied? Seems like a helluva resource...
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post

    100 - Scarpa Maestrale RS, Dynafit Mercury, Tecnica Cochise Light 120, Black Diamond Quadrant, Black Diamond Factor, Dynafit Titan, Titan UL, Scarpa Hurricane
    The Quadrant is definitely softer than the Factor, Titan, etc. I would put it closer to the TLT5P or standard Maestrale based on my in-store tests. Maybe it stiffens up more than others in the cold, but at room temp it isn't comparable to the others in that category.

  20. #20
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    La Sportiva Spitfire is in line with the Maestrale IMO, but someone else needs to chime in on it as I didn't ski them close enough together.
    "It need not be fun to be fun." - Big Steve

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  21. #21
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    Left the Tecnica Cochise line of boots about the same pending comments from others

    Moved TLT5 Mtn up, moved Quadrant down. With respect, left Mercury and Maestrale RS the same - to me subjectively it felt the same.

    Keep them coming

  22. #22
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    PU vs. Pebax in the cold vs. in the store/house...

    Maybe all input should be given after flexing in the cold? (Or in the store, but in the cold is obviously more relevant.) Otherwise we're not going to get consistent numbers.

    Thanks for updating the resource, Lee. Very useful.
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    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  23. #23
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    Looking forward to hearing where the new Factor MX and Scarpa Freedoms fall in.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    With respect, left Mercury and Maestrale RS the same - to me subjectively it felt the same.
    Totally fair, they are more similar than different.

    Agree with soylent that Dalbello Virus Tour is right around 90-95. Sherpa 5/5 is right about the same. Not enough experience with either to nail it down any further.

    I'll also throw out that next year's Scarpa Freedom SL is IMHO around 105-110. This will obviously need confirmation from others once more people have had a chance to ski them, but that's my suggestion for a starting point.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Agree with soylent that Dalbello Virus Tour is right around 90-95.
    Agreed. My Virus tours are stiffer than the Maestrale.

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