What's the word on Liberty Variants???

**TagoMago** · 01-04-2016, 06:44 PM

Not sure how useful this will be, but the ruler is placed at center mount point, and other photo is de-cambered "rocker" (28 or so cm from tip to the point where bases meet)
Mine also say 18.5M turn radius
Still really enjoying skiing these, but i'm starting to get some substantial chunks taken out of the edges of the top sheet. Maybe I should round them over with some sand paper? Is that something that's done?

**TagoMago** · 01-04-2016, 06:52 PM

Right. Searched. Sandpaper block and a dab of epoxy it will be.

**Nevada29er** · 01-04-2016, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by aevergreene

Post some base to base camber pics

Sorry, returned them to STP today. The pics wouldn't have been great anyways cause they were still in the wrapper and had a tie wire inside the wrapper going around the ski to hold the label to the ski.

However, I can assure you this pair was flat under foot with early rise tips. That may be exactly what some people want, just not me for a 97mm ski.

**lordf** · 01-06-2016, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Nevada29er

The bases on my Dynastar LP105s are some of the softest and thinnest of any skis I've had. Not that they are bad skis, just highly susceptible to rock damage.

I've had the opposite exp on my LP 105's, it was very thin cover last season in the alps and they left without a major mark. There not really used on a groomed runs and the cover in Avoriaz as thin at best off piste when I was out. I have the AD version so I'm not sure if they have thicker base.

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Calling BS on this one.

You can call it what you want old chap, I'm simply reporting my experiences of a few weeks on Liberty's (Morphics) and Kasltes (MX88's and FX94's) and my LP 105's. The snow in the last few seasons in the alps hasn't been the deepest and I venture off piste to avoid the crowds and ski in Scotland which is basically ice and rocks... One small rock strike tore whole chunks out of the bases of my Liberty's, there the only ski I've used where its managed to separate such large pieces of base form the core, normally I would have expected to see a gouge and a core shot, not a section of the base simply braking off.

The bases on the Liberty's seemed rather brittle, my Kasltes and LP's on the other hand sustained many strikes at a higher rate of impact and speed and showed no damage on the LP's and the Kastles only needed a base grind at the end of the season. Out of all the folk I've skied with over the years the main issues people have had have been in Liberty, my pals tails de-lammed on her within a couple of hours use, on piste with a few park laps.

**Lindahl** · 01-06-2016, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by lordf

I've had the opposite exp on my LP 105's, it was very thin cover last season in the alps and they left without a major mark. There not really used on a groomed runs and the cover in Avoriaz as thin at best off piste when I was out. I have the AD version so I'm not sure if they have thicker base.

You can call it what you want old chap, I'm simply reporting my experiences of a few weeks on Liberty's (Morphics) and Kasltes (MX88's and FX94's) and my LP 105's. The snow in the last few seasons in the alps hasn't been the deepest and I venture off piste to avoid the crowds and ski in Scotland which is basically ice and rocks... One small rock strike tore whole chunks out of the bases of my Liberty's, there the only ski I've used where its managed to separate such large pieces of base form the core, normally I would have expected to see a gouge and a core shot, not a section of the base simply braking off.

The bases on the Liberty's seemed rather brittle, my Kasltes and LP's on the other hand sustained many strikes at a higher rate of impact and speed and showed no damage on the LP's and the Kastles only needed a base grind at the end of the season. Out of all the folk I've skied with over the years the main issues people have had have been in Liberty, my pals tails de-lammed on her within a couple of hours use, on piste with a few park laps.

Liberty Morphics used Ptex 2000, which is soft, yes. Liberty Variants use Ptex 4000, which is much tougher. Apples and oranges. AD versions would definitely use tougher bases I'd think. Stock version Dynastars use Ptex 2000, same as the Morphics (and most other big brands). Not sure what Kastle uses.

Ptex 2000 is often used on park skis and big brand consumer skis because it needs less waxing, and most consumers don't venture into low coverage.

**lordf** · 01-06-2016, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Liberty Morphics used Ptex 2000, which is soft, yes. Liberty Variants use Ptex 4000, which is much tougher. Apples and oranges. AD versions would definitely use tougher bases I'd think. Stock version Dynastars use Ptex 2000, same as the Morphics (and most other big brands). Not sure what Kastle uses.

Ptex 2000 is often used on park skis and big brand consumer skis because it needs less waxing, and most consumers don't venture into low coverage.

Makes sense as to why my LP's have survived without a base grind or repair thus far. The Kastles use a graphite sintered UHM race base, not sure on the exact model but from memory its similar to the one used by Stockli. I've never waxed a ski that took in wax as well as the Kastles do aside from my GS skis.

**Lindahl** · 01-06-2016, 11:16 AM

Similar to DPS? I felt it was softer than 4000, but harder than 2000 - perhaps not though? Only limited time on it.

**lordf** · 01-06-2016, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Similar to DPS? I felt it was softer than 4000, but harder than 2000 - perhaps not though? Only limited time on it.

Never had a chance to handle a DPS as they're relatively rare in Europe and there's only a few places in the uk that stock them.

**pureantigravity** · 03-26-2016, 12:53 AM

Blister did a 'wow' review on the Liberty Origin 96.

Anyone skied them?

Is the made-in-china with Liberty still a big deal?

**ExoticSkis** · 03-26-2016, 05:10 AM

Skied the Liberty Origin 96 for several laps....yep...the hype is correct...really fun, really effective, ski. Great shaping and balance...not a muscle-head ski, more off-piste bias than frontside groomer bias.....instantly fun, with more power than you expect, yet doesn't beat you up and demand superhero pilot conditioning....and it disappears underfoot after a couple initiation turns....I loved this ski. Jonathan's review is right-on. You can use this ski anywhere...the only downside is the Origin 96 is not a super-grippy racecarver on boilerplate....it's 96mm underfoot...but its pretty darn good. Smooth, fun, poweful, speedy, stable, quicker than you imagine and overall a wicked choice if you only have room for one pair of skis to take somewhere....

Quality is really good.....Liberty is rumored to be produced in the same Asian factory as some of DPS's previous models. We have tested a bunch of Libertys over the last few seasons and found them to be excellent quality and totally fun...so much so I bought a personal pair of Variant 113s....

Get a ride on the Origins...you might be impressed...

**buttahflake** · 03-26-2016, 06:13 AM

i hated the Origins that i demoed this year
chattery and way too loose for me, i much prefer the Varients

**angler99** · 03-27-2016, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

i hated the Origins that i demoed this year
chattery and way too loose for me, i much prefer the Varients

Origin 96s are a way different ski than the Origins. Way stiffer in the tail, less rocker in the tail, carbon fiber stringers, and a decent amount of camber. Check out the Blister review on it.

**pureantigravity** · 03-27-2016, 11:09 AM

Thanks for the feedback.

It was either the Kendo or Origin 96. The rocker profile on the O96 just seems right for around here PNW and makes it a much more playful ski.

The Kendo, Bonafide, etc all seem a little more of an pure groomer ski and a bit less capable when mother nature throws a lot of variability into the equation.

And I would have bought an ON3P if they had a similar ski, 90-95ish, almost twin tip rocker.

I'm kind of disappointed it is not made locally. But hey, neither is Arcyeryx anymore.

The ski graphics are awesome sauce and a Canadian dealer in BC has them for 30% off right now

**Lord Thomas** · 03-27-2016, 05:22 PM

I ended up buying a pair of Origin 96 187's and have a few days on them in a variety of conditions. Can't say I've ever skied anything quite like them. For me they have had excellent grip on hardpack and even boiler plate, let's say on the upper end of the scale for a 96mm ski. Can make just about any turn shape you can think of and you can't hardly sink them. We got into some 3D wind deposited snow up at Mission Ridge up by the microwave tower and while I was down into the snow (all 215lb of me) the tips wouldn't sink, even when putting a little pressure on them. Just arced the turns and head into the next. Hands down the best float of any sub 100mm ski I've been on........and I've been on a shit ton of skis in the last 7 years (something like 70-80+). They will get deflect some in deep, heavy chop but not as badly as I would have thought. Very high speed limit, even on roughed up groomers. As long as you keep them on edge they will go about as fast as you want on groomers, bases flat really isn't their strong point.

One notable characteristic is that they want pretty much constant tip pressure. Get neutral or in the backseat and they will start to wander. You don't have to crush them, just keep some pressure on them. In general they are very active skis in that they like to be doing something all the time. Reasonably damp but not as much as a heavy, metal ski. Let's say more damp than your typical Atomic and less damp that your typical metal Blizzard....probably closer to the Blizzard. Don't need to be a ski super hero to use them but need to be technically solid and stay out of the backseat. My 60 year old wife who took up skiing at the tender age of 53 tried 176's at the Mission dealer demo days last month. The Origin 96's and Mantras were her two picks as possibilities to replace her beloved Bonafides as daily drivers. Like me, she came away saying that she had never skied anything like them. It's kind of like a racestock Fischer RC4 slalom ski drank, like a gallon of Mad Dog, and back doored an Armada JJ, and the resulting baby is pretty buff and drinks a lot of Mountain Dew. Hard to describe accurately. Also spent some time on the 16/17 Origin 106 and 16/17 Origin (116). With limited time on them is seems like they get progressively more mellow and straight forward as they get bigger though no less potent. The 116 is the most playful of the bunch. Hope this all makes sense to somebody.

LT

**pureantigravity** · 03-27-2016, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

It's kind of like a racestock Fischer RC4 slalom ski drank, like a gallon of Mad Dog, and back doored an Armada JJ, and the resulting baby is pretty buff and drinks a lot of Mountain Dew.

That was a great review and I won't forget your creative summary. Someone should do a picture-mashup of that description and send it to Liberty.

I'm looking forward to the skis more now. The courier cannot come soon enough!

**chickenmonkey** · 03-27-2016, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by ExoticSkis

Skied the Liberty Origin 96 for several laps....yep...the hype is correct...really fun, really effective, ski. Great shaping and balance...not a muscle-head ski, more off-piste bias than frontside groomer bias.....instantly fun, with more power than you expect, yet doesn't beat you up and demand superhero pilot conditioning....and it disappears underfoot after a couple initiation turns....I loved this ski. Jonathan's review is right-on. You can use this ski anywhere...the only downside is the Origin 96 is not a super-grippy racecarver on boilerplate....it's 96mm underfoot...but its pretty darn good. Smooth, fun, poweful, speedy, stable, quicker than you imagine and overall a wicked choice if you only have room for one pair of skis to take somewhere....

Quality is really good.....Liberty is rumored to be produced in the same Asian factory as some of DPS's previous models. We have tested a bunch of Libertys over the last few seasons and found them to be excellent quality and totally fun...so much so I bought a personal pair of Variant 113s....

Get a ride on the Origins...you might be impressed...

How you you compare the Origin 96 to the Sequence? You are one of the only reviewers that I know of that has skied both.

**Nevada29er** · 03-28-2016, 12:47 AM

LT,

Comparisons to a 187 Bonafide? Also, how does it do in 3D snow, are the tips pretty catch free?

**Lord Thomas** · 03-28-2016, 06:13 AM

N29,

Been a while since I've been on 187 Bones but I do jump on my wife's 173 every once in a while. Very different than a Bonafide. I love the way Bones are damp, very directionally stable and not readily deflected in chop but, let's face it, they are bottom feeders. The O96 is a MUCH more energetic carver and grips as well as you could hope from a 96mm ski. The O96 is not as damp as a Bone but it's still pretty good on that count and they are also more readily deflected in chop. On that note, when the 96's do get deflected in chop it doesn't feel as drastic as most skis (e.g. Automatic 102), much more subtle.

Now, to your real question, 3D snow. No comparison, the O96 is in another league than the Bonafide. As much as I like Bones they can't compete with the 96 when it's deep. With the limited time I have on the 96's I would have to agree with JE on Blister when he said that he can't think of another sub-100mm ski he would rather have in 3D snow. I got them for skiing places like Mission Ridge where you might drop a wind scoured, boiler plate chute to get to some boot-knee deep pow that get wetter and heavier as you go down the mountain. I love exploring the nooks and cranies of new mountains and these would be my tool of choice when the snow isn't too deep. They are kind of like the Leatherman of skis and would make a great one ski quiver. Right now I've got the 96's and Bibby 190's and figure I've pretty much got it covered wherever I go.

**angler99** · 03-28-2016, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

N29,

Been a while since I've been on 187 Bones but I do jump on my wife's 173 every once in a while. Very different than a Bonafide. I love the way Bones are damp, very directionally stable and not readily deflected in chop but, let's face it, they are bottom feeders. The O96 is a MUCH more energetic carver and grips as well as you could hope from a 96mm ski. The O96 is not as damp as a Bone but it's still pretty good on that count and they are also more readily deflected in chop. On that note, when the 96's do get deflected in chop it doesn't feel as drastic as most skis (e.g. Automatic 102), much more subtle.

Now, to your real question, 3D snow. No comparison, the O96 is in another league than the Bonafide. As much as I like Bones they can't compete with the 96 when it's deep. With the limited time I have on the 96's I would have to agree with JE on Blister when he said that he can't think of another sub-100mm ski he would rather have in 3D snow. I got them for skiing places like Mission Ridge where you might drop a wind scoured, boiler plate chute to get to some boot-knee deep pow that get wetter and heavier as you go down the mountain. I love exploring the nooks and cranies of new mountains and these would be my tool of choice when the snow isn't too deep. They are kind of like the Leatherman of skis and would make a great one ski quiver. Right now I've got the 96's and Bibby 190's and figure I've pretty much got it covered wherever I go.

This is spot on. I used to never ski anything under 110mm underfoot, but now it's really hard for me to not take these Org96s out regardless of conditions. It's got to be a pretty deep day. The rebound from turn to turn on hardpack is so much fun. Hard to describe these skis, but Lord Thomas and Blister Gear really nailed it. It's the best hardpack ski I've used, although I'm not a racer, and then you couple that with really great float in pow. The camber section with a pretty stiff tail makes for a great ride. Other posters are right that you do need to stay a bit forward with these, but don't need to be a former racer to drive them.

**pureantigravity** · 03-28-2016, 12:51 PM

From what it sounds, the O96 is flying well under the radar. Looking for a lot of reviews online is futile. Finding a dealer up here was a challenge.
They have some Whistler athletes proudly flying Liberty colours but no one to buy them from in the big ski town.
Which is also a reason they are now on sale

But still, if ON3P made a similar ski, it would be an easy choice of going with the handmade favorite.

**Scooter65** · 09-12-2017, 06:06 PM

Anyone get on any Origin 96 or 106 or Variants 97 or 113 last winter?

**Self Jupiter** · 09-12-2017, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Scooter65

Anyone get on any Origin 96 or 106 or Variants 97 or 113 last winter?

I have the Variant 113 186 and pretty much concur w blister and everything that has been written here. Surprisingly easy to ski once up to a decent speed. Responds well to traditional drive the shovels type technique. Not surfy but shuts down speed predictably. at 5'7'' 200 they're great in powder until it gets very deep, then I would prefer something surfier and wider.

Does Liberty make this ski anymore?

**ExoticSkis** · 09-13-2017, 05:42 AM

I got a bunch of runs on the Origin 96, 106, 116 and Variant 87 and 97 last winter in Vermont. Liberty still makes the Variant 113 I(they had dropped it but kept limited pairs available for special request purchases...just didn't have them on the website last season...the 113s have reappeared on this season's website).

The new Origin series is a new feel for Liberty....much more directional in my opinion, but really, really effective and a hoot to ski. Less surfy feeling than the older Helix series...more "frontside performance". They have a higher level of grip and acceleration on groomers and cut-up surfaces, but less driftability when the snow gets deeper....a tradeoff for sure, but great feeling skis. The rocker is progressively increased in the Origin series as you go up the size options...and they felt progressively more surfy as you go up in width, but even the 116 lacks the looser feel of the old Helix at those sizes. I really liked the Origins, even though I miss the Helix lineup which was super fun and addictive.

My Variant 113s are still one of my favorite skis. Simply awesome at storm skiing in all kinds of conditions, stable and reliable at speed, and secure on harder surfaces when you need it. I didn't get to ski the new Variant 113, only the 87 and 97....and both where excellent frontside all-terrain skis...maybe not as hard-core as the originals, but lively and grippy with really fun personalities and able to dig trenches into the surface when laid over and pressured into a carve.