Praxis Piste Jib Reviews?

[KIRinPNW]

Anyone been on them? Search didn't turn up any substantive reviews. I know it's based on the Mtn Jib, and I read up on those, but wanted to see how people were liking the slimmer design.

[FalsePositive]

Jimty wrote up a review yesterday on p. 19 of the "2013 Praxis Skis" thread. Check it out - very good write up.

[Jimty]

I'll re-post it here in a bit so people searching can find it easier.

OK, here it is. Edited to include some additional thoughts on bump performance in light of questions raised in another thread.

************

So I picked up a pair of medium flex 184 Piste Jibs (carbon layup) about 2 weeks ago and thought I'd post up my initial thoughts.

Me: 5ft 10 inches, 180lbs (without kit), certified instructor (non-practicing) - i.e. I know what I should be doing even if I don't do it all of the time, not a charger by the standards of this board but like to open it up if I'm feeling on my game, value technique over power.

Current quiver: 195 Folsom Gambits, 184 Line Bacons (11/12 model), 179 Prophet 90s (07/08 model).

What I was after: Wanted a ski that combined the hard snow and shallow crud performance of my Prophet 90s with some of the playfulness, manoeuvrability and soft snow performance of my Bacons.

The long and short of it: I really like these skis and they are pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

Looking at things in a bit more detail:

Customer service: Outstanding. This won't be news to anyone who has communicated with Keith before, but he is a true gent. Super helpful, quick to respond to questions and he had my skis in Whistler waiting for me when I arrived.

First impressions: Fantastic looking skis. Probably the best finish I've seen (Folsom are a close second). Graphics (Tsunami) really pop. Drew a lot of compliments from my buddies - they are a great advert for the quality of Keith's workmanship. Very light (so much so that I'm sort of wishing I'd mounted them with something lighter than Guardians...)

Mounted: On the dimple (-5 from centre I think) with Guardians. Keith said the sweet spot was -5 to -4. I was very tempted to go -4, but I'm happy where they are given that I wanted something a little more directional than the Bacons and I like having a bit more tip in a ski this width in the soft stuff.

Flex: Given that I was looking for a ski that could hold an edge when things firm up, I was a little surprised at first by how soft these skis hand flexed. Overall they initially felt pretty close to my Bacons, but on closer inspection the Jibs do feel stiffer in the shovel and tail.

On the snow:

As Keith pointed out, these skis have a long natural turn radius for a ski in this class (25 metres). Seemed pretty interesting on paper - a jibby fun stick with a charge-y radius. If you want to ride the sidecut these skis will serve up big GS turns no worries. For a ski that hand flexed pretty soft, they don't flap about one bit when carving and tracked straight and true through each turn. Mounted on the dimple I felt I needed a little more of a forward stance than I'd got used to on my Bacons (which figures - my Bacons are mounted at something like -2), but once I got used to driving the start of each turn off the front of the ball of my foot (rather than the towards the back of it) it was very easy to bang out short turns too.

Edge grip was ridiculous to begin with - I actually felt they weren't as easy as I'd like to break into a skid, but the standard Praxis edge meets Gummy stone routine did the trick.

Felt very good in bumps - tips have enough to them not to fold on you but are soft enough to flex when you need them to. Didn't experience any of the jarring I sometimes felt on my P90s. As the tune mellowed I started enjoying firm bumps more and more. If you can pivot and steer your skis then you don't need to worry about the turn radius length on the Jib in bumps and trees. In the medium flex they are very happy to pop short turns and they are quick edge to edge too. Don't be fooled by the radius. That said, if you don't steer your skis and just want to ride the sidecut then they will want to find the fall line and go long. Detune a bit and you can wash the tails out and skid about without any trouble. These things are really light too, so the swing-weight is low if you prefer to air off bumps and change direction that way. The narrow tips are also a good thing here - they don't get deflected in the troughs or bang into each other.

In shallow chop these things really shine - they've got a fairly deep rocker line in the tip (although the splay is fairly mellow) and they just rolled through that stuff like it wasn't there. Very easy to ski very quickly - I'd become used to skiing my Bacons everywhere (and before that my Folsom Low Riders) so I thought a ski that felt this skinny would get bogged down or bounced around - not a bit of it. A few times I skied into deeper pockets of snow and thought I'd stuff a tip but they floated me over it without any trouble.

I didn't get them into any properly deep stuff as I'd carted my Gambits and Bacons with me and chose the sticks that I thought most appropriate for the day, but I have a feeling I'd be pleasantly surprised by how good they'd do in deeper snow. The lack of sidecut and rocker profile makes me think they'd perform well.

Did a few short hikes and they are very light on the feet. Again, kind of wish I'd put a tech binding on them - it seems a shame to have weighed such a light ski down with a fairly beefy binding, but there you go!

Overall: As noted above, these skis are pretty much exactly what I was looking for. I already like them a lot, and I think I'm going to like them more and more as I get to know them. The only downside is that I was eyeing up a set of Protests before I bought these, and now I have the Jibs I'm almost certain to be buying some Protests (187, medium flex, carbon layup, GPO topsheet - damn I have it all worked out in my head) to keep them company.

Cheers,

Jimty

[Jimty]

Links to pictures below for anyone interested in what the skis look like.

http://s1258.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=0

http://s1258.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=2

http://s1258.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=1

http://s1258.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=3

http://s1258.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=4

[SupreChicken]

Just...thank you for all that, Jimty.

I just finished a day at Stevens hitting groomers and park in the morning, then ripping slushy bumps and trees early afternoon and finishing on the big boy kickers. I was on my gambits (which were awesome), but are not easy to bring around in mid air (a couple of shitty crashes and a big ass-bruise to show for it) and are a bit of work in the bumps unless I just plow through. I've enjoyed bragging that my skinniest ski is 111mm underfoot, but more and more I've been wanting something skinnier for slushy days when I know I won't be getting any pow.

I was waffling between these and the On3P jeronimo, but the blister reviews make it sound not at all what I would look for in a 100mm waisted ski.

What I'd want: pivoty, somewhat chargy, somewhat forgiving, poppy, allows a forward stance, but not so rear mounted that I can't ride switch.

Probably getting a pair. 184 med-stiff, fiberglass.

[fat yeti]

This sounds like what I'm looking for. I'm trying to feel the gap in the quiver. I have fischer watea 120, bluehouse custom 184 precinct, Rossi axioms and dynasties Cham 107. I really like the chams but miss some tail rocker. Trying to decide piste jib or the MVP for my non pow days.

[AyasFreeski]

I'd like to improve my tricks and spend some time in the park. I honestly don't know much about park skis, except that they seem short. I was wondering what the tribe thought about the 184 piste jib for a 6'3" dude, in that context. I'm also looking at the new 181 Park-n-Ride, but that seems almost ridiculous, and probably too specific? My other skis: 196 protest, 194 Freeride, 192 GPO

[auvgeek]

^^I would think you'd be better served on something like the 186 Prester, simply because of the increased effective edge.

I skied SupreChicken's 184 Piste Jib. They are super light, even in fiberglass, with a short running length (114 cm camber-contact length). The longer sidecut is nice, but I really wish it had less rocker. Super fun ski, easy to pop off stuff and throw little tricks, shifties, etc, but also a stable platform for bombing down groomers, etc. Didn't take it on much variable terrain, though.

All that said, it would be the perfect ski for me if it just had less tail rocker. I really wish somebody made a stiffer all-mountain twin: 183-189, 90-100 underfoot with a little tip rocker, no tail rocker, twin, and a 25+ m radius.

[dumpy]

My 184s arrive on Tuesday, hope to mount them by the weekend, will post a review asap

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using TGR Forums

[SupreChicken]

I will get a proper review up today. Overall, for parks/bumps/slush, I'm really happy with the purchase...

[Skeeze]

Looking forward to the review. The terrible snow this year has made me want something smaller than Bibbys for the firm days, but I love the way the Bibbys ski (even on firmer snow where the tails release and slide very consistently) and the Piste Jib looks somewhat similar in style.

Still, I want to make sure the Piste Jib with its more playful style and larger tail rocker isn't giving up so much hard snow performance to a Bonafide, for example.

[SupreChicken]

Aight. That Praxis Piste Jib review I promised.

Oddly enough, like Jimty, I'm also on 195 Folsom Gambits for all but the deepest days. Also have 192 GPO, 196 Protest, Touring on 188 mtn jibs. Added the piste jibs because I wanted a quick park/bumps ride and thought the MVP would be too much overlap. Also didn't think my ancient mtn jibs would survive me trying to learn rails and big airs.

Prob going to retire the mtn jibs to rocks, insert the GPO for dynafits or spring for Steeple 112 vs. BG tour as a new touring setup soon. I need more float. Also likely to CAST up some 191 BG standards with p18s as soon as my plates arrive. Might need a quiver clearing sale soon.

Me: 31 yo 165 lbs, Stevens Pass Pass holder.
Skis: 184 med/stiff fiberglass piste jibs.
Mount: STH 14 at +1 recommended (-5 of center) -- solely in quest of skiing more switch.

A word about the snow: Thank goodness I bought a bumps/park ski this year, because I have used them over half of my days thus far.

I spent some time talking to Keith. I really thought I would prefer the 193 MVP, but he talked me into these sighting how quick they were edge to edge and how nimble in tight spots. "If you're looking for something to rip at high speed all over the mountain, go MVP. If you're really looking for a ski dedicated to firm/slushy days that will include some park, the piste jib is the go-to for everyone here."

Aight. Why not. Once I got over the stigma of owning a ski narrower that 110mm at the waist, I put in the order.

On snow: Super quick, fun, nimble, more stable than they feel like they would be. They certainly aren't a fully cambered ski. But I can point them with confidence and they keep up just fine without frightening me. The long-ish radius with the moustache rocker is a great combination that really brings the playful and chargy together. They are SO FUN in bumps. Centered, knees together style really works well.

For a firm groomer, they are not quite optimal. I prefer my old, fully cambered public enemies if the point is to point em and go. There is something super confidence inspiring about feeling all that camber/running length underfoot. But I have found over the past couple of seasons that I'm really pining for a new challenge on those firm days. I can rip the shit out of groomers just fine on my gambits if I want. That's not what makes me ski bell to bell on crappier days.

Switch, Rails, airs are all great.

Pow: not by design, but the few times I've had these on and found my way into some soft snow, they have been great. Adequate float for a 99mm waist, no hookiness and while I'm certainly not pressing the tips, I'm also not in the backseat. The tail is pleasantly solid in the med-stiff.

So I guess the question is: what is your intended use on those firm days? Are you aspiring to get better in the park and bumps? Great ski. I think one of the most versatile and fun options for this purpose. Are you aspiring to rip the shit out of the crappy conditions at mach looney? They can do it, but I'm sure if that's all I was doing I would find it's speed limit. That ski is not this ski. On3p wren, bonafide, prestor, and apparently also the Caylor and Cochise. I suspect it has one of the highest speed limits of something this playful.

If you're more on the charge and less on the play side of things and you want to get a praxis, I would take a long look at the 9D8. I would also PM me for a referral discount.

To skeeze: If you really love the Bibby (I do, too) why not go PB&J? They are basically the same ski, just different widths/lengths. I have been consistently impressed with Praxis so I stay pretty loyal to them, but when I made the purchase the PBJ and 4frnt turbo were also in the running.

[Skeeze]

I'm sure I'd like the PB&J, but the one thing I don't like about my Bibbys is the durability. It seems like I put a major core shot in them every other day on impacts that would have done nothing to my Praxis skis. Therefore, looking to probably stick to Praxis and ON3P in the future.

[Lindahl]

Moment uses the same base material as Praxis and ON3P. The thicknesses are different though. Moment uses 1.2mm, Praxis is 1.5mm and ON3P is 1.8mm. PM Gear is also 1.8mm with the same material, if I remember right.

[Island Bay]

Thanks for the in-depth reviews.

If anyone could compare these to Praxis BCs, I'd be very keen to hear more. I love my BCs - and they are a very good NZ ski - but they won't live forever.

[Skeeze]

Got two days on my 184 Fiberglass stock flexes last weekend at Mammoth. Conditions were a mix of firm groomers, soft chopped up groomers, firm hardpack and bumps, windbuff, and deep corn/slush. Essentially the exact conditions I bought these for.

I haven't skied any comparable skis, but I can compare them to 184 Bibby Pros if that helps anyone.

Groomers: The Piste Jibs prefer to make medium radius turns, while I find the Bibbys prefer big arcs. The Piste Jibs are much easier to alter turn shape with. I'd say the Bibbys are a bit more stable making huge turns on bumpy groomers at speed, while the Piste Jibs have better edge hold and are easier to turn. I feel like the Bibbys need a lot of speed to start varying the turn shape, and the Piste Jibs are generally more fun than the Bibbys on groomers.

Bumps: The Piste Jibs are better in every way than the Bibbys, although I need to detune the tips and tails of the Piste Jibs as I hooked a tail and a tip once over the course of the two days (nothing horrible, but I know it's completely avoidable with detuning).

Firm Hardpack: I never feel the Bibby has inadequate edge hold, but the Piste Jibs are more confidence inspiring. Both skis favor more of a slarved turn vs. a carve, which is my preference. The Piste Jibs are easier for jump turns with their lower weight. On firm bumpy runouts, I prefer the Bibbys, but I didn't feel uncomfortable straightlining through ugly snow on the Piste Jibs and they always held up for me.

Windbuff: Both skis are very good, but what ski isn't?

Deep corn/slush: I probably prefer the Bibbys for their extra float, but the Piste Jibs do very well.

Air: I didn't get airborne very often but the Piste Jibs are very balanced with their fairly centered stance.

Overall, the Piste Jibs are exactly what I hoped for. They're not a charging ski in the stock flex and prefer a balanced stance, but they'll still hold up if you want to push them hard. More importantly, they make skiing the not-so-great days fun and won't kill you if you feel like taking it easier.

I bought these are an everyday no-new-snow ski and as a travel ski for when little to no snow is expected. They should be perfect for those purposes, and given the 99mm waist and considerable tip and tail rocker, I expect these would do quite well if a surprise 6" fell while traveling.

[bodywhomper]

These skis may fit my "new" need. i'm looking for confirmation and ideas of other skis meeting the category, because i'm certain i'd be lurking for a cheap pair of used boards.

i usually prefer skis that i can generally charge with, but am looking for something more playful and forgiving and shorter. my need is generated by two 3 year olds that will be hitting the slopes more and more, my previous experiences with my 8 year old at that early learning stage, days skiing with my 8 year old (his current preference are the long groomers top to bottom w/o stopping, but his preferences are evolving), and the wonderful seasons recently experienced in tahoe. I'm 5'10", 145lb, tele (big boots). i've been skiing for a long time. currently, my shortest boards at volkl explosives that measure 176 (straight pull). these are too long with the grubs between my legs and such. lately, while skiing with the 8 year old, i sometimes goof off by hitting every little feature that i can find, skiing switch, and doing rudimentary ski ballet moves. 164 cm with rocker tip/tail seems SO short to me. anybody care to share thoughts on skiing that short? what about the le petite? maybe something with a traditional camber. tia.

[LightRanger]

Maybe 170 Moment Tahoes? Err, I guess they're 168 now. Used to be 170 and 180 vs. 168 and 178, IIRC. Could be wrong.

[ghosthop]

Maybe 170 Moment Tahoes? Err, I guess they're 168 now. Used to be 170 and 180 vs. 168 and 178, IIRC. Could be wrong.

Was actually thinking this as I read down the thread, my thoughts on the Tahoe seemed pretty in sync with what people were saying about the Praxis. I personally prefer the Tahoe to the PB&J. The PB&J, while a fine ski, just wasn't too inspiring, and I thought the Tahoe was both a smoother ride and more fun in the bumps and trees.

Has anyone skied both a Piste Jib and Tahoe for comparison?

[grinch]

Interested in that comparison as well. The Tahoe is one of those skis that manages to do everything well