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  1. #1
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    Alaska Heliskiing permit renewed.

    Against the will of the family of the dead skier. Story here. And apparently despite multiple violations.
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  2. #2
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Why do they need bilingual guides?

  3. #3
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    And I want to fly with them......woohoo? So TGR lead me to the idea of booking the wrong company?

    Well either they will be skiing 35° Meadowskipping terrain with us this season....or they are grass smoking death hippies sending me into instant doom. I would prefer door 2 because I can make my own decisions in the mountains. Hamsterballing Russians on the other hand.... hmmmm who knows.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    Why do they need bilingual guides?
    я не зню
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  5. #5
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    on a more serious note: what WILL be the results of this. --> have I booked myself into the 30° dentist camp (or worse the rich russian beginner camp) I desperately tried to avoid with AK Heli? I chose them because the maggots told me so. (and because they are the only ones i could afford. If barely so.)
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  6. #6
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    "A single accident, even one that results in a customer death and even one that may have resulted from failures of the permittee to meet standards for safe operations, will not automatically result in denial of a permit renewal application," Cozzi said.
    While I don't know the details, this blows me away. Accidents happen, despite our best efforts at mitigating the risk. When they're caused by "failures to meet standards for safe operations", they're screwups not accidents, and those involved deserve to have the hammer brought down.

    It's important to note that she wasn't saying they were unsafe, only that even if their negligence contributed to a fatality, that wouldn't necessarily be cause for revoking their permit.

  7. #7
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    sensational journalism at its worst.

    for the record only the mother is objecting, not the father. the father comes from a background of high-level mountaineering, and wants to go skiing with AK heli and spread his son's ashes on the mountain he passed away on.



    plague, you for sure chose correctly.
    Last edited by marshalolson; 02-13-2013 at 12:35 PM.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  8. #8
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    see you did some editing there
    sensational journalism at its worst.
    I subscribe to the Chilkat Valley News. I have been following this in the paper for awhile. For a small town I think this paper does a good job reporting. The reporter interviewed all involved and tried to show all viewpoints and reported accurately on the final decision making. Real reporters and reporting is not often found in a newspaper in a town of 2000 people. Haines is fortunate.
    Avalanches are a fact of life in the heli business sadly people died here.
    I have no idea how this accident will affect their operations. My opinion on heli skiing is the experience of the guides is important. Since Alaska Heliskiing does not list their guides on the web site it is hard to know how qualified.
    Hopefully the snowpack will be bomber and the weather bluebird and everyone has the best day of their life.
    off your knees Louie

  9. #9
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    If the mother seeks retribitution, she should seek it in court, like the rest of the US. Seeking retribution through alterior channels shouldn't be allowed. Kudos to Cozzi for making the responsible decision and basing it on the objective facts of permit grant guidelines.

  10. #10
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    How did you know the father come from that background? Anyways it's pretty i

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    The reporter interviewed all involved and tried to show all viewpoints and reported accurately on the final decision making.
    do you think that is really true?

    all i see when i read the story was:
    *city and region officials saying that AK heli did nothing wrong outside of incomplete paperwork submissions that the recipients of said paperwork didn't feel was substantial or note-worthy,
    *a grieving mother seeking vengeance getting a ton of ink,
    *a pretty miss-leading title (what law specifically? how serious? none of that is discussed...)

    the author has a pretty clear slant about how THEY feel.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post




    plague, you for sure chose correctly.
    Second the fact you chose the right outfit.

    I also feel that article is very slanted, starting with the headline...these things happen, and they would happen a lot more if the guides and people involved with AK Heli (and other outfits) were not as skilled and knowledgeable as they are.

    Nobody is perfect, but it is fucking Heli-Skiing in AK. What the hell do people expect? The mountains are vast and the area is expansive and by no way fool proof. Very sad what happened, either way.

    From my limited time in Haines, many locals actually want the Heli Ops out of town even though they provide an amazing late winter boost to their economy. Always made me scratch my head.
    You should have been here yesterday!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyj View Post
    While I don't know the details, this blows me away. Accidents happen, despite our best efforts at mitigating the risk. When they're caused by "failures to meet standards for safe operations", they're screwups not accidents, and those involved deserve to have the hammer brought down.

    It's important to note that she wasn't saying they were unsafe, only that even if their negligence contributed to a fatality, that wouldn't necessarily be cause for revoking their permit.
    From reading the article, it sounds like the "failures to meet standards for safe operations" was due to the guide testing positive for THC. I didn't see any other violations (although maybe they just weren't mentioned). If that's all it was, I'm not surprised they took the action they did.

    If every public lands permit for commercial recreation got pulled when there were safety violations, there wouldn't be any guides left. It's often a pain in the ass to get those passes, and there's often a significant financial outlay. Pulling a permit for safety violations should be viewed through the lens of the real world. And this isn't to say AK Heli should escape liability if they actually did something wrong. Like Lindahl said, the family can pursue this through the normal channels.

  14. #14
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    Sorry got cut off. Anyways, is the number of skier days impacted I. This decision. Wondering if they cut it down. The article mentions a 1,600 for Ak heli and 1000 for SEABA. Seeing how that compares to last few years.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowTron View Post
    Second the fact you chose the right outfit.

    I also feel that article is very slanted, starting with the headline...these things happen, and they would happen a lot more if the guides and people involved with AK Heli (and other outfits) were not as skilled and knowledgeable as they are.

    Nobody is perfect, but it is fucking Heli-Skiing in AK. What the hell do people expect? The mountains are vast and the area is expansive and by no way fool proof. Very sad what happened, either way.

    From my limited time in Haines, many locals actually want the Heli Ops out of town even though they provide an amazing late winter boost to their economy. Always made me scratch my head.
    The area is so big they fly out of it? Alaskans are funny that way, good for the economy or not drunken outsiders (weather days) draw a lot of ire. If the heli ops are owned by outsiders then there's another reason the locals don't like them.
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chugachjed View Post
    The area is so big they fly out of it?
    Nobody here knows anything except what was presented in that one page article. Obviously I don't know what the context of 'flying outside their area' means but I do know that AK Heli contracts both the birds and the pilots through Coastal Heli. Those helis are on GPS tracking every minute of the day which makes it pretty visible if the pilot was to choose to fly to an illegal area. I don't think the operation has as much cowboy freedom to fly wherever they want as people seem to believe. I've been dropped off literally 50 yards from a no fly/land zone. Why do people love to make huge leaps in judgement based on in-concise and limited information?
    Last edited by DudeLebowSKI; 02-13-2013 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Clarification
    First 360 mute grab --> Andrew Sheppard --> Snowdrifters 1996

  17. #17
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    People dying make arguments tough. RIP, lets hope for a safe season for everyone.
    Nobody wants to die, even if you are "doing what you love"

  18. #18
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    The article mentions 2 specific incidents where they flew out of area. Why are you so quick to defend them without evidence?
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chugachjed View Post
    The article mentions 2 specific incidents where they flew out of area. Why are you so quick to defend them without evidence?
    Everyone here knows I'm a client of theirs. Flying outside of their permitted area could mean alot of different things and that there are no specific details of those incidents. Plus there is no mention of whether any of those violations have anything to do with running a safe operation.

    I am choosing not to jump to conclusions based on the broadly generalized vocabulary in that article. I am also saying that I don't think those out of area incidents could be that serious because the heli pilot and coastal heli would have to answer for it. The guide isn't flying the bird. In the end neither one of us know exactly what happened BUT the people responsible for handing out the permits decided in their favor.

    Why are you so quick to condemn based on this one page article? Is everyone part of a big multi layered conspiracy? Accidents happen.

    Sent via Nerdroid
    First 360 mute grab --> Andrew Sheppard --> Snowdrifters 1996

  20. #20
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    Everyone? I disagree, I had no idea. I'm not condemning anyone's business at all. The whole thing just seems curious to me.

    This pdf has an article that confirms the GPS boundary violations. 3 for seaba and 2 for Alaska heli skiing.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http%3A %2F%2Fwww.chilkatvalleynews.com%2Fcms_data%2Fdfaul t%2Fphotos%2Fstories%2F3623%2F9882112.pdf&ei=RzIcU amdC8m7iwK-q4CwCg&usg=AFQjCNG_TbDg6DHs7KqUqxbQjatgu8iUmg
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chugachjed View Post
    Everyone? I disagree, I had no idea. I'm not condemning anyone's business at all. The whole thing just seems curious to me.

    This pdf has an article that confirms the GPS boundary violations. 3 for seaba and 2 for Alaska heli skiing.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...qxbQjatgu8iUmg
    Apologies. I assumed you were questioning my motives based on, my feelings about the operation which is totally valid.

    I too am curious but all I can say for sure is what I have experienced with AK Heli. Having done over 120 heli drops over the course of 4 seasons, I have never once felt that skier safety wasn't the absolute top priority.

    Sent via Nerdroid
    First 360 mute grab --> Andrew Sheppard --> Snowdrifters 1996

  22. #22
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    There are rules on state land?
    Its not that I suck at spelling, its that I just don't care

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    on a more serious note: what WILL be the results of this. --> have I booked myself into the 30° dentist camp (or worse the rich russian beginner camp) I desperately tried to avoid with AK Heli? I chose them because the maggots told me so. (and because they are the only ones i could afford. If barely so.)
    You'll probably end up skiing the best runs of your life with very safe and capable guides.
    I've got the key to the highway... I'm gonna leave here runnin', walkin's far too slow

  24. #24
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    I know. but I needed the assurance because right now were having such decent conditions right here, I was doing 40-45° spine and sluff training right of the chairlift the other day.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chugachjed View Post
    The article mentions 2 specific incidents where they flew out of area. Why are you so quick to defend them without evidence?
    I unfortunately don't have time to respond to any of this indepth....But

    One of the incidents from last year - A client accidentally followed backcountry skiers' tracks and skied farther down valley then instructed. Obviously, not to just leave him there, the rest of the group skied down and established a new PZ that unfortunately deviated from established flight path guidelines.

    I'm not sure the other deviation but maybe when I have more time I can jump back in here.

    Marshal knows whats up. As always.
    Drive slow, homie.

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