Budget dropper posts

[Self Jupiter]

Move a decimal point to the left and you’ve got the kind of riding we do here in MA

[Dantheman]

I think you all are missing the point. When we say that we don't feel a dropper is necessary or all that helpful its because most of our riding is grinding entirely uphill for 1000'+, and then riding straight down 1000'+. At the top of a climb i usually grab some water, catch my breath and enjoy a view for a couple minutes... plenty of time to use a QR to drop the post. And then shuttle and bike park days take up probably 10% of my riding days, and a dropper is just a liability for those.

I understood your position completely. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

There is another group of people, dwindling in number but quite vocal, that consider them wholly unnecessary. Those people's opinions regarding anything descent-related can be dismissed out of hand.

[buttahflake]

I’m thinking about putting one on my gravel rig. That’s how awesome they are. Some of the class 4/6 roads would be way more fun without the saddle in the way.

[Bushwacka]

That is EXACTLY the kind of riding that made dropper posts a game changer. Sounds like desert riding?

Vermont...

[SchralphMacchio]

I understood your position completely. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

Actually a lot of Oakridge trails are just like that, 3000’ constant grade fire road uphills and then 3000’ downhills with 1-2 climbs where it’s not the end of the end of the world to dismount and adjust QR.

But then our XC areas like Waldo Lake are so rolling and rooty that it would be possible but sooooo much less fun to ride them without a dropper.

[californiagrown]

Actually a lot of Oakridge trails are just like that, 3000’ constant grade fire road uphills and then 3000’ downhills with 1-2 climbs where it’s not the end of the end of the world to dismount and adjust QR.

But then our XC areas like Waldo Lake are so rolling and rooty that it would be possible but sooooo much less fun to ride them without a dropper.

Anytime im climbing for more than 10 minutes in big gear, I doubt id feel put out to stop for literally 5 seconds and drop my post with a QR as opposed to using a dropper. The one or two short punchy climbs on my downhill trails are short, so you end up out of the saddle hammering up for 15- 20 seconds, and then back to descending for 5 minutes... no need for a dropper there either. The rolly trails or trails with super short laps (1-2mins) i totally see the need for a dropper.

[Dantheman]

Actually a lot of Oakridge trails are just like that, 3000’ constant grade fire road uphills and then 3000’ downhills with 1-2 climbs where it’s not the end of the end of the world to dismount and adjust QR.

Obviously everyone's calculus is different, but for me, mid-descent climbs >0 = dropper

Even QRs can be problematic these days. There are a lot of frames out there that will not allow 150 mm of seatpost adjustment with a conventional seatpost (e.g., Boissal's post).


ETA: The argument against droppers seems to boil down to 1) cost, 2) weight, and 3) complexity/failure potential:

1) Meh, there are great droppers available now that cost as much as a set of good tires.
2) We're talking at the very, very most 1 lb of sprung frame weight. Negative fucks given.
3) Maybe I've just been lucky, but this has been a non-issue for me. Of course, I was also never dumb enough to buy a Reverb

[skaredshtles]

Obviously everyone's calculus is different, but for me, mid-descent climbs >0 = dropper

Even QRs can be problematic these days. There are a lot of frames out there that will not allow 150 mm of seatpost adjustment with a conventional seatpost (i.e., Boissal's post).

[skaredshtles]

<snip>
3) Maybe I've just been lucky, but this has been a non-issue for me. Of course, I was also never dumb enough to buy a Reverb

I still take a fixed post on trips with me... mainly because I *was* dumb enough to buy a Reverb...

[EWG]

Personally, I think there are a few things going on:

1. Droppers let you ride faster and better. For example, my lovely wife immediately started downhilling 25% faster when I installed a dropper on her bike. Seriously. Within three days.
2. People who are very skilled at riding without droppers have a whole series of complex moves they've learned designed to overcome the seat being in the way. Cornering, steep tech stuff, fast downhills, etc are all an exercise in moving your butt around the saddle without hitting it. None of this is as good as dropping the seat though.
3. Once you start getting used to the dropper you lose all those skills (cause you aren't using them.) So going back to fixed saddles sucks.
4. It's nice to have a seat to push your leg against (which you don't have when you drop the saddle), but you get over this at some point once you get used to it.

On point 4 - I'm not there. On long, twisty downhills I don't drop the saddle all the way - I drop it as far as I can and still have leg contact. It's like a security blanket. I can ride with it all the way down just fine, but I'm less confident. Kinda like the feeling of downhilling with the foot you normally have forward in the back. Works fine but feels weird.

And shut up. You all have a foot your prefer to have forward.

[Bushwacka]

I have been trying to ride with my weak foot forward when with slower ridesr to get rid of the preference.....

I think there is a huge difference between pushing the saddle into you(not so bad), and pushing your leg into the saddle to get the bike to tip.(pretty shit). The first one locks you into place on your bike, which is not always the best place to ride.

[Danno]

Do you drop the seat to corner? Even on "flat" type trails?

Nope. But TBH, my dropper is pretty shitty (KS eTen) and is slow AF, so I am guessing that is part of why I feel like I am not in need of a dropper. Because the notion of seeing a corner coming up and having the time to hit the dropper in time for anything to happen, then to hit it again to return to a pedaling position seems ludicrous to me. But I'm also a complete hack on the bike, so YMMV.

I think you all are missing the point. When we say that we don't feel a dropper is necessary or all that helpful its because most of our riding is grinding entirely uphill for 1000'+, and then riding straight down 1000'+. At the top of a climb i usually grab some water, catch my breath and enjoy a view for a couple minutes... plenty of time to use a QR to drop the post. And then shuttle and bike park days take up probably 10% of my riding days, and a dropper is just a liability for those.

This is pretty much what I ride. I certainly enjoy the dropper on my most regular ride (West Mag for those who know it), because it is nice to be able to raise the seat for the couple of short pedally sections in the middle of the big descent, but it doesn't feel like the game changer y'all describe.

[skaredshtles]

Nope.

There ya go!

[jono]

Nope. But TBH, my dropper is pretty shitty (KS eTen) and is slow AF, so I am guessing that is part of why I feel like I am not in need of a dropper. Because the notion of seeing a corner coming up and having the time to hit the dropper in time for anything to happen, then to hit it again to return to a pedaling position seems ludicrous to me. But I'm also a complete hack on the bike, so YMMV.

If you decide to change the KS out for one that does what you want it to do, try the One-Up. Very impressive in terms of force/speed in addition to the noted longer travel and, in keeping with this thread title, relatively cheap. More than a Brand X (which is kind of slow, heavy and hard to compress...wanna buy mine?) but less than one of those hydraulic dumpster fires and much better.

[californiagrown]

Obviously everyone's calculus is different, but for me, mid-descent climbs >0 = dropper

Even QRs can be problematic these days. There are a lot of frames out there that will not allow 150 mm of seatpost adjustment with a conventional seatpost (e.g., Boissal's post).


ETA: The argument against droppers seems to boil down to 1) cost, 2) weight, and 3) complexity/failure potential:

1) Meh, there are great droppers available now that cost as much as a set of good tires.
2) We're talking at the very, very most 1 lb of sprung frame weight. Negative fucks given.
3) Maybe I've just been lucky, but this has been a non-issue for me. Of course, I was also never dumb enough to buy a Reverb

Almost all "climbs" on my downhill trails are punchy little 15 -30 second sprints which i would do out of the saddle anyways so i can keep some speed into the next section.

1) You are buying tires from the wrong places at the wrong times if you are paying that much for tires (im not even talking about Bro-deals here). Also, depending on the dropper, some are not real easy to install and setup.

2) Agreed, weight is overrated. That said, removing 1lb of weight does help... how much is debatable. I typically bring double the water i actually need and i weigh 200lbs so saving 1lb is negligible for me.

3) Cramming bikes together for shuttles, crashes, general abuse and lack of maintenance all combine to make droppers another finicky, easily breakable part on my bike. I have too many of those already haha. What really put it over the top for me was when the brake on my dropper started failing and it would rise up at random times while descending. It completely failed at Whistler and i had to essentially break it to keep it down so my bike was rideable for the next day and a half. Some people have good luck with droppers, some don't. Id rather idiot proof my bike as much as possible because an idiot rides it. I might keep the seatpost around for some longer alpine rides where there is a lot of ridgeline traversing and more undulating terrain, but use the conventional post for 95%+ of my rides where its just straight up then straight down.

[GiBo]

I find the argument completely silly. My old bike had no dropper. My new bike has a dropper. I hardly ever moved my seat for short downhill or turny sections on my old bike. I use the dropper all the time now and it's makes riding more fun. And it's a god awful reverb to boot! Been working fine so far. If it breaks I'll buy a new one. Game changer? Naw. Fun and worth having? Hell yes. If breakage and weight are the only arguments against droppers, well I'm sorry, but that's kinda funny.

[skaredshtles]

<snip> it's a god awful reverb to boot! Been working fine so far. When it breaks I'll buy a new one.

FIXED!

[SchralphMacchio]

Californiagrown, all reasons to get an external cable dropper that’s easy-on / easy-off so you can pull it off and run a standard post for shuttle and bike park days!

Our mid descent climbs are much more than 15-30 seconds. Between 100 to 400’ up mid descent. And usually 2 of them on some of the popular trails.

[Dantheman]

Almost all "climbs" on my downhill trails are punchy little 15 -30 second sprints which i would do out of the saddle anyways so i can keep some speed into the next section.

1) You are buying tires from the wrong places at the wrong times if you are paying that much for tires (im not even talking about Bro-deals here). Also, depending on the dropper, some are not real easy to install and setup.

2) Agreed, weight is overrated. That said, removing 1lb of weight does help... how much is debatable. I typically bring double the water i actually need and i weigh 200lbs so saving 1lb is negligible for me.

3) Cramming bikes together for shuttles, crashes, general abuse and lack of maintenance all combine to make droppers another finicky, easily breakable part on my bike. I have too many of those already haha. What really put it over the top for me was when the brake on my dropper started failing and it would rise up at random times while descending. It completely failed at Whistler and i had to essentially break it to keep it down so my bike was rideable for the next day and a half. Some people have good luck with droppers, some don't. Id rather idiot proof my bike as much as possible because an idiot rides it. I might keep the seatpost around for some longer alpine rides where there is a lot of ridgeline traversing and more undulating terrain, but use the conventional post for 95%+ of my rides where its just straight up then straight down.

Completely serious question, since I have no idea what bike you ride: Have you actually used your bike with a conventional seatpost? Minimum insertion depth for most posts is ~100 mm. So, to drop your seat 150 mm for descending you need at least 250 mm of uninterrupted seat tube, which is a lot. I'd highly recommend you measure this.

[Dantheman]

Our mid descent climbs are much more than 15-30 seconds. Between 100 to 400’ up mid descent. And usually 2 of them on some of the popular trails.

Yeah, a 30-second grade reversal is not a "climb."

[californiagrown]

Completely serious question, since I have no idea what bike you ride: Have you actually used your bike with a conventional seatpost? Minimum insertion depth for most posts is ~100 mm. So, to drop your seat 150 mm for descending you need at least 250 mm of uninterrupted seat tube, which is a lot. I'd highly recommend you measure this.

Havent tried it on my current bike. That said, my 170mm dropper is completely slammed all the way down on my current bike (2017 slayer), and i nearly slammed my 150mm dropper when i had an Enduro 29. Im tall, but have a relatively short inseam.

Also, recommended minimum insertion depths for conventional seatposts is a total joke. Those crazy depths are prescribed for folks who ride up, down and all around never taking their butts off the seat or dropping the post. I just need a seatpost to support me spinning up smooth trail... anytime a climb gets tech, im getting out of the saddle to get up it. As i did on the bike i had before using droppers, you just take a hacksaw and cut down the post leaving about 2" of insertion at full extension. I am positive there are more than 2" below the 170mm end of my dropper post when the mechanicals and cable bend are taken into account.

[californiagrown]

Californiagrown, all reasons to get an external cable dropper that’s easy-on / easy-off so you can pull it off and run a standard post for shuttle and bike park days!

Our mid descent climbs are much more than 15-30 seconds. Between 100 to 400’ up mid descent. And usually 2 of them on some of the popular trails.

yup, i think the wireless AXS droppers would fit the bill even better, minus the exorbitant cost haha.

[skaredshtles]

Yeah, a 30-second grade reversal is not a "climb."

We've got a couple of these on one of our *really* fun local "down" trails (Enchanted Forest for those familiar) - and it's pretty damned nice to be able to pop the seat up, grind out the 30s climb, then drop 'er back down. So useful... even in those situations, IMO.

[Dantheman]

just take a hacksaw and cut down the post leaving about 2" of insertion at full extension.

You'd run this bike:



With only 2" of seatpost inserted while weighing 200 lbs? Fuck. That. Shit. I don't think you fully appreciate the amount leverage generated by a seatpost that has an extended length:inserted length ratio >3.

my 170mm dropper is completely slammed all the way down on my current bike...I am positive there are more than 2" below the 170mm end of my dropper post when the mechanicals and cable bend are taken into account.

Um, yeah, that's the point. If it's slammed your dropper has 4+ inches inserted into the seat tube, which drastically reduces the leverage ratio and resulting force on the seat tube.

We've got a couple of these on one of our *really* fun local "down" trails (Enchanted Forest for those familiar) - and it's pretty damned nice to be able to pop the seat up, grind out the 30s climb, then drop 'er back down. So useful... even in those situations, IMO.

Depending on my mood I may or may not pop my seat for something that short, but no way I'd eliminate having the option.

[skaredshtles]

I don't think you fully appreciate the amount leverage generated by a seatpost that has an extended length:inserted length ratio >3.

He may not appreciate it now... but I suspect he WILL appreciate it at some point in the not-too-distant future if he goes down this route.