Dynafit JONG problems: heel rotates out absurdly easily.

[RootSkier]

I have some Radical STs that I just mounted. I followed the instructions on wildsnow, shimmed everything properly, and set both the horizontal and vertical din. Everything lines up and looks good. The problem is that it is ridiculously easy to twist my heel out, even when I crank both DINs to the 9-10 range.

They came with brakes, which I did not install. Is this part of the problem?

Thanks for your help (I searched and read everything at wildsnow before asking this JONGish question, FWIW).

[GeezerSteve]

Verts with brakes come with softer lateral release springs than verts w/o brakes. If you don't have the non-brake springs, you might be able to make up for it by pre-loading with a washer a la FT12.

[RootSkier]

OK, thanks.

I saw another discussion where it seemed people thought it only made an ~1 DIN difference. These are super, super, super easy to twist out of...seems like a huge difference.

I should probably just find some properly sized brake arms.

[jamesp]

Radicals had that rotation pin thing that had issues, is it this? I think it was only the first year Radicals, & Dynafit were supplying new pins to fix. They are only meant to twist one way, do yours rotate both directions?

[RootSkier]

Yes. Starting from ski position, I can rotate them 270 degrees the "wrong" way.

I did buy these used from a mag, not sure what vintage they are exactly.

[Jethro]

Are you sure the thimble is not binding or hanging up? Do you have all the springs in? On my wife's STs, there is a smaller spring inside the larger spring.

[slobmonster]

Something's definitely amiss.

Would suggest taking apart one heel unit completely. And comparing against what would otherwise be a complete heel unit...

try here for some referencel

What width brakes do you need?? I might have some somewhere in this pile...

[jamesp]

if they rotate the wrong way then look into the pin issue. I think the article on replacing the pins is on Wildsnow (?). The replacement pins should be easy to get from dynafit, it didn't sound like a big deal to fix.

[RootSkier]

Yes, I had already disassembed a heel to see if both springs are present. They are in both heels, and the issue is the same with both heels (I didn't take the yellow thimble out, but it's in there).

I guess I need 110 brake arms (skis are 114) if anyone reading has some lying around.

Looking into the pin issue -- but man, this is annoying.



Edit: Just read this post re the pin issue: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...in-replacement

I definitely have the new pins installed, and springs are present. Hmmm...

[SB]

Depending which year Rads, you may have to buy the entire base. If its last years Rads the vertical brakes should fit.

[RootSkier]

Update on the turning the wrong way issue: they only do it from ski position. So I can turn them 270 degrees the wrong way from ski position, but if I turn them 90 degrees to touring position, they won't turn back around the "wrong" way and will only continue back towards forward in the same direction as indicated by the arrow.

I don't know if that makes sense, but I think it's how they are supposed to work.

Nothing appears cracked or broken. Guess I'll take them to the shop...

[1000-oaks]

^That's how they're supposed to work, otherwise they'd only release one direction when skiing.

[RootSkier]

Yeah, I know. Which clearly indicates I have no idea WTF is happening with them.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Years ago I bought a pair of TLT Speeds that had this problem. I replaced the thimble bushings and they were as good as new. The bushings didn't have any visible wear, but when I removed the springs, stuck my finger in the housing, and wiggled the bushing around with my finger, it was clear that the bushing was worn, and there was play in the system that was allowing the heel to rotate too easily. This probably isn't the same problem on the Radicals unless they've seen a lot of use, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[Mr. Toad]

I'm the guy who sold you the bindings and like I mentioned it the pm, I'll make things right for you. I can assure you I used these w/o any problems.

Did you actually ski these and have pre-releases? or does it just feel too soft on the bench?

When you turn the heel piece at DIN of 7 or 8, it should feel like opening a radiator / gas cap, ie pretty easy to turn. It may feel too soft for you if you've never used a Dfit before. It shouldn't feel like alpine binding spring.

The beauty of the Dynafit is the minimal moving parts, and from what you're describing it looks like everything checks out.

edit:

shimmed everything properly

What sort of shims are you using? I didn't use any shims.

I did buy these used from a mag, not sure what vintage they are exactly.

Those are the first edition. I upgraded the pins to the new breakaway type before there were any issues. The brakes are the non-integraded type that don't require you to remove the heel plates.

I saw another discussion where it seemed people thought it only made an ~1 DIN difference.

I don't think its the brakes because the Radicals use sliding AFD's and shouldn't increase the friction that much.

[1000-oaks]

I'm guessing the bindings are probably fine, and you're just expecting the heels to be harder to rotate than they really are.

[RootSkier]

Mr. Toad, the shim for spacing the heel piece fore and aft. Also, thanks for the PM and other feedback. I am sure this is just user error in some form or another.

And 1000-oaks, I wish. If I put the boot on and put it in the binding, it requires almost no effort to turn my heel out.

[Mr. Toad]

You're not using an old pair of Scarpa TX's are you? They had a manufacture's defect where the front clamps wouldn't engage completely.

[wooley12]

I posted the same concerns about the ease of heel rotation when I mounted my first Dynafits. From the sounds of your post, all is normal there. By design, the heels are a lot harder to spin when you ski them. Real easy to do it on the bench with a boot in.

[Jethro]

I posted the same concerns about the ease of heel rotation when I mounted my first Dynafits. From the sounds of your post, all is normal there. By design, the heels are a lot harder to spin when you ski them. Real easy to do it on the bench with a boot in.

This is true. I peg my Dynafits at 12, which is not very high for a guy my size. They are easy to rotate, but not as easy as my wife's at setting 4.5

[GeezerSteve]

Where is the thimble bushing?

[RootSkier]

It's in there.

The recent posts have me wondering I have invented a problem that doesn't even exist...but it just doesn't seem right. I can literally put the boot in the binding (while wearing it) and twist my heel out with almost no effort.

[Mr. Toad]

This seems obvious but I'm sure you've checked the rear spacing with the little white plastic tool?

Something tells me there might be a problem with the front engagement. Even with no resistance, the heel shouldn't fall off that easily if the front pinchers are properly engaged. Only the pins should touch the boots, not the arms. Like I mentioned above, some boots had this problem. Try engaging only the toe in ski mode ie 1 click and shake the ski side to side. It should stay on with moderate movement, should fall off if you shake it hard.

[GeezerSteve]

It's less confusing to use the term "feeler gauge."

Root, you might install new thimble bushings just for good measure, whether or not you need them. Be sure to liberally grease 'em.

[Johnny Deep]

Pull the bushing out and check to see if it's damaged. It could be the issue. Even if it's rounded it can cause issues.