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  1. #101
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    Jan 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    just wanting a binding that properly functions. i still don't see that binding out there, and its super frustrating.
    Are rumours still floating of Solomon coming out with a tech binding?

  2. #102
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    retired
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    12,465
    hugh, i honestly don't understand what you are talking about.

    but feel free to read the beast thread where i was pretty negative about it, despite lee and toby's love.

    or just continue jumping to unfounded conclusions.



    recap:
    everyone loves the fritshi despite no skiable prototype
    marshal expresses concern once function is public, specifically about it having about the same total lateral elasticity as its "competition"
    I expand on my concerns about total elastic travel being every bit as relevant, if not more so, then where that elasticity is located.
    hugh calls me out with unfounded personal attacks
    the end.
    Last edited by marshalolson; 10-28-2013 at 08:41 PM.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    WA
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    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    Are rumours still floating of Solomon coming out with a tech binding?
    Never heard this rumor.

    I did see that Rossignol/Look is releasing a re-branded Plum touring binding. (euro only?)

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    165
    It says here http://alpine-guides-blog.com/ that the Trab binding will be available this year...

    'the long awaited Trab Binding System is finally being launched this winter. The Trab TR2 is a very well designed, solid piece of kit – made wholly of metal (rather than the large amounts of plastic seen in the Vipec above). Furthermore it actually exists, having been developed and refined over several years – there’s a youtube video of it in action here. It weighs in at just 580g a binding including the stopper, which is the same as a Dynafit Radical – but you get a full alpine binding sideways toe release, DIN settings from 7-13 and far better stiffness and control because the binding clamps down fully at the heel, rather than just resting on two prongs like all other pin binding systems. The binding also looks very easy to use and allows changeover from ski to walk mode without removing the ski – so a long list of positives here.

    But – and it’s a big but – you need a new set of boots to go with the bindings - ie they are not compatible with Dynafit style inserts on current boots. I personally think this is probably the best lightweight binding system around now, but how quickly and whether it catches on is going to be the big question, as you’ll need to purchase a set of Scarpa Spirit TR2 Boots at the same time as your new bindings in order to buy into the system. In case you are wondering, the boot is a basically the Scarpa Rush (a 3 buckle version of the Scarpa Maestrale), with TR2 inserts at the heel, instead of Dynafit inserts.'

    Edit: Video showing the degree of toe elasticity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0b4nc72h5k

    2nd Edit: I suspect that the reference to 'DIN' in the blog post may be a mistake, rather than implying that the Trab binding will be DIN certified.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    78° 41′ 0″ N, 16° 24′ 0″ E
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    Quote Originally Posted by skimaxpower View Post
    Never heard this rumor.

    I did see that Rossignol/Look is releasing a re-branded Plum touring binding. (euro only?)
    Rumors have been heard. Perfect timing too, as they've recently rereleased their tech-compatible boots.

    Marker should be looking into this too, as the Duke sells really badly and they should be positioning themselves in an expanding market.

    Here's hoping for as much competition as possible.
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Innsbruck, Austria
    Posts
    725
    ooh that TRAB looks sexy....

  7. #107
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    Sep 2010
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    Golden, Colorado
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    5,868
    Quote Originally Posted by sqikunst View Post
    ooh that TRAB looks sexy....
    But it won't sell in the US where boots are extremely important. They need to figure that out.

  8. #108
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    Oct 2008
    Location
    Golden, CO
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    So ... what about some combination of this style toe and a Dynafit heel heel?
    Does one or the other NEED to be fixed for the bindings to be functional or useable?

    (absolute tech binding novice, just interested in the discussion)

  9. #109
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    33,546
    Quote Originally Posted by sqikunst View Post
    ooh that TRAB looks sexy....
    Looks to me like it is specifically designed to fill with snow and ice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  10. #110
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    Nov 2007
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    Eburg
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    13,243
    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    recap:
    everyone loves the fritshi despite no skiable prototype
    Nah. Optimistic speculation =/= luv. And not everyone is even doing that. Plenty of wait-and-see skeptics posting on this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    but you are not gaining overall lateral elasticty in the system. [devils advocate]
    Well, the Vipec very obviously introduces fore-aft elasticity via a compression spring that keeps the rear binding fixture kissed up against the boot heel as the ski flexes. This appears to be an attempt to address issues resulting from Dynafit/Plum bindings' crude fore-aft sliding-heel-pins-in-boot-heel-insert and resultant ever-changing vertical release value as the heel pin lever length effectively shortens and lengthens as the ski flexes. So, of you are indeed talking about "overall elasticity in the system," why dismiss away the Vipec's apparent advancement re fore-aft elasticity?

    ETA: And are you sure that the Vipec has zero lateral elasticity at the heel? I haven't seen any evidence one way or another.
    Last edited by Big Steve; 10-29-2013 at 10:41 AM.

  11. #111
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    Oct 2005
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    Sandy
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    Got to play with the Vipec this morning and ask a few questions.

    So people have been skiing the Vipec since this spring and they sent them down South to get time on them.

    The other cool thing is the toe wings are mounted on a self centering rail, so the toe can move latterly while still keeping you clamped in.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  12. #112
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    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bern, CH
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    346
    Quote Originally Posted by sfotex View Post
    The other cool thing is the toe wings are mounted on a self centering rail, so the toe can move latterly while still keeping you clamped in.
    Oh rly???

  13. #113
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    Sep 2010
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    SW CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfotex View Post
    Got to play with the Vipec this morning and ask a few questions.

    So people have been skiing the Vipec since this spring and they sent them down South to get time on them.

    The other cool thing is the toe wings are mounted on a self centering rail, so the toe can move latterly while still keeping you clamped in.
    Did you ask the million dollar question: is there any elasticity in the heel?
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    4,547
    will it be bionic?
    b
    .

  15. #115
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    Oct 2005
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    Sandy
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Did you ask the million dollar question: is there any elasticity in the heel?
    Yes, the rep said no as far as he knows. The fore-aft dealio in the heel has more to do with DIN certification then 'elasticity' per se.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  16. #116
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sfotex View Post
    So people have been skiing the Vipec since this spring and they sent them down South to get time on them.
    according to this thread, since January at least:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jax View Post
    Testers are on snow in Yurp right now.
    it's ok, the great marshal missed it to.

  17. #117
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Zurich
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    121
    The Vipec got its own fancy-ass webpage: http://www.vipec.ch/

    A new bit of info is found there: you will be able to buy colored plastic clips to individualize the color scheme of your binding

  18. #118
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    Dec 2010
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    ut
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    939
    Quote Originally Posted by selle View Post
    The Vipec got its own fancy-ass webpage: http://www.vipec.ch/

    A new bit of info is found there: you will be able to buy colored plastic clips to individualize the color scheme of your binding
    The Euro English is strong on that page!

  19. #119
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    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiSt View Post

    Marker should be looking into this too, as the Duke sells really badly and they should be positioning themselves in an expanding market.
    I am really not sure about this statement. I doubt they are selling really badly. Look around your ski hill.

    I do also wonder at how many companies are jumping into this "expanding" market. I mean is it really? I mean sure. But expanding from like 0.5 to 1% of the market? I mean I am happy that they are for sure as I think the dynafit setup is looooong past an update. But you know.

  20. #120
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    I am really not sure about this statement. I doubt they are selling really badly. Look around your ski hill.

    I do also wonder at how many companies are jumping into this "expanding" market. I mean is it really? I mean sure. But expanding from like 0.5 to 1% of the market? I mean I am happy that they are for sure as I think the dynafit setup is looooong past an update. But you know.
    Just something I've heard. Can't say where it came from though.

    I think they've been partially taken by solly/atomic, a lot of people have moved to tech, and they've cannibalized sales with the tour 10/12. Apparently there's a beefier binding in the works, which will only work with din-soles called the Diablo. Makes a lot more sense to me as the adjustable toe sucks imo.

    If (and this is a big if) the vipec and especially the beast function as they say that they will, there's just no reason to hang on to plate bindings at all for freeride skiers with even a slight inclination for touring.

    Alpine binding if you have a dedicated inbounds setup, sure, but plate-type touring bindings? Why the hell would you?

    And this market is pretty significant, at least here in Norway. (which I know best, but also in Europe) Seems that Hoji has opened a lot of people's eyes.
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  21. #121
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    Dec 2009
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    Makes sense on the Norway thing.

    Still, most people that buy plate touring bindings tour like once or twice a year on them, so being able to have a single ski setup that is not really a compromise from the lifts but has the ability to do that infrequent tour. I mean if you tour less than 5 days a year why have another full setup. I am inclined to believe even a burly tech binding might not be the best for day to day hammering.

    That is the market that Marker opened up. It remains to be seen how many people are really interested in burly tech type bindings.

    I actually think the manufacturers need to do themselves a favor and have a group think tank. Changing fittings in isolation from one another seems like bad news (trab). The current system needs to change to improve I think, but it would be best to have a consensus otherwise it will be a shit show.

  22. #122
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Still, most people that buy plate touring bindings tour like once or twice a year on them
    I think that's a very North American oriented view of things (or just TGR oriented) and North America hasn't been, historically, a large portion of the touring market at all. I'm not sure how much Marker "opened up" the liftline poser market as much as converted more of the market who'd bought or would have bought Fritschi/Naxo's in the past. < shrug >

    I guess some new Tech standard might be nice but I've no clue how to preserve simplicity/low weight and make it better than a DIN sole. Not sure other innovations do either.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    I think that's a very North American oriented view of things (or just TGR oriented) and North America hasn't been, historically, a large portion of the touring market at all. I'm not sure how much Marker "opened up" the liftline poser market as much as converted more of the market who'd bought Fritschi/Naxo's in the past. < shrug >
    Fair point. There certainly are some interesting market segments here. I wonder how many dukes sold in Europe................

    Based on Tahoe evidence it is very much lift line poser, that tours once or twice a year. But that seems like a solid offering to me.

    To make a no compromise inbounds setup that you can occasionally tour on when you are not worried about bagging the most possible vert seems like where the meat of the market segment is, at least for north america. So I won't bash Marker for identifying it.

    A solid offering for people that tour allot is certainly another segment, and agreed, in Europe it maybe be larger. But they ski with their feet together on sunbaked snow anyway so why do they need anything better than dynafit

  24. #124
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    On wildsnow Lou quoted a touring binding mfger who stated that the NA market was only the size of an EU country
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #125
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    Feb 2005
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    North Vancouver/Whistler
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    Whistler Blackcomb have lots of people who have plate bindings and tour on them; often very frequently. Friends in CH tell me that Fritschi/Marker also do the same. There is a lot of backcountry touring available from the lifts in those places so maybe that's why this happens. Even the TGR-disdain for Fritschi Freerides is not representative of what is out there

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