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Thread: Forward lean

  1. #1
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    Forward lean

    Why exactly is stance on boots becoming more upright? Example new kryptons have more upright stance.
    I assume its a reaction to changing ski profiles or is it something else? Does this make it easier on your body or style? I always thought a fwd stance would help keep knees bent and ready. Just curious I guess.

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    It makes it easier to stand in line at the bar.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  3. #3
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    skis have gone from 205, to 170, and with more sidecut. The movement needed to turn them is more lateral (side to side) and less forward (no need to bend a 205 tip, now with a 170 ski with more sidecut)


  4. #4
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    A true follower of the GSA has boots with much forward lean to necessitate the toe-up stance when standing around.

    I guess with a lot more people touring sidecountry and short tours with alpine boots, maybe it makes sense. It doesn't if you like to drive your skis.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  5. #5
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    Doesn't a more upright stance give you more boot to drive into?

    What Mntlion said - movements are more lateral (tune into EpicSki for far too much detail on overly-analyzed mechanics).

    I like the more upright stance. It took me a few runs to adjust to the combination of more upright cuff combined with less ramp angle, but now I wouldn't go back.
    Who cares how the crow flies

  6. #6
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    Atomic, with the Redster anyway, is going in the opposite direction. I can see for touring it might be better, but not for skiin hard. The atomics are between 16-18 degrees iirc. I tried on some WC 170's as well as some offerings from tecnica, Lange, Rossi etc and it was noticeable.
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    Standing taller increases the availability of women that will likely go home with you.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    I guess with a lot more people touring sidecountry and short tours with alpine boots, maybe it makes sense. It doesn't if you like to drive your skis.
    This statement seems overly general. The important thing is to have boots that allow you to pressure forward through the turn. If you have good ankle flexion, more lean will feel natural and athletic, but if you have poorer ankle flexion a boot that's too forward will cause the ROM to be maxed at a point before pressure can be applied. The skier's biomechanics play a role for sure. Also keep in mind that a stiff boot with more lean can achieve similar angles to a softer boot with less lean.

    In a softer snow setting, being able to come back to neutral is important to allow the skis to float.

    So yeah, more upright boots aren't just for gapers.

  9. #9
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    we were playing with boot fit in the kitchen and a ski tuning/boot fitting bud told me I had too much forward lean and his reason was that my ass stuck out so he put a 1" stack of magazines under the toes of my boots and it felt better

  10. #10
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    Most skiers suck... and feel more comfortable standing upright.

  11. #11
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  12. #12
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    it takes a better skier to ski an upright boot well. any asshole can rail the tips when you have 20 degrees of forward lean built in. i for one love the upright stance, krypton kr2s with the rear wedge pulled out, something like 8 degrees i think? really works well with the Hoji, super easy to pivot and smear around but with a bit softer boot than i've been in in the past (scorpion 130s the last couple seasons) i can really work the boot forward when needed too. the only people who i think really would get an advantage from a bunch of lean are racers driving super stiff, straight skis super hard. if that's not you, i don't see the reason.

  13. #13
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    Disagree.

    Just like anything in the boot world, some people's ergonomics will work better with more, some with less. I feel strongly there isn't a "one forward lean for all" out there...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffreyJim View Post
    Disagree.

    Just like anything in the boot world, some people's ergonomics will work better with more, some with less. I feel strongly there isn't a "one forward lean for all" out there...
    there definitely is not.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    skis have gone from 205, to 170, and with more sidecut. The movement needed to turn them is more lateral (side to side) and less forward (no need to bend a 205 tip, now with a 170 ski with more sidecut)
    ^what he said. You don't need any weight on the front of your skis when you're smearing your rockered reverse sidecut noodles down the groomers (or anywhere else for that matter).
    Do what you like, Like what you do.

  16. #16
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    Do you think a boot with more upright stance would cause one to not bend knees as much skiing? Say not get past 90 on range of motion or not?
    I ask because my knees are starting to rot and my problems start when I go past 90.
    I currently ski kryptons with max fwd lean. I like the athletic aggressive stance curious how more upright would even feel.

  17. #17
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    I'm thinking it was cool and extremo back in the day to have "aggressive" looking boots. Cause after all, the more forward lean, the more hardcore you are and the more you "drive" the ski.

    Same ass backwards thinking got us lots of other hot technology and product advancement.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    skis have gone from 205, to 170, and with more sidecut. The movement needed to turn them is more lateral (side to side) and less forward (no need to bend a 205 tip, now with a 170 ski with more sidecut)
    Quote Originally Posted by gwat View Post
    ^what he said. You don't need any weight on the front of your skis when you're smearing your rockered reverse sidecut noodles down the groomers (or anywhere else for that matter).
    What if I like to use my edges to turn. Can I still use the shim in my Kryptons?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vailcat View Post
    Do you think a boot with more upright stance would cause one to not bend knees as much skiing? Say not get past 90 on range of motion or not?
    I ask because my knees are starting to rot and my problems start when I go past 90.
    I currently ski kryptons with max fwd lean. I like the athletic aggressive stance curious how more upright would even feel.
    I ski Krypton Pro ID's with the medium wedge. I can't say enough good stuff about them. "Feeling the tongue" was not an issue for me prior to using them, and I think I feel laterally quicker now than I had with boots with more forward lean. I'll never move away from the Krypton line of boots as long as they don't dick up the fit. They've been the best boots I've ever had.

    One thing that struck me - does more forward lean necessarily equal more "aggressive"? Just thinking out loud. I would not necessarily find that to be universally true.

    That said, it's a couple minutes to take the wedges out. Do it. Try it. You have nothing to lose.
    Gravity. It's the law.

  20. #20
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    Forward lean is a function of individual body dimensions and weights.
    Ultimate skiing,a book by ron lemaster has a good description on how to see if your boots have the right forward lean for you.
    The idea is that you should be able to flex deeply without affecting your fore/aft balance.
    Put your boots on and tighten them.
    Stand on a flat surface.
    Bend your knees deeply, till the thighs are parallel to the floor.
    If you fall backwards, need more forward lean. If you fall forwards, then you need less.
    Then if you don't have enough ankle flexion to take advantage of the forward lean, add a heel wedge until your heel doesn't lift up in the boot when you flex forward.

    This takes into account all the variables, like long or short femur, heavy ass, heavy or long torso, big head, etc.



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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Forward lean is a function of individual body dimensions and weights.
    Ultimate skiing,a book by ron lemaster has a good description on how to see if your boots have the right forward lean for you.
    The idea is that you should be able to flex deeply without affecting your fore/aft balance.
    Put your boots on and tighten them.
    Stand on a flat surface.
    Bend your knees deeply, till the thighs are parallel to the floor.
    If you fall backwards, need more forward lean. If you fall forwards, then you need less.
    Then if you don't have enough ankle flexion to take advantage of the forward lean, add a heel wedge until your heel doesn't lift up in the boot when you flex forward.

    This takes into account all the variables, like long or short femur, heavy ass, heavy or long torso, big head, etc.



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    \

    That makes a lot of sense and I'm trying it when I get home. Thanks. Does this mean chicks on average would take more or less lean? (thinking of the old bend at the waist chair trick.)

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  23. #23
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    Nice chart!

    I think I'll print it out and tack it in my shop. It sez it all.
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  24. #24
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    I took out the rear spoilers in my boots because my thighs would get tired skiing powder with divy skis. Less of an issue now with better skis.
    I just got powerwraps and noticed less forward lean because the double wrap in front acts as a front spoiler. I noticed myself occasionally losing balance backwards and according to the chart I didn't have enough lean so I put in some heel wedges to compensate. According to the chart I'm better. We'll see how they ski.

    But a simpler way to think about it--less forward lean=small tight butt which attracts girls. More forward lean=butt sticks out which attracts boys. It's simple once you decide if you like girls or boys.
    Last edited by old goat; 01-29-2013 at 02:41 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by D(C) View Post
    This statement seems overly general. The important thing is to have boots that allow you to pressure forward through the turn. If you have good ankle flexion, more lean will feel natural and athletic, but if you have poorer ankle flexion a boot that's too forward will cause the ROM to be maxed at a point before pressure can be applied. The skier's biomechanics play a role for sure. Also keep in mind that a stiff boot with more lean can achieve similar angles to a softer boot with less lean.

    In a softer snow setting, being able to come back to neutral is important to allow the skis to float.

    So yeah, more upright boots aren't just for gapers.
    ^^^ this

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