I don't like my JJs.

[ClarkleberryFinn]

Course you don't like JJ's, what's with that ridiculous piddly little turn radius?

You want the 190 Bibby.

[ctw55]

Lhasa 186 maybe or 187 bro fat

I wish! Just out of my price range. I'm on that broke-ass-college-student-budget. Trying to keep it under 800.

[ctw55]

Course you don't like JJ's, what's with that ridiculous piddly little turn radius?

You want the 190 Bibby.

190? So you think that the 184 just wouldn't be enough? Or what about the 186 Governor?

[ctw55]

And we have the TGR trifecta.

explain for a jong

[ctw55]

good i'm not the only one who fucking hates that ski. check out BD amperages or maybe evern 4frnt hojis.

Actually almost bought Amps, but for some reason my local shop refused to order me a 185 and insisted I just buy the 175 in the shop. Some shop eh? Yeah really taking into consideration the hoji's now.

[ctw55]

I have the wailer 112's(hybrid) and Praxis Concepts... the Concepts by a nose hair. I had the JJ's.. way to short for me, 6'1" 175-185. 112's float better, Concepts better in crud and a bit more stable. Surprisingly, I also like the Concepts in trees better even though he 112's are really good. So it depends what you are after... just picked up some Rocker 2 108's in a 190, that might also be a good possibility... haven't had them in trees yet.

Yeah I considered the 112s but they just seem so damn similar to the JJ I just can't get over it. Am I wrong? Hmmm...I do like the concepts but have no experience with or never even seen a pair of Praxis skis in real life so I am quite ignorant. But...holy hell that concept graphic is disgusting. When looking at getting the JJ the Rocker2 115 was an idea but for some reason I thought I wouldn't be able to handle a ski like that but now I feel like that's just what I need so that will also be considered.

[ctw55]

I owned 185 JJs for 2 months or so early last year. Sold em quick on craigslist. And I was not that impressed with the 184 Wailer Hybrid 112RP unless it was smooth groomers or untouched powder. They felt real short and unstable in chopped up Baker pow/bumps (could have been the crappy soft Scarpa boots I was using with my Dukes).

Just bought some 187 Hojis last week, and put MFD plates on them with Pivots. Just gonna do short Baker hikes in my 130 alpine boots! Hopefully get the Hojis in some soft snow tomorrow.

Looking at 184 Moment Deathwish or more likely 182 Jag Shark (Jags have tip rocker and camber to the tail) for a more all around ski when there is snow. I used to own Moment Rubys which were essentially Jag Sharks without tip rocker.

K

Yeah thats how I feel towards the 112RP. Although never skied them I have heard from people that they just can't blast through crud and chop and I ski a lot of that! Hoji's are higher and higher on my list. They seem like a great east coast ski that will handle awesome when things get choppy and rough. I also considered Jag Sharks but I read they ski so traditional and boring so that was an instant turn off. I do however like the 186 Governor which seems to be a slightly stiffer crud blaster that you can also get through trees with quite well.

[ctw55]

I ski similar to how you described and am just slightly bigger at 6'2" 170 and the 190 Bibby Pro kills it. It pushes me to drop anything in my way, crushes crud, pivots well through tight trees, and cruises groomer pretty well for 118 underfoot.
It only took one day on the JJ for me to realize it wasn't enough ski for me but the Bibby is a whole different beast, you won't be disappointed.

But do you think the 190 is too much ski for me? Or maybe the 184 isn't enough? Thats why I was thinking the 186 Governor. Kind of a happy medium. And I get a flatter tail which is appealing to me!

[stuckathuntermtn]

Dude. Use the multiquote feature.

Sent from my DROID2

[ctw55]

I'm your height, slightly heavier. Similar type of skier

I had Skevik Antons (fatter JJ). Same set of issues. Amazing on a tree day, but not that great the rest of the time. Fun, but not awesome. I'm WAY happier with concepts. I also think you would probably love the Bibby based on what you're saying, but they are ever so slightly heavier than concepts. I would not get the 112 RP (just my opinion - lots of people like it, but I don't). If you're willing to spring for DPS and your style is chargy like you say, get the RPC. It's money. It's also one of the lightest options mentioned thus far, which would go nicely with your 85% touring and radicals. I've got a wordy review up here: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...C-192-cm/page4

Billy Goats and Renegades are likely the best performing ski for what you're talking about doing. But they are more work in the trees than a JJ and they are both pretty heavy on the ascent. The BG tour will save some weight and make it similar to the Bibby. Friends here who have opinions that I trust LOVE the 186 BG tour everywhere: trees, open spaces, hardpack. It's longer than the 188 S7. Or you could go 191 and have more charge in the ski. I would get the Bibby in a 190. The 185 Anton often felt like a pair of snow blades.

Lots of info, but I think you'd be hardpressed to be disappointed in a Bibby, BG tour, RPC or concept.

Again, I'll say: I have a 20% praxis coupon if you decide to go that route.

Hmm very interested in the concepts especially the carbon layup version. HATE the graphic though. But if its skis how everyone says the graphic means nothing. Do you have a weight on the 187 carbon layup version? Quite interested and a 20% off coupon would be awesome seeing as though I'm on that broke college student budget! HA. Yeah the bibby is still very high on the list!! 190 or 184 I really don't know. Yeah the RPC is just outta my price range. The Billy Goat and Renegades seem awesome but the fact I ski more tight trees than anything else I feel as though I really don't need some that burly.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

You should demo some skis to find out if what you didn't like about the JJ's was the:

A) turn radius
B) tail rocker
C) softness
D) length
E) some combination of the above

You can probably demo some Worths if you pm weasel1 (one of the owners).

[ctw55]

Praxis Concepts are my go to tight trees, steep bumps ski. Turn quite fast and easily, and hold a great edge, of course great in crud... a very versatile ski. I think mine are medium-stiff.

Boom another one for the concepts! Going higher and higher on my list...

from what i've heard the on3p billygoats sound like a good bet. take a look at the hojis though so easy to ski in all conditions.

BG just seem so burly for me! Hojis on the other hand seem quite interesting to me.

2nd on renegades. I've had 186 and went to 196 for my size. At your weight 186 would rock. BG or even 182 atlas

Too much ski for me though? The renegades just seem so burly and tough to handle in tight trees?

Let me know if you're interested in selling the JJs (especially w/dynafits). I'm in Albany and can drive over and pick them up if the price is right.

Keeping Dynafits and already selling JJ's to a close buddy of mine. Thank you for the interest though!!

People are smoking some crack in this thread... At your size and more importantly, TOURING 85% of the time on the EAST COAST, you don't want or need the renegade or 191 BG. Maybe if you were solely at tucks, some of these skis would make sense, but from my experience, many tours on the EC have limited areas to REALLY open it up and push a ski like a renegade/191BG. Even the wailer RPC is made for more open spaces... Stiffer, longer radius, and less rocker.

Skis I have toured with on the EC, and have also lusted over would be...

186 Lhasa pow, great ski to tour with, wish I never sold.
185 worth HB, similar to the Lhasa, with a more traditional tail... This years ski.
186 BG tour... ON3P skis are damp, ski true to size (they make the JJ look very small), and are unique with the bamboo layup... You do not want to size up with this ski because it is already sized up compared to most of the market... If you were solely resort, I would look at the regular layup, but the tour model is for well, touring.
190 Wailer 112 rp is a ski I would like to try, but 1200+ for the pure is a tough ski to "try".
187 Hoji. This is the ski I want oh so badly. I loved my EHP, and with the tweaks made to this ski, it would jam inbounds and in the bc on the EC.
I love praxis skis, and I am a little bit of a homer, but I have not skied the suggestions above. For me, the weight and flex of these skis are spot on. I ski a RX as an inbounds pow/charger ski. They have a few used ones for sale in gear swap that I've seen... Concept, wootest, and MVP all sound like fun skis.

Yeah I would love get my hands on the Lhasa pows but outta my price range! BG tours just seem like too much of a ski for me eh? I ski so many tight trees and from what I read I feel as though I will have to be constantly working HARD to get these through there. 112RP Pure seems so close to the JJ spec and 1200 is a lot of cash money for a broke college kid! Hoji are getting higher and higher on my list as well, same with the concepts, very interested to do more research!

The bibby pro would be an awsome consideration. I just compared my 184s to my brother's JJs, and...there's just no comparison. They track through chop ten times better, rail groomers much nicer, and aren't that much harder in trees. Awsome ski all around, and definitely a nice upgrade from the JJs, IMO>

Would you do 190 if you were me? And what you said was just what I wanted to here about the Bibby.

I found the 112rp and the JJ to be somewhat the same 5 point design, if I line them up side by each I can find some big similarities, they both list a turning radius under 20M, yeah they ski different but IMO not that much different so I kept one of them, sold the other and bought the more traditional Stoke for the BC

maybe you just don't like the 5 point design of ski?

ehhh I am beginning to feel that way as well.

[sandflea]

I have both the standard layup Concepts and Carbon ones, I don't have the weights... one has dynafits on them and the other has jester demos on them. If I had to guess, .6-.9lbs. difference in weight. You can also get a different graphic on the topsheet, I've got the Sierras on my carbon ones.

[ctw55]

I have both the standard layup Concepts and Carbon ones, I don't have the weights... one has dynafits on them and the other has jester demos on them. If I had to guess, .6-.9lbs. difference in weight. You can also get a different graphic on the topsheet, I've got the Sierras on my carbon ones.

What can you tell me about the difference of the Carbon vs. Standard layouts? Any real serious difference in how they ski? Yeah I noticed you could get a different graphic on the topsheet but right now they are on sale for $585 and I don't think it's worth it to spend an extra $200 just for a different topsheet.

[sandflea]

Maybe a little more pop in the carbon version... to tell you the truth, if you blindfolded me and they both had the same bindings on them I probably couldn't figure out which was which.

[ctw55]

Hmm...interesting. Well in that case if I could save almost a pound by spending an extra $90 that seems worth it to me. Will for sure do that if I do go the Praxis way. Thanks!

[sandflea]

It's a great ski, earlyups and exoticskis have some good reviews on them.

[Jordon]

JJs arent the best for east coast ice. I grew up sking thoes exact spots vermont PA NY and there was never a day i thought i needed 115 underfoot its most likely the conditions not the ski.

[gskis]

+1 for the norwalk. never been on the JJ, but I ride 176 billy goats most days. i wouldn't say they are very similar, but from what you said about the jj i would think the norwalk would be great. It still has a smaller turning radius, but is actually a super solid ski. felt nice and stiff, but not overkill, and the lack of rocker in the tail is great. also if you are going to be touring it definitely felt on the lighter side (at least compared to the BGs).

[ctw55]

JJs arent the best for east coast ice. I grew up sking thoes exact spots vermont PA NY and there was never a day i thought i needed 115 underfoot its most likely the conditions not the ski.

If you read my first post I talked about how I have another pair of skis, G3 Infadels which are 97 underfoot that I use for more hardpack/rough days. Looking for a ski to replace my JJs that can handle pow as well as when it gets skied out and choppy/crud.

[SupreChicken]

Per Keith's email to me, the carbon saves about half a pound. He didn't say if that was per ski or per pair. I have the fiberglass, and I'm super happy, but I would definitely spring for the carbon version with the current sale price plus 20% code. You can do the calculations, but they are both smokin deals for new, undrilled skis. Agreed on the concept topsheet...but whatever. They should be covered in snow. If they aren't, cover them in stickers.

[ctw55]

+1 for the norwalk. never been on the JJ, but I ride 176 billy goats most days. i wouldn't say they are very similar, but from what you said about the jj i would think the norwalk would be great. It still has a smaller turning radius, but is actually a super solid ski. felt nice and stiff, but not overkill, and the lack of rocker in the tail is great. also if you are going to be touring it definitely felt on the lighter side (at least compared to the BGs).

ahh finally someone with some Norwalk love! So would you say its just a hard charging JJ with more stability?

[sandflea]

I considered the Norwalk... I have AKJJ's which I actually love, but anything less flex wise for me would be too soft. My Majic J's were supposed to be stiffer according to their website and are not so you might want to flex the Norwalks if the JJ's were too flexy for you before buying.

[ctw55]

Per Keith's email to me, the carbon saves about half a pound. He didn't say if that was per ski or per pair. I have the fiberglass, and I'm super happy, but I would definitely spring for the carbon version with the current sale price plus 20% code. You can do the calculations, but they are both smokin deals for new, undrilled skis. Agreed on the concept topsheet...but whatever. They should be covered in snow. If they aren't, cover them in stickers.

Ah awesome. Thanks for the info man!

I considered the Norwalk... I have AKJJ's which I actually love, but anything less flex wise for me would be too soft. My Majic J's were supposed to be stiffer according to their website and are not so you might want to flex the Norwalks if the JJ's were too flexy for you before buying.

Yeah the Armada site says the Norwalk is the same flex as the JJ but I figured since there is no rockered tail it might be a little stiffer? But now that I think about it, I believe I need a ski that is just burlier all around and I don't think the Norwalk is the answer.

[Cocximus]

The JJs AK and 112rp are very different when it comes to dampening. Not even the same league. I always joked the JJs Ak are cardboard core. The non ak JJs must be really crappy. The 112rp aren't exactly charger skis but they can handle a lot more than JJs AK while maintaining a very nimble feel.