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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    61

    I don't like my JJs.

    So this year I decided to pull the trigger on a pair of 185 JJs. I mounted them up on the line with a pair of Dynafit Radical FT. I live on the east coast and 85% of my skiing is touring. Whether it be in Vermont, Adirondacks, or my local hill of Mt. Greylock. I also have a pair of G3 Infadels with Dynafits for more hardpack crud tours. Anyways...I got the JJs because they seemed like they can pivot really well in tight trees and tricky situations and still be able to manage when things get a little beat up. I love hitting drops and blasting off anything that comes in my way, so I would say I am an aggressive skier, and I liked the fact that the JJ had a wider tail and plenty of it allowing me to stomp landings better. Well...I feel like I am overpowering the ski. I am 6 feet and 160 pounds with my gear on. I feel like the ski is too washy and the tails are giving out when I don't want them too. The ski also just doesn't perform well and bust through crud the way I expected it to. I love the camber underfoot but it just doesn't seem to lock up when I need it too. I am blowing out the tails and the ski just isn't holding when really trying to charge. I also think the turn radius is just too tight for me as well. The JJ seems to only want to make tight turns and when I try and really open it up its doesn't like that. Don't get me wrong...I love the tight turn radius and how I can get through tight situations but I want a ski that will hold on when trying to blast through stuff!

    So... I've been researching and have been looking into a few other skis.

    Armada Norwalk 188: I like the fact that it's based on the JJ but with a burlier feel. I also really like how it has less rocker in the tail so I feel I won't blow through it like I did with the JJs.

    Moment Bibby Pro 184 or 190: I've heard this is a damper more stable ski than the JJ and with similar dimensions this sounds appealing.

    Moment Governor 186: Burlier version of the Bibby with a flatter tail which really appeals to me.

    So what do you think TGR?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    2,469
    I liked the JJ's idea too but when I tried them I felt the same way. Waaaay too washy. I ended up getting the wailer 112 and I am very happy with them. They are ridiculously easy to pivot and throw around, but they can hold an edge in anything you can stick your poles in.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    I liked the JJ's idea too but when I tried them I felt the same way. Waaaay too washy. I ended up getting the wailer 112 and I am very happy with them. They are ridiculously easy to pivot and throw around, but they can hold an edge in anything you can stick your poles in.
    ahh I forgot to add those to the list! I have heard positive things about them as well and people enjoy touring on them because of their weight which is always a plus. Thanks man!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Front Ranger
    Posts
    906
    191 On3p billy goat

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    22,463
    It sounds like you need a stiffer ski, and probably something like camber in the tail.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    7,243
    Lhasa 186 maybe or 187 bro fat
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16, 24, 32, 35

    2021/2022 (13/15)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Planning an exit
    Posts
    5,930
    And we have the TGR trifecta.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SLicCity
    Posts
    305
    I have the wailer 112's(hybrid) and Praxis Concepts... the Concepts by a nose hair. I had the JJ's.. way to short for me, 6'1" 175-185. 112's float better, Concepts better in crud and a bit more stable. Surprisingly, I also like the Concepts in trees better even though he 112's are really good. So it depends what you are after... just picked up some Rocker 2 108's in a 190, that might also be a good possibility... haven't had them in trees yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctw55 View Post
    So this year I decided to pull the trigger on a pair of 185 JJs. I mounted them up on the line with a pair of Dynafit Radical FT. I live on the east coast and 85% of my skiing is touring. Whether it be in Vermont, Adirondacks, or my local hill of Mt. Greylock. I also have a pair of G3 Infadels with Dynafits for more hardpack crud tours. Anyways...I got the JJs because they seemed like they can pivot really well in tight trees and tricky situations and still be able to manage when things get a little beat up. I love hitting drops and blasting off anything that comes in my way, so I would say I am an aggressive skier, and I liked the fact that the JJ had a wider tail and plenty of it allowing me to stomp landings better. Well...I feel like I am overpowering the ski. I am 6 feet and 160 pounds with my gear on. I feel like the ski is too washy and the tails are giving out when I don't want them too. The ski also just doesn't perform well and bust through crud the way I expected it to. I love the camber underfoot but it just doesn't seem to lock up when I need it too. I am blowing out the tails and the ski just isn't holding when really trying to charge. I also think the turn radius is just too tight for me as well. The JJ seems to only want to make tight turns and when I try and really open it up its doesn't like that. Don't get me wrong...I love the tight turn radius and how I can get through tight situations but I want a ski that will hold on when trying to blast through stuff!

    So... I've been researching and have been looking into a few other skis.

    Armada Norwalk 188: I like the fact that it's based on the JJ but with a burlier feel. I also really like how it has less rocker in the tail so I feel I won't blow through it like I did with the JJs.

    Moment Bibby Pro 184 or 190: I've heard this is a damper more stable ski than the JJ and with similar dimensions this sounds appealing.

    Moment Governor 186: Burlier version of the Bibby with a flatter tail which really appeals to me.

    So what do you think TGR?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    404
    good i'm not the only one who fucking hates that ski. check out BD amperages or maybe evern 4frnt hojis.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,879
    I owned 185 JJs for 2 months or so early last year. Sold em quick on craigslist. And I was not that impressed with the 184 Wailer Hybrid 112RP unless it was smooth groomers or untouched powder. They felt real short and unstable in chopped up Baker pow/bumps (could have been the crappy soft Scarpa boots I was using with my Dukes).

    Just bought some 187 Hojis last week, and put MFD plates on them with Pivots. Just gonna do short Baker hikes in my 130 alpine boots! Hopefully get the Hojis in some soft snow tomorrow.

    Looking at 184 Moment Deathwish or more likely 182 Jag Shark (Jags have tip rocker and camber to the tail) for a more all around ski when there is snow. I used to own Moment Rubys which were essentially Jag Sharks without tip rocker.

    K
    _________________________________________________
    I love big dumps.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    N ID/ CO/ BC
    Posts
    346
    I ski similar to how you described and am just slightly bigger at 6'2" 170 and the 190 Bibby Pro kills it. It pushes me to drop anything in my way, crushes crud, pivots well through tight trees, and cruises groomer pretty well for 118 underfoot.
    It only took one day on the JJ for me to realize it wasn't enough ski for me but the Bibby is a whole different beast, you won't be disappointed.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
    Posts
    3,163
    I'm your height, slightly heavier. Similar type of skier

    I had Skevik Antons (fatter JJ). Same set of issues. Amazing on a tree day, but not that great the rest of the time. Fun, but not awesome. I'm WAY happier with concepts. I also think you would probably love the Bibby based on what you're saying, but they are ever so slightly heavier than concepts. I would not get the 112 RP (just my opinion - lots of people like it, but I don't). If you're willing to spring for DPS and your style is chargy like you say, get the RPC. It's money. It's also one of the lightest options mentioned thus far, which would go nicely with your 85% touring and radicals. I've got a wordy review up here: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...C-192-cm/page4

    Billy Goats and Renegades are likely the best performing ski for what you're talking about doing. But they are more work in the trees than a JJ and they are both pretty heavy on the ascent. The BG tour will save some weight and make it similar to the Bibby. Friends here who have opinions that I trust LOVE the 186 BG tour everywhere: trees, open spaces, hardpack. It's longer than the 188 S7. Or you could go 191 and have more charge in the ski. I would get the Bibby in a 190. The 185 Anton often felt like a pair of snow blades.

    Lots of info, but I think you'd be hardpressed to be disappointed in a Bibby, BG tour, RPC or concept.

    Again, I'll say: I have a 20% praxis coupon if you decide to go that route.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Incline Village, NV (Tahoe)
    Posts
    5,438
    Quote Originally Posted by sandflea View Post
    I have the wailer 112's(hybrid) and Praxis Concepts... the Concepts by a nose hair. I had the JJ's.. way to short for me, 6'1" 175-185. 112's float better, Concepts better in crud and a bit more stable. Surprisingly, I also like the Concepts in trees better even though he 112's are really good. So it depends what you are after... just picked up some Rocker 2 108's in a 190, that might also be a good possibility... haven't had them in trees yet.
    Praxis Concepts are my go to tight trees, steep bumps ski. Turn quite fast and easily, and hold a great edge, of course great in crud... a very versatile ski. I think mine are medium-stiff.
    Every man dies. Not every man lives.
    You don’t stop playing because you grow old; you grow old because you stop playing.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    404
    from what i've heard the on3p billygoats sound like a good bet. take a look at the hojis though so easy to ski in all conditions.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    7,243
    2nd on renegades. I've had 186 and went to 196 for my size. At your weight 186 would rock. BG or even 182 atlas
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16, 24, 32, 35

    2021/2022 (13/15)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    78
    Let me know if you're interested in selling the JJs (especially w/dynafits). I'm in Albany and can drive over and pick them up if the price is right.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    967
    People are smoking some crack in this thread... At your size and more importantly, TOURING 85% of the time on the EAST COAST, you don't want or need the renegade or 191 BG. Maybe if you were solely at tucks, some of these skis would make sense, but from my experience, many tours on the EC have limited areas to REALLY open it up and push a ski like a renegade/191BG. Even the wailer RPC is made for more open spaces... Stiffer, longer radius, and less rocker.

    Skis I have toured with on the EC, and have also lusted over would be...

    186 Lhasa pow, great ski to tour with, wish I never sold.
    185 worth HB, similar to the Lhasa, with a more traditional tail... This years ski.
    186 BG tour... ON3P skis are damp, ski true to size (they make the JJ look very small), and are unique with the bamboo layup... You do not want to size up with this ski because it is already sized up compared to most of the market... If you were solely resort, I would look at the regular layup, but the tour model is for well, touring.
    190 Wailer 112 rp is a ski I would like to try, but 1200+ for the pure is a tough ski to "try".
    187 Hoji. This is the ski I want oh so badly. I loved my EHP, and with the tweaks made to this ski, it would jam inbounds and in the bc on the EC.
    I love praxis skis, and I am a little bit of a homer, but I have not skied the suggestions above. For me, the weight and flex of these skis are spot on. I ski a RX as an inbounds pow/charger ski. They have a few used ones for sale in gear swap that I've seen... Concept, wootest, and MVP all sound like fun skis.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    491
    The bibby pro would be an awsome consideration. I just compared my 184s to my brother's JJs, and...there's just no comparison. They track through chop ten times better, rail groomers much nicer, and aren't that much harder in trees. Awsome ski all around, and definitely a nice upgrade from the JJs, IMO>
    "Remember, if you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." -Warren Miller
    Ephesians 4:7

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,885
    I found the 112rp and the JJ to be somewhat the same 5 point design, if I line them up side by each I can find some big similarities, they both list a turning radius under 20M, yeah they ski different but IMO not that much different so I kept one of them, sold the other and bought the more traditional Stoke for the BC

    maybe you just don't like the 5 point design of ski?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    one of those gaper mountain towns
    Posts
    3,632
    Click image for larger version. 

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    For all the reasons mentioned above.

    Lhasas, Bibbys or BG's FTW, or maybe some of these https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ear-Kusala-pow if you want something wider and aren't in a hurry.
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovetoskiatalta View Post
    Dude its losers like you that give ski bums a bad rap.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    14,410
    Quote Originally Posted by concretejungle View Post
    And we have the TGR trifecta.
    Without question....

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    404
    yeah renegades are definitely not the ski for you, emr has it right. 87 hojis if you can find them sound perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by emr View Post
    People are smoking some crack in this thread... At your size and more importantly, TOURING 85% of the time on the EAST COAST, you don't want or need the renegade or 191 BG. Maybe if you were solely at tucks, some of these skis would make sense, but from my experience, many tours on the EC have limited areas to REALLY open it up and push a ski like a renegade/191BG. Even the wailer RPC is made for more open spaces... Stiffer, longer radius, and less rocker.

    Skis I have toured with on the EC, and have also lusted over would be...

    186 Lhasa pow, great ski to tour with, wish I never sold.
    185 worth HB, similar to the Lhasa, with a more traditional tail... This years ski.
    186 BG tour... ON3P skis are damp, ski true to size (they make the JJ look very small), and are unique with the bamboo layup... You do not want to size up with this ski because it is already sized up compared to most of the market... If you were solely resort, I would look at the regular layup, but the tour model is for well, touring.
    190 Wailer 112 rp is a ski I would like to try, but 1200+ for the pure is a tough ski to "try".
    187 Hoji. This is the ski I want oh so badly. I loved my EHP, and with the tweaks made to this ski, it would jam inbounds and in the bc on the EC.
    I love praxis skis, and I am a little bit of a homer, but I have not skied the suggestions above. For me, the weight and flex of these skis are spot on. I ski a RX as an inbounds pow/charger ski. They have a few used ones for sale in gear swap that I've seen... Concept, wootest, and MVP all sound like fun skis.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    WAIDMTBC
    Posts
    461
    I guess I just don't understand how mounting Dynafits and "touring" on an enormous, flappy, fully rockered plank in the east isn't working out for you.
    You have to let other people be right. It consoles them for not being anything else. -- Andre Gide

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    7,243
    Nothing wrong with the TGR trifecta, two of my 4 skis are Lhasa fat and renegade. Had 112, hated it and will try BG. So if it works who cares.
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16, 24, 32, 35

    2021/2022 (13/15)

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Planning an exit
    Posts
    5,930
    Quote Originally Posted by whyturn View Post
    Nothing wrong with the TGR trifecta, two of my 4 skis are Lhasa fat and renegade. Had 112, hated it and will try BG. So if it works who cares.
    Apparently you care. Simmer down. Wink. Stupid phone.

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