School me on beginner motorcycles...

**toast2266** · 01-23-2013, 01:05 PM

The VFR's are sweet bikes - had one for a long time. While it's not the first bike I'd recommend in this situation, they're still pretty user friendly. Comfortable to sit on all day, reasonably happy to putter along at moderate speeds but can still knock the dust off when you want it to. Agreed with counterfeit that it's not the bike that gets people in trouble, its the rider.

I don't really understand the recommendations for a 250. I see those as trainer bikes for teenagers that have no self control and therefore their stupidity needs to be mechanically limited. For a grown adult, recommending a 250 is like telling a first time skier that they should start on kid's skis. Are they easy to turn? Yes, but you'll outgrow them about 1/2 way down the first green run. It's not like 650's (or liter bikes for that matter) are so touchy and uncontrollable that it takes an expert rider to handle them. If anything, the bigger bikes are a little easier to ride because they're less finicky about being in the right gear all the time and the engines are often smoother.

**counterfeitfake** · 01-23-2013, 02:28 PM

Yes, I really can't agree strongly enough that a 250 is unnecessary and will soon end up being frustrating and need to be upgraded. Even a lower-powered 500 is going to get old straining to do 60 on the freeway. Lots of people will probably argue with me, but I'm right.

The kind of bike I think would be a bad idea is any true sportbike, because they're high-strung and user unfriendly. That is the one caveat to what I said about bikes not getting you in trouble- a high-revving 4-cylinder powerplant that doesn't develop real power until high in the RPMs might surprise you, if you weren't experienced.

**9922** · 01-23-2013, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

The VFR's are sweet bikes - had one for a long time. While it's not the first bike I'd recommend in this situation, they're still pretty user friendly. Comfortable to sit on all day, reasonably happy to putter along at moderate speeds but can still knock the dust off when you want it to. Agreed with counterfeit that it's not the bike that gets people in trouble, its the rider.

I don't really understand the recommendations for a 250. I see those as trainer bikes for teenagers that have no self control and therefore their stupidity needs to be mechanically limited. For a grown adult, recommending a 250 is like telling a first time skier that they should start on kid's skis. Are they easy to turn? Yes, but you'll outgrow them about 1/2 way down the first green run. It's not like 650's (or liter bikes for that matter) are so touchy and uncontrollable that it takes an expert rider to handle them. If anything, the bigger bikes are a little easier to ride because they're less finicky about being in the right gear all the time and the engines are often smoother.

Similar here. I had an Interceptor 500, then VFR750. They were both very civilized yet fun, but I still would not want to do regular 60 mile commute with them.

Another factor I don't think anybody has brought up yet is, getting out of hazardous situations (drivers that don't see bikes). A larger bike tend to have better torque/hp to accelerate, AND better and more stable braking power.

**Cocximus** · 01-23-2013, 03:51 PM

IMHO the most dangerous thing about big bikes is their engine brake. Improper downshift can get you in a lot of trouble.

**iscariot** · 01-23-2013, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by daught

IMHO the most dangerous thing about big bikes is their engine brake. Improper downshift can get you in a lot of trouble.

slipper clutch.

**DRZ1050i** · 01-23-2013, 06:12 PM

FWIW, I don't know of any 500 that strains in any way to do 60mph. The DRZ400 does not have a particularly strong motor for a 400, and will still go over 100 stock. The Ninja 250 will go 95ish. No, the DRZ isn't comfortable at those speeds, which is why I geared mine -1/ +5. Highway riding is still doable, but it's much more fun around town. Tops out around low 80s now. Kinda stupid gearing, yeah. But fun!

**lowsparkco** · 01-23-2013, 06:45 PM

DRZ400 is a much better choice for someone with a 30" inseam. Also, air cooled so it's not as heavy as the water cooled KLR. I rode a DR650 for about 3 years down in Central America and they are bomber bikes, a lot of fun, plenty of bike to get you in trouble. I crashed mine a few times.

**Cocximus** · 01-23-2013, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by iscariot

slipper clutch.

Not every bike has one.

**MakersTeleMark** · 01-23-2013, 07:50 PM

Don't forget the F650 and the much less expensive Honda Transalp. I like the SV 650 recommendation as well as an old beater CB750 as well.

You either want to start with something dirt cheap that you will flip in a year, or nicer that you would actually ride a couple years down the road.

Also agree that 500cc should be the bare minimum.

While I agree that a KLR would be a good first bike, I wouldn't want to commute 60 miles a day on one (I have put over 20k on one, trust me).

**Supermoon** · 01-23-2013, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark

Don't forget the F650 and the much less expensive Honda Transalp.

Can you even find a Transalp in the US anymore?

**Jethro** · 01-23-2013, 09:01 PM

My Honda Superhawk VTR 1000 was a sweet first street bike for me.

**Cocximus** · 01-23-2013, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Phildo_Baggins

Can you even find a Transalp in the US anymore?

Were they even brought to NA? I love those bikes.

**Supermoon** · 01-24-2013, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by daught

Were they even brought to NA? I love those bikes.

I think they were imported for only a couple of years in the late 80s, so anything you find is like 30 years old.

**sarge1957** · 01-24-2013, 02:19 AM

If you live near dirt bike riding, just get a used 200 to 250cc dirt bike to start. I started on the streets on a SV650 but even that bike is a low end (naked) sport bike. It will hit 70 in a city block and cruise at 90mph with you even thinking about it (Top speed around 135 stock). Riding on the street is russian roulette. If you must get a supermoto. Unlike dual sport bikes it has good rubber for pavement but is super manueverable in traffic. Sport bikes are awesome at the track, because they are MADE for the track. If you can afford $150 in track fees a day and around $100 to $200 a day in rubber, and the occasional $2000 to $4000 crash go for it. If you have good leathers, serious injury is rare at a track (not so on the streets in a crash).

After buying my SV650 and riding for a couple years, I got a Gas Gas EC200 Enduro bike and discovered the awesomeness of dirt biking. Sold my SV soon after to by a second KTM 250 XCF Track and Desert race bike. Will be updating the Gas Gas soon with another euro style enduro machine (Beta, Hasaberg, Husquvarna, or Gas Gas), and I may add a supermoto to race on. Gotta have a quiver.

All I can say is dirt biking is every bit as awesome as skiing or snowboarding. If you have the terrain to ride, get dirt bikes and skip the road. Ohhh yeah, plan on $1500 in protective wear if you dont want to smash yourself, makes 40 mph crashes feel like snow...mostly.

Sarge.....co-founder USMC Semper Ride Program

**MakersTeleMark** · 01-24-2013, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by daught

Were they even brought to NA? I love those bikes.

I see a bunch of them in the SW.

Like here:

http://tucson.craigslist.org/mcy/3557971341.html

**sarge** · 01-15-2014, 04:43 AM

I started with a starter bike, a Suzuki SV650. Best thing about it was it retained its value so I could buy a dirt bike. Dirt bikes are THE best way to learn motorcycling, and if you ask me, the best way to use them for sport. I have two dirt bikes now and have no need or desire for a street bike. Dirt biking is a sport and has good crossover for skiers, boarders, mountain bikers etc.

That said, sport bike (bullet bikes) are super fun. I have been to Willow Springs and Chuckwalla raceways on 600 to 750 CC sport bikes as part of the motorcycle training Jeff Tilton and I do for the Marines. It is way fun! Reminds me of downhill ski racing; super technical, smooth, fast. If you have money, lots of money, this is a good option. The bikes cost $14,000 + and each crash can run $1000 to $4000. Track fees are $150 a day, and you will burn through $100 in rubber a day. But damn, it is thrilling to pin a high banked turn a 100mph + (the bowl at Chuckwalla).

A dirt bike new is $7500 to $9800. You really have to thump them to break anything. Track fees are cheap. Single track is pretty much free if you have it in your area. You can get a quality used bike between $300 and $4500.

Either style requires respect for the machine. This is different from gravity sports, and it is VERY technical. At least as technical as skiing or boarding at the highest levels. You NEED protective gear. They make head to toe armor now for sport or dirt. You'll spend $1500 to $2500 on protective gear on the dirt bike. Maybe a little less on the sport bike. Helmet, pressure suit, neck brace, hip pads, carbon knee braces, boots, wrist braces. Yeah you can get away with not having all that, right to the point you can't. I can stuff it at 40mph on my dirt bike and 90% of the time it is like falling in snow. It's worth it having the gear.

You notice I stayed clear of street bikes. Having done it for a few years I can say it makes little sense to me. You are a victim on the streets. A cruiser maneuvers like a pig. Sport bike corner great, but they are not designed for evasive maneuvers and you have to be super skilled to do it. You can get into deep shit fast on any bike on the street, even a 250 Ninja (I have had one of those things sideways numerous times at a track). I just think bikes are so fun for sport, in a controlled environment like dirt of a racetrack. The long cruiser rides just don't interest me, I'd rather have drive my 5.7 hemi Durango if I have to go distance. I don't know what kind of person has the constitution to just sit in the saddle on long cruiser rides, not me. Don't be tempted to get into canyon riding; one screw up and you are in the guardrail, on coming traffic, or over the edge. Then your life will be changed forever, that kind of riding belongs at a track. The best riders are...on the track!

If, for some reason I needed to ride the street (like $7 a gallon gas), I would get a 450 super moto. That bike is made for evasive maneuvers on the street. They are also super fun. I rode a 150 race ready super moto at a runway track day and it could easy keep pace with the 600 sport bikes (faster in corners, slower on straights), at least with the other novice/intermediates like me.

Finally, keep perspective. Just like skiing the distance from being a beginner rider to an expert rider, is only a fraction of the distance from an expert rider becoming a pro rider. The depth of talent in motorcycling worldwide is insane. But it is fun at every step of the progression, just like skiing.

Sarge

SB · 01-15-2014, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by mtnbiker/boarder

Buy a dual sport...DRZ400 .. on road off road and easy to learn basic dirt bike and way more fun than a cruiser. pick up cheap and are so much fun.......sold mine for like 2500 with only 2300 miles on it.... change the bars to pro taper ....good luck and dont buy a crotch rocket.......

This 2345

**userA** · 01-15-2014, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by peterslovo

Yes...it could be all highway, or only a few miles, depending on route. I'd probably opt for mostly back roads...much more enjoyable, safer, and only adds 10 min to the overall commute.

Sent from my XT907 using TGR Forums

do not convince yourself the backroads are safer, last year or now.
b

**jamesp** · 01-15-2014, 09:42 AM

Backroads make for more interesting riding, worth it for that, sitting on a freeway gets boring real fast. The biggest danger is other cars, less cars on back roads so it could be seen to be "safer". But yes its relative, motorbikes are super fun but don't under estimate the risk involved.

**DoWork** · 01-15-2014, 10:26 AM

You'll shoot your eye out kid!

**userA** · 01-15-2014, 10:35 AM

handlebar mounted deer rifle is not that far fetched

b

**Crampedon** · 01-15-2014, 11:10 AM

Do be careful, whatever bike you choose.

The danger is not just other cars...

**userA** · 01-15-2014, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by sarge

I started with a starter bike, a Suzuki SV650. Best thing about it was it retained its value so I could buy a dirt bike. Dirt bikes are THE best way to learn motorcycling, and if you ask me, the best way to use them for sport. I have two dirt bikes now and have no need or desire for a street bike. Dirt biking is a sport and has good crossover for skiers, boarders, mountain bikers etc.

That said, sport bike (bullet bikes) are super fun. I have been to Willow Springs and Chuckwalla raceways on 600 to 750 CC sport bikes as part of the motorcycle training Jeff Tilton and I do for the Marines. It is way fun! Reminds me of downhill ski racing; super technical, smooth, fast. If you have money, lots of money, this is a good option. The bikes cost $14,000 + and each crash can run $1000 to $4000. Track fees are $150 a day, and you will burn through $100 in rubber a day. But damn, it is thrilling to pin a high banked turn a 100mph + (the bowl at Chuckwalla).

A dirt bike new is $7500 to $9800. You really have to thump them to break anything. Track fees are cheap. Single track is pretty much free if you have it in your area. You can get a quality used bike between $300 and $4500.

Either style requires respect for the machine. This is different from gravity sports, and it is VERY technical. At least as technical as skiing or boarding at the highest levels. You NEED protective gear. They make head to toe armor now for sport or dirt. You'll spend $1500 to $2500 on protective gear on the dirt bike. Maybe a little less on the sport bike. Helmet, pressure suit, neck brace, hip pads, carbon knee braces, boots, wrist braces. Yeah you can get away with not having all that, right to the point you can't. I can stuff it at 40mph on my dirt bike and 90% of the time it is like falling in snow. It's worth it having the gear.

You notice I stayed clear of street bikes. Having done it for a few years I can say it makes little sense to me. You are a victim on the streets. A cruiser maneuvers like a pig. Sport bike corner great, but they are not designed for evasive maneuvers and you have to be super skilled to do it. You can get into deep shit fast on any bike on the street, even a 250 Ninja (I have had one of those things sideways numerous times at a track). I just think bikes are so fun for sport, in a controlled environment like dirt of a racetrack. The long cruiser rides just don't interest me, I'd rather have drive my 5.7 hemi Durango if I have to go distance. I don't know what kind of person has the constitution to just sit in the saddle on long cruiser rides, not me. Don't be tempted to get into canyon riding; one screw up and you are in the guardrail, on coming traffic, or over the edge. Then your life will be changed forever, that kind of riding belongs at a track. The best riders are...on the track!

If, for some reason I needed to ride the street (like $7 a gallon gas), I would get a 450 super moto. That bike is made for evasive maneuvers on the street. They are also super fun. I rode a 150 race ready super moto at a runway track day and it could easy keep pace with the 600 sport bikes (faster in corners, slower on straights), at least with the other novice/intermediates like me.

Finally, keep perspective. Just like skiing the distance from being a beginner rider to an expert rider, is only a fraction of the distance from an expert rider becoming a pro rider. The depth of talent in motorcycling worldwide is insane. But it is fun at every step of the progression, just like skiing.

Sarge

super OG Sarge spending some valuable time mentoring!
b

**Banh Mi** · 01-15-2014, 12:58 PM

I started riding dirtbikes at a young age, which prepped me for road bikes. Like others have said, dirtbikes are by far the best way to learn. Dont make the mistake of getting a superbike, if you have never ridden a motorcycle before. I used to live in miami, and when i took my motorcycle license class/test at 18, there were guys with brand new sportbikes waiting for them and their hot shot mentalities yet they could barely ride a scooter and pass the test. I almost prayed that night, knowing atleast one of those guys i tested with was bound to get hurt...

Anyways, my first bike was a 2006 gsxr 750, boy did i have fun on that. I have a responsible throttle hand, so it worked out fine as my first bike. I just took it easy for the first few weeks. I also had grew up racing dirtbikes, so the riding "form" was there, except i had to work on not puttin my foot down to turn(like MX).

A lot of people dont want to waste the money of starting out with a beginner bike, just to move up to a sport bike 6 months later. My advice would be to buy a running dirt bike for really cheap, and fuck around with it for a month or two, then get a 600cc if you really want a sportbike.

P.S. Sportbikes are only fun for about an hour or two at a time. The sitting position is very uncomfortable at my height, and youll get sore after medium length distances/rides.