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  1. #26
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    Edit: Full pack is looking good, I don't expect any problems with the zipper.


    Unfortunately, no refill centers near me. Are the cylinders the same as last year and can be taken to a place with a scuba to paintball adapter? Anyone done this recently?
    Last edited by Piggity; 01-28-2013 at 10:55 PM.

  2. #27
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    bump for ? on refill

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piggity View Post
    bump for ? on refill
    Cylinders are unchanged. Scuba/paintball shop will do the trick.

  4. #29
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    Make sure you get a set of O rings from BCA so you can replace it before refilling. I'd lean towards going to a scuba shop. I've heard some paintball places just use a compressor so you'll end up with a lot of moisture in your cylinder if they don't run it through a dryer first.

  5. #30
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    Anyone have issue with the shovel pocket getting torn by the shovel?

  6. #31
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    Well, I carry a lot of 'just in case' gear. For me, I can pretty easily avoid avalanches - unless emotion gets the better of me. More likely is gear failure or hitting a tree in areas with no phone reception, 50cm+ of unsettled snow and no-fly conditions.

    For private skiing: 182x112mm skins, shovel, probe, snow saw, goggles (plus spare on storm days), thin spare gloves, radio, first aid and repair kit, emergency bivy, belay jacket, Alpine Threadworks sled/tarp/shelter combo (a bit bulky, but light and multi purpose), XS prolight thermarest, 10m of 6mm cord, 500ml water, 4 Snickers bars (dudes should spancer me... I eat so many of them).

    I am in the mountains every day expending a lot of energy and trying to not get cold so I can stay strong for multiple months, day in, day out, with only a short evening for recovery. So I need to look after myself. Hence the mandatory belay jacket. Shivering at every transition and during the cold afternoon ski-out slowly breaks me down after a while.

    My very first impression of the Float 32 was "clean simple easy access internal compartment". I liked it! You could not even tell it was an airbag in some respects. The colors sure as hell didn't bother me. But I need more space so that I can get in and out of the pack with ease. I use my belay jacket multiple times in the day, for example. Currently use a 40L pack, and it looks slightly full, but that is mainly with low density bulky items that will save my life one day.

    If I was responsible for other people in a group, I'd have additional gear, such as 500ml thermos of hot tea and 20m of 7mm cord + bits and pieces.

    I guess the bottom line for me is: if an airbag is sensible insurance, then so too is the emergency/injury stuff in cold harsh climates. I do not think having one form of insurance should rule out being able to carry the other. But I can only choose one, so I go with the emergency gear and avoid unstable snow with high consequences.
    I can get all that into the Float 32. It's tight, but I can get it in. The main thing for me is that I have had to relook at how I pack this pack - the avy tool compartment works fine, but the google and extra top compartment are small. I can't get all that I'm used to in them, so I end up putting things in the main compartment, which in turn results in a different approach when it comes time to get in the pack. The full zips help, but I do like being able to use other compartments. The question is do I want to carry an airbag everyday while guiding/skiing in the backcountry... no. I've decided to use it when the hazard is considerable or more...

  7. #32
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    I could squeeze it all in as well. But a squeeze is not what makes my life easy when I am constantly in and out of my pack every day. Also, I like a bigger goggle/top compartment as it lest me store all teh small and frequent access items without needing to delve into the main compartment.

    I've pretty much decided not to get an avalanche airbag. I'd rather just my continue my efforts to avoid avalanche terrain when ever there is a question mark hanging over the slope. I operate with a very big margin to allow for uncertainty and seldom ski deep steep big slopes as a result.

    I see an amazing number of airbag wearers however who do ski big, steep and deep slopes... and have spent more on their airbag than they have spent on their education.

    In a perverse way, airbags are becoming a primary indicator of who is more likely to end up in an avalanche. The majority of proud airbag wearing recreational skiers I met would be incapable of guiding me safely through avalanche terrain on any given day. I would not trust their decisions with my well-being. Conversely, the people I know who's decisions I would trust... don't wear airbags.
    Life is not lift served.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    The majority of proud airbag wearing recreational skiers I met would be incapable of guiding me safely through avalanche terrain on any given day. I would not trust their decisions with my well-being. Conversely, the people I know who's decisions I would trust... don't wear airbags.
    what about the majority of proud airbag wearing non-recreational skiers?
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

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  9. #34
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    Well, there is them. True. But it doesn't invalidate my point, Mr BCA Athlete .

    The BCA 32 pack looks good, I don't want to detract from that. Probably the only small design 'flaw' that jumped out at me was the compression strap stressing the main compartment zipper when pulled tight, meaning the zipper doesn't run smoothly when compression straps are tightened.
    Life is not lift served.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    Well, there is them. True. But it doesn't invalidate my point, Mr BCA Athlete .

    The BCA 32 pack looks good, I don't want to detract from that. Probably the only small design 'flaw' that jumped out at me was the compression strap stressing the main compartment zipper when pulled tight, meaning the zipper doesn't run smoothly when compression straps are tightened.
    I didn't realize your comment referring to proud airbag wearing recreational skiers only applied to those wearing BCA airbags.

    FWIW where I ski most of the time the vast majority of the BC users display shockingly poor etiquette/knowledge. The vast minority are wearing airbags. The ones that do tend to be the more experienced BC skiers that realize airbags are just another safety tool, nothing more, nothing less. Same as a transceiver. Do you wear a transceiver?

    During my trips to Japan I've noticed that the average day BC user (and shockingly, even some of the guides) has the latest and greatest gear including probably a 50+++ liter backpack with all kinds of shit stuffed into and dangling off of it (glacier ropes and harnesses while skiing the trees? Really?), and yet they have absolutely no clue about what they are doing, where they are going, or how to use their gear. We're talking people wearing full Haglöfs kits with matching backpacks, Guardians on Rocker2s with ski crampons sliding backwards with every step on a perfect skintrack (or even worse, they have some big fat ski with an AT binding and they're stomping up the skintrack on SNOWSHOES!) and cutting in/around/under/over people in areas that might be suspect.

    Your point may be that airbag users are dumb and going to die, but my experience is that it doesn't matter what gear the user does/does not have if they don't have the brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by snuttypants View Post
    Anyone have issue with the shovel pocket getting torn by the shovel?
    Not on the 32, but on the 22 my Dynafit bindings did wear through the outer Cordura fabric (that tiny 0.5mm outer lip of the metal toe pin was rubbing against the shovel blade with every step) when I had my skis lashed onto the back during an hour-long trail hike descent. The only other durability issue I've had is I pulled one of the little yellow zipper pulls off and I slammed the sternum strap buckle in my car door which broke one of the teeth.
    Last edited by hop; 01-30-2013 at 06:51 AM.
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

    The Bonin Petrels

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by snuttypants View Post
    Anyone have issue with the shovel pocket getting torn by the shovel?
    Had that problem with my 36. Had to do with how tight the shovel pocket is - the tighter the pocket, the more abrasion from it rubbing.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Had that problem with my 36. Had to do with how tight the shovel pocket is - the tighter the pocket, the more abrasion from it rubbing.
    Was thinking of throwing some of that super fabric on there.

  13. #38
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    I've sold the 36 and got the 32. The 32 fits just the same, but feels way less bulky. The dedicated tool pocket is nice and roomy also. I am not sure i like the one small compression strap deal. The ability to swap airbags to another pack is cool... But i will never buy a smaller one. Overall, a good step fwd in the airbag pack progression.

    Sending it from NorCal
    I love my family. Kids are the best.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hop View Post
    what about the majority of proud airbag wearing non-recreational skiers?
    Lol. Another tool IMO. I don't rely on it to save my life... Do the proper assessments, continually educate yourself and ski the backcountry with people you trust your life with.

    Sending it from NorCal
    I love my family. Kids are the best.
    http://www.praxisskis.com

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by buildakicker View Post
    Lol. Another tool IMO. I don't rely on it to save my life... Do the proper assessments, continually educate yourself and ski the backcountry with people you trust your life with.

    Sending it from NorCal
    I have an airbag for the same reason you have an airbag. We're both tools?
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

    The Bonin Petrels

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hop View Post
    I have an airbag for the same reason you have an airbag. We're both tools?
    Tools that will save a life.

    Sending it from NorCal
    I love my family. Kids are the best.
    http://www.praxisskis.com

  17. #42
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    Mar 2010
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    Thanks guys, gonna fill er up today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zesty Not Spicy View Post
    Make sure you get a set of O rings from BCA so you can replace it before refilling. I'd lean towards going to a scuba shop. I've heard some paintball places just use a compressor so you'll end up with a lot of moisture in your cylinder if they don't run it through a dryer first.
    This will be the first fill of the empty canister sent with the bag, do I need to replace the o rings on the trigger pin now or only after it's deployed and then refilled?


    Edit: Pulled off the trigger housing and o-ring is good to go
    Last edited by Piggity; 01-30-2013 at 02:20 PM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    I've pretty much decided not to get an avalanche airbag. I'd rather just my continue my efforts to avoid avalanche terrain when ever there is a question mark hanging over the slope. I operate with a very big margin to allow for uncertainty and seldom ski deep steep big slopes as a result.

    I see an amazing number of airbag wearers however who do ski big, steep and deep slopes... and have spent more on their airbag than they have spent on their education.

    In a perverse way, airbags are becoming a primary indicator of who is more likely to end up in an avalanche. The majority of proud airbag wearing recreational skiers I met would be incapable of guiding me safely through avalanche terrain on any given day. I would not trust their decisions with my well-being. Conversely, the people I know who's decisions I would trust... don't wear airbags.
    I don't really follow your logic. There is virtually always a question mark hanging over the slope to some degree (pun intended). I don't disagree that a huge percentage of people in the BC have no business being there, regardless of whether they have an airbag or not. But that in no way should influence your personal decision about wearing one. Why do all the people you know and trust not wear an airbag? If one was given to them free of charge would they refuse it? How many highly skilled, highly educated and highly experienced skiers have been killed or injured in an avalanche? No reasonable person goes out for a tour telling themselves "gee, there's probably a pretty good chance I'll get caught in an avy today".

    I think you could make the argument that airbags could potentially lead to more avy incidents as people without the skills venture into the BC or people with all the skills make the conscious or subconscious decisions to push the boundaries more than they would without a bag. The minute I step into the BC I'm taking on some level of risk so to me an airbag is simply another piece of equipment that helps midigate that risk. The only caveat I have is making sure my decision making is never influenced by the fact that I'm wearing one.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by hop View Post
    I didn't realize your comment referring to proud airbag wearing recreational skiers only applied to those wearing BCA airbags.

    FWIW where I ski most of the time the vast majority of the BC users display shockingly poor etiquette/knowledge. The vast minority are wearing airbags. The ones that do tend to be the more experienced BC skiers that realize airbags are just another safety tool, nothing more, nothing less. Same as a transceiver. Do you wear a transceiver?

    During my trips to Japan I've noticed that the average day BC user (and shockingly, even some of the guides) has the latest and greatest gear including probably a 50+++ liter backpack with all kinds of shit stuffed into and dangling off of it (glacier ropes and harnesses while skiing the trees? Really?), and yet they have absolutely no clue about what they are doing, where they are going, or how to use their gear. We're talking people wearing full Haglöfs kits with matching backpacks, Guardians on Rocker2s with ski crampons sliding backwards with every step on a perfect skintrack (or even worse, they have some big fat ski with an AT binding and they're stomping up the skintrack on SNOWSHOES!) and cutting in/around/under/over people in areas that might be suspect.

    Your point may be that airbag users are dumb and going to die, but my experience is that it doesn't matter what gear the user does/does not have if they don't have the brain.
    Think you are taking it a bit further than I was

    "I didn't realize your comment referring to proud airbag wearing recreational skiers only applied to those wearing BCA airbags. "

    It doesn't. That is your twist.

    "FWIW where I ski most of the time the vast majority of the BC users display shockingly poor etiquette/knowledge. The vast minority are wearing airbags."

    I see a strong positive correlation between airbag wearing and bad decision making. I probably also see a much wider international set of people skiing outside resort boundaries. These people would make bad decisions whether they had a bag or not. In recent times, the moment I see an airbag, I assume the worst until proven otherwise. It looks experienced and careful, but in reality, it is a counter-indicator.

    "During my trips to Japan I've noticed that the average day BC user (and shockingly, even some of the guides) has the latest and greatest gear including probably a 50+++ liter backpack with all kinds of shit stuffed into and dangling off of it etc"

    It is awful. There is no ski guiding standard here and no regulation at all. Any one can do it, and they usually do it very poorly. Some guides (Japanese and foreign) make a private effort to do the right thing, or do as best as they can in terms of training and apprenticeship. However this costs real money and time, and yet gets you no further in the local industry at all, other than internal ethics knowing that you are working for the benefit of your clients in the long run. Image is everything as well - you have to have the full clown costume to look the part and get admiration from your 'clients'. You have to have 'sponsors' or at least appear that you do. All image, very little spatial awareness or terrain movement common sense. The more you come to Japan, the more you learn to just block it out. Snow shoes are also still shockingly popular, even in deep Hokkaido.
    Life is not lift served.

  20. #45
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    Zesty - I did not say that airbags lead to bad decisions. My point is that airbags tend to reliably highlight who has had the least training and who spend the least time considering a slopes shape and how the avalanche problem is sitting on it and what the consequences of their exposure might be. Those people are bad decision makers whether they have an airbag or not.

    And yes, I know people who do not use airbags even though they can get them free or cheap. I would not use one if free. I'd rather just always avoid big slopes over 35 degrees with fresh deep snow or the chance of windslab. You don't need an airbag if you don't ski avalanche terrain on days where the snow might be capable of producing an avalanche. This involves a lot of uncertainty, so I don't ski steep fresh snow very often. I knowingly and purposefully avoid those situations, every step I take and every turn I make I am thinking about whether my risk has changed and if I need to adjust my position on the terrain to mitigate that risk. Most people knowingly and purposefully seek out fresh deep snow on steep big terrain. So they need an airbag.

    Note: I ski a coastal pack with few persistent problems. This is probably important context.
    Life is not lift served.

  21. #46
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    I guess if you are never in avy terrain then so be it. Based on your argument I would have to assume that you also don't bother carrying a beacon, shovel and probe. Again, the overall jongness of other airbag wearers should play no part in your own decision about wearing one unless vanity is the overriding variable.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    Think you are taking it a bit further than I was

    "I didn't realize your comment referring to proud airbag wearing recreational skiers only applied to those wearing BCA airbags. "

    It doesn't. That is your twist.

    "FWIW where I ski most of the time the vast majority of the BC users display shockingly poor etiquette/knowledge. The vast minority are wearing airbags."

    I see a strong positive correlation between airbag wearing and bad decision making. I probably also see a much wider international set of people skiing outside resort boundaries. These people would make bad decisions whether they had a bag or not. In recent times, the moment I see an airbag, I assume the worst until proven otherwise. It looks experienced and careful, but in reality, it is a counter-indicator.

    "During my trips to Japan I've noticed that the average day BC user (and shockingly, even some of the guides) has the latest and greatest gear including probably a 50+++ liter backpack with all kinds of shit stuffed into and dangling off of it etc"

    It is awful. There is no ski guiding standard here and no regulation at all. Any one can do it, and they usually do it very poorly. Some guides (Japanese and foreign) make a private effort to do the right thing, or do as best as they can in terms of training and apprenticeship. However this costs real money and time, and yet gets you no further in the local industry at all, other than internal ethics knowing that you are working for the benefit of your clients in the long run. Image is everything as well - you have to have the full clown costume to look the part and get admiration from your 'clients'. You have to have 'sponsors' or at least appear that you do. All image, very little spatial awareness or terrain movement common sense. The more you come to Japan, the more you learn to just block it out. Snow shoes are also still shockingly popular, even in deep Hokkaido.
    So what was the point of your mention of me being "Mr. BCA Athlete"?

    You might see a larger set of international BC people but then again you might not. As you say, having the gear doesn't mean you have the knowledge. Around here it might just mean you have a membership to REI or MEC. I'm not going to say I'm an "expert" because there's always a lot more to learn, but the moment I see anyone anywhere near me in the BC I assume they are fucking clueless until proven otherwise. This happens way before I can see what kind of backpack they have on or figure out what country they're from.

    Sometimes I can do my best to avoid the scary steep slopes you're also avoiding, but I can't always avoid the other party that's going to cause a slide that might take me out unless I stay at home. Hence the airbag.

    You never answered my question: Do you wear a transceiver?
    Putting the "core" in corporate, one turn at a time.

    Metalmücil 2010 - 2013 "Go Home" album is now a free download

    The Bonin Petrels

  23. #48
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    I don't know why this is even a debate...
    Either you choose to wear an airbag or not. No one is forcing you to either way. It is not like a helmet law - you decide if you want the "added safety" of an airbag or not. You decide to avoid avalanche terrain all together, or you decide to make your best judgements but still stack the cards in your favor by wearing a beacon, carrying a shovel and a probe, not wearing your pole straps and maybe investing in an airbag. There is NO DEBATE. "It's just like, your opinion, man". So either you decide to wear one or you don't. Don't let wearing one influence your decision...

    As far as the guiding scene in Japan being a free for all... that's disappointing. Japan (JFMGA) is a member of the IFMGA and you'd think they'd meet the standards of Europe. Hopefully they get a handle on it and ban the fucking use of snowshoes for backcountry skiing!!!

  24. #49
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthCentralShralper View Post
    As far as the guiding scene in Japan being a free for all... that's disappointing. Japan (JFMGA) is a member of the IFMGA and you'd think they'd meet the standards of Europe. Hopefully they get a handle on it and ban the fucking use of snowshoes for backcountry skiing!!!
    so's the AMGA and that doesn't stop many shmoes here from calling themselves "guides". can't deny that airbags are the latest piece of kit for the core mountain skier (see: Scanditrash)

  25. #50
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    nobody knows what the mountain is going to do, I wish everybody good luck - because that is what people who are "good decision makers" have had up to this point. May it continue for all.
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

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