Car collecting for budget minded car nuts.

[basinbeater]

I confess, I am a car junkie. I have a small collection, and I want to see your collection and wants as well as share mine.
I have talked about this with my brother in law as he sells Land Rovers, and has similar thoughts.
I want a collection of cars. Cars that I can drive and are great to drive. I am on a budget, I have a new baby and a new house with a larger mortgage. New cars don't interest me much. They all look kind of blah, and I can't afford them anyways.
I have needs. I need a good SUV to take me camping and function as my pickup truck. I need a car that goes in the snow for my winter commute. I need something fast and topless in the summer.

I have managed to get all 3 of those needs covered nicely with my little collection.

SUV: 1991 FJ80 Toyota Landcruiser. 3fe, slow but reliable. Threw some new shoes and a locker in with a 1" lift, and it seems to do what I want it to do. Purchase price, $2500.


Winter Commuter Car: 1988 BMW e30 325ix. This is a manual 5spd, coupe. With studded snow tires, it goes in the snow. This one is getting some love this week. New brakes and exhaust. This is a great little car, and I think it will get the lions share of the miles this year. Purchase price, $2500.


Summer Sports Car: 1991 Toyota SW22 MR2 Turbo. This car is a blast, little loud, but with the top off going 85 driving home up parleys, it is a good time. Used to get tracked a bunch. Kid and new house took care of that. Not real reliable. Purchase price, $7000.


I've been a fan of the old E24 6 series BMWs for a long time. A nice looking one recently came up on KSL for $3500 or so. I want it. But I have no space. Garage is full, and I have managed to talk the rents into letting me store the MR2 in their garage for the winter. Oh well.
Here is what I want for my civilized summer commuter. Possibly the best looking car ever.


I also used to have and race a Porsche 944, and that was a great car, so I think it would be fun to have one of those in the stable. Plus, for being old cars, they are reliable, well balanced, and they look surprisingly modern, the lines aged very well.



So who out there has an affordable quiver of cars? What do you wish you could realistically add to your collection?
Anyone want to share a storage garage?

[bagtagley]

I've been bugging the shit out of my neighbor to sell his '95 Cruiser. He almost wavered recently, but I think he's going to end up wanting too much for it.

Buddy drove a 6 Series in HS. It was pieced together from two separate totaled cars. It had some quirks, but was a great car to drive. Definitely a timeless look.

One day, I'm going to buy an Audi 4KQ and drop in a VR6. Sorry, all I have is a dream beater quiver. My actual beater quiver is much less interesting.

[stfu&gbtw]

BB - you have some great taste in cars. I am also a huge fan of the BMW 6 series and the Porsche 944. The little Toy trucks are super reliable and workable as well.

I have my eyes on getting into an old Porsche 912 (~$5,000):



A suzuki samurai (~$5,000):



And an old MB 500 (~$10,000):



And a Ferrari Mondial Cabriolet (~$25,000):



I know it's not the best Ferrari ever made, but it's one you can buy for less than $30K that looks feels and sounds like a Ferrari. It's not like any of them are reliable. I grew up in the late 70's and early 80's, so I have a soft spot for crappy Ferraris. I even liked the 412!

[userA]

VW bugs rule the planet

[basinbeater]

STFU, check out this post over on Bringatrailer.com
http://bringatrailer.com/2012/12/21/...gtb-obsession/

I like samurais. And I like the old 912, but if it was me I would try to get into a 6 cyl 911. I used to have a 1975 911s targa that was a fun car, but it eventually died of cancer and needing an engine rebuild. Sold that one for parts. It actually was surprisingly good in the snow with the engine over the rear wheels and all.
I could be convinced to add an audi to the lineup. I like the old original Audi Quattro. The coupe. Heard the electrical system on those can be nasty.

[Caucasian Asian]

BB- Have you ever considered a V6 swap in the Mr2? It sounds like it's a pretty easy swap that results in good power and reliability. And the V6 should run well on 87 octane.

http://www.woodsport.org/joomla/inde...ne-conversions

MK2 with 3VZ-FE (V6 powerplant)
So why go V6?

A question thats asked a lot and a good one too,the 3vz-fe is toyotas best kept engine secret.They tucked it away in the big cruiser of the range the toyota camry,if only they had the foresight to use this unit in the mk2 like we are doing today! It really doesnt serve its full purpose in the heavyweight camry and is further strangled to death on a horrible auto gearbox.Having said that it still hauls the camry to 60 fairly quickly.But its in the mk2 Mr2 where it comes into its own.The V6 in stock form,simply transplanted from camry to mr2 with no mods,will give you stock mr2 turbo performance but with big differences. (this performance claim is proven)

The differences being driveability,bottom end torque,silky smooth power delivery,an engine that purrs at idle and then roars like thunder on full throttle like only a v6 can.Quite simply the noise these things make is to die for but by far the best advantage is the throttle response....no lag with these fellas! The torque curve from 2000rpm to 2500rpm is practically vertical.
What are they like to drive?

The V6 in a mk2 totally transforms its behaviour on the road.Mr2 engines in general need plenty of revs to get them off the mark,this leads to clutches burning out quicker than in other cars,blame yamaha's engine design for that one! With the V6 you can drop the clutch in 2nd gear and still pull away with minimal revs.On the road its very civilised,will happily cruise all day without you even knowing its got an engine in there at all (Mr2 owners that have test driven our V6 demo car have commented they couldnt hear the engine running at junctions).But when opened up it will pick up from 4th gear at 20mph and launch hard as the revs rise,no need to change down to get power out of this engine,it throws you back hard and keeps you there.

On top of that theres total reliability,just look at any mr2 forum's mechanical section,littered with engine problems and in particular turbo engine problems.I love the 3s-gte but it does have its reliability issues,theres exceptions to every rule of course but they do seem to have problem areas.O2 sensors,AFM's, underboosting , overboosting , turbos blowing up,knock sensors failing the list goes on.....none of that nonsense with the 3vz-fe v6.What you get is a bulletproof (that word's used a lot for some engines but this one really is) engine that will go on for 300k no problem,no issues at all with cranks/rods/pistons or rings...indeed we have seen a 200k+ engine with perfect bores and still with the factory honing marks!

If theres a weak point with the V6 its head gaskets, they are known to fail from 100k+ but we replace these as routine on every conversion so its not an issue.

So thats a little insight into why people go v6,it transforms your mk2 into a silky smooth cruiser and into a snarling beast when opened up.Turbo performance with NA response and reliability.
What levels of performance can i expect?

Theres been a lot of debate about this recently so i thought it best to clear it up.Simply put a stock v6 will perform to stock rev1/2 turbo levels,i believe the stock turbo does the 1/4 mile in 14.6 secs...here is a video of one of our TB members returning a 14.2 sec 1/4 mile.

MK2 V6 over the 1/4 mile (youtube link)
Can my car be converted?

Yes,any mk2 mr2 either NA or Turbo, 5s-fe,3s-ge or 3s-gte can be converted,it will simply use your existing gearbox and driveshafts.Both NA and Turbo gearboxes will handle the power of the V6 easily.With each conversion a new clutch is also fitted.We are currently looking into wether the V6 can be fitted onto the mk2 auto gearbox too although this is a limited market and unlikely to be popular.
Can i keep my air con system with the v6 swap?

Yes,the camry v6 has an air con pump fitted as standard,but it will mean custom pipes being made to connect it up and will need recharging so it will add £190 to the cost of the conversion if you want to keep it (£115 for re-gassing and £75 labour/pipe modification).Most v6 owners are opting to ditch the air con as it costs a few bhp,but retaining the air con is not a problem.
If i have a turbo or NA mk2 exhaust fitted with the conversion will any future exhaust still fit?

Yes,we modify the v6 downpipes so that whatever silencer system is first fitted it has the same attachment point....meaning if we do a v6 conversion and use an NA rear silencer then any NA rear silencer will bolt straight up afterwards from then on.

Likewise with a turbo exhaust,if i fit a turbo mongoose for example,that could be removed in future and ANY other turbo rear silencer replaced,its part of the swap that i insist on doing so that v6'ers arent constantly needing custom made exhausts in the future.

If an NA exhaust was first used and you wanted to convert to a turbo one the v6 downpipe would only require minor modifying.
Does anything need cutting? firewalls etc?

No,the V6 will fit in the mk2 bay without modifying any firewalls or chassis rails,apart from the drivers side engine mount on the engine that needs fabricating nothing is altered on the car itself.In fact once fitted they look like they belong in a mk2 engine bay.

Theres about 10-15 more man hours involved in getting the TRD charger to work on this engine and as a result will require around £300 more in labour to go down this route.Power will be in the 280bhp region at 4psi.

Can the cambelt be changed easily with a v6 in an mr2?

Yes,there is more room to change the belt than when the v6 was in the camry it came from.There is about the same space to change the timing belt as a normal 3s-ge engined car.

What other supporting mods will i need ?

None really....but upgrading the brakes to late spec is always better with an engine upgrade.Also running wider tyres on the rear might be wise! I use 225's but 235 or 245 would be ideal.

Will my gauges and warning lights work as before?

Yes,all of your gauges and lights will work,even the check engine light.The tacho signal is getting a 6 pulse signal instead of 4 so it reads higher than normal but we swap the camry tacho circuit board into the mk2 clocks to rectify this.On turbo models having the conversion done your turbo boost gauge will no longer work for obvious reasons.

What level of finish can i expect?

Each engine is fully degreased and jetwash blasted clean,then repainted and detailed to whatever colour scheme you like.Its a full nut and bolt detailing job and all major components are done.....heres the typical level of finish on a v6 prior to install.

How will it affect my insurance ?

Not as much as you'd think,we have received quotes that are only £50-£100 more than a 3s-ge NA mk2 model and actually cheaper than insuring a tubby as the engine isnt rated that high (200bhp/200lbs/ft).

All of the packages come with the following.

• V6 engine degreased,engine detailed,both head gaskets replaced (wether they are gone or not),cam belt changed,new oils,filters,antifreeze etc.
• A new clutch kit,either NA or turbo depending on what model mk2 you have,supplied and fitted,if you are happy with your current clutch then the job is cheaper by the cost of a clutch,but of course its always better to fit new on a job like this.
• A custom flywheel supplied and fitted
• A bespoke drivers engine mount supplied
• Mk2 engine bay cleaned and if need be repainted in stock colour or colour of your choice
• Induction kit and AFM adapter ,or if you want to use your current one?
• Exhaust downpipes modified to fit your current exhaust system or any other exhaust system you may wish to have installed.
• Tacho modified and calibrated to accurately read the v6 engine speed.

All engines now have fully rebuilt bottom ends with every conversion.

What is the cost of conversion ?

Cost wise we offer a few packages. For your conversion i need to buy a complete camry and then overhaul its engine with fresh head gaskets/timing belt as above etc.
3vz-fe supplied and fitted with everything above - £3450
1mz-fe supplied and fitted with everything above - £3950
Some completed conversion pics

Just a handful of the Mk2 Mr2 V6 engine conversions we have completed, they total over 120 successful conversions to date.

A Woodsport Mk2 V6 at Harewood Hillclimb

[PassTheDutchie]

I'm not a collector, but I used to have a third generation Honda Prelude 2.0 SI (c. 1988-1990) as a second car. Four wheel steering was amazing--gotta be one of the best handling cars ever mass produced. IIRC, it outperformed every car in this respect (including supercars) during its run. Driving it was like being in a gocart on rails. Coupled with 5 speed manual=just silly fun. If I were in a place I could take advantage of it, I'd pick one if I could find one in decent shape.

[XXX-er]

My brother in-law collected studebakers he claimed they were very cheap to own/fix and there were lots of parts available

[Hugh Conway]

911s aren't in the "cheap and budget" category anymore. For that matter 912's aren't cheap anymore, either.

For some reason I've a desire for a Maserati Quattroporte III

big, fast cruising sedan with one hell of a leather interior. Good condition examples can go for as little as $10k

[stfu&gbtw]

STFU, check out this post over on Bringatrailer.com
http://bringatrailer.com/2012/12/21/...gtb-obsession/

I like samurais. And I like the old 912, but if it was me I would try to get into a 6 cyl 911. I used to have a 1975 911s targa that was a fun car, but it eventually died of cancer and needing an engine rebuild. Sold that one for parts. It actually was surprisingly good in the snow with the engine over the rear wheels and all.
I could be convinced to add an audi to the lineup. I like the old original Audi Quattro. The coupe. Heard the electrical system on those can be nasty.

I like the Mondial, and the 400 series, but even I can't get down with the 308... lol... But that guy did one hell of a job restoring that car.

I agree, the 911's are more fun to drive, but I think the pokey engine (90 bhp!) is one of the reasons you can find so many nicer 912's.

[stfu&gbtw]

911s aren't in the "cheap and budget" category anymore. For that matter 912's aren't cheap anymore, either.

The 912 I posted a pic of has an asking price of $5500.

[Hugh Conway]

The 912 I posted a pic of has an asking price of $5500.

Ahhh, colorado math, at first it's $5k, then it's $5,500 then it's $5,950 for what's still a beaten non-running 912 with crappy rims, no seats, and who knows what the fuck else going on (because the dealer claims it has a 6-cylinder). If that's a bargain here's the chance of a lifetime Maserati!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-...-/130830269607

912s have much cheaper parts cost, for the early series better weight distribution vs. the 911 with less mass in the ass. Both Gullwing Motors (the one you listed) and Beverly Hills Car Club (the other listing with "cheap" 912s on AutoTrader) have a shit reputation.

[PNWbrit]

gotta be one of the best handling cars ever mass produced. IIRC,

YDRC......

[stfu&gbtw]

Ahhh, colorado math, at first it's $5k, then it's $5,500 then it's $5,950 for what's still a beaten non-running 912 with crappy rims, no seats, and who knows what the fuck else going on (because the dealer claims it has a 6-cylinder). If that's a bargain here's the chance of a lifetime Maserati!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-...-/130830269607

912s have much cheaper parts cost, for the early series better weight distribution vs. the 911 with less mass in the ass. Both Gullwing Motors (the one you listed) and Beverly Hills Car Club (the other listing with "cheap" 912s on AutoTrader) have a shit reputation.

You're right - I didn't read the description.

[schuss]

If you pay 5k for a samurai, you're paying too much. I bought mine stock for $600, then sold it completely decked out ($10k worth of work, probably) after some years of wheeling for $4k.

I've always wanted a 240SX converted to Japanese spec

[hutash]

I wouldn't call the OP's cars a collection, but he does have some nice used cars, better then most.

I have a '94 MB 320, probably MB's last well built car, but it is not a collector car.

A '69? 912 is not a collector car, a 911? maybe in twenty more years.

[OSECS]

Gawd I love that 6 series except for the totally ghey ALPINE logo and the striping. Had a buddy get one right off the boat what sweet ride.

My needs are simple. I have a daily driver and I have a 65 convert. mustang I've been working on for a while and drive when its above 40 hasn't rained and isn't going to rain. The top never goes up if its on the road.

I want a 66 mustang fastback. Always loved the mustangs, want to do a resto mod job on the fastback rack and pinion, 5 speed manual, hydraulic brakes, updated sport seating, elec. ignition, roller rocker 302. discs all the way around.

[PNWbrit]

I'd really like another '78ish Alfa GTV one of these days.... my first car. It dissolved.



Apparently My wife's, Grandfather has bequeathed me the mid '70s delivery mileage De Tomaso Pantera that's sitting in his SoCal car collection. That might be fun.

[Crass3000]

I could go for a quiver of the newere style Chevy Nova/Geo Prisms. Those things run forever and are all toyota engines. Hopefully if you collect them you don't need heat.

[Chugachjed]

I still regret letting my wife talk me into selling my Eagle. 1981 AMC Eagle SX-4, way cooler than a Maserat IMHO.

[OSECS]

I'd really like another '78ish Alfa GTV one of these days.... my first car. It dissolved.



Apparently My wife's, Grandfather has bequeathed me the mid '70s delivery mileage De Tomaso Pantera that's sitting in his SoCal car collection. That might be fun.

I get a little woody just thinking about those Panteras ......

[basinbeater]

Hutash, you are right, 3 cheap used cars a collection does not make. However, what is collectible is up for debate. A car doesn't need to be defined as a collector car by age or rarity, or anything else.
I like to collect the cars that I think are cool, that's all it takes in my book.
Those who have good taste, will inevitably be the ones owning the cars when they do finally become collector cars according to others. Call me the future Jay Leno of beaters.

Dutchie, I had a co worker who was a car nut, and he liked the hondas. He always talked about how his dream car was a prelude SH with the 4wheel steering, but he always bought cheap accords and flipped them. I talked him into cutting that crap out and go get the car he wanted. He did. Never saw him so happy. Course then he wouldn't shup up about preludes all day, everyday.

I have read about those 3vz conversions, but I like tinkering with the MR2, and being a turbo car, it is easy to mess with. I have gone through a couple turbos, but the other stuff that has gone wrong has been minor.

Hugh, if you like those, you might check out Alfa GTVs as well. I test drove one a few years that was for sale for like $2500, and it was cool! Pretty rare, V6, rear mounted transaxle, 4 doors, and looked cool and sounded amazing. If I had had the money back then, I would have bought it. edit: PNW beat me to it.

[Chugachjed]

More of a quiver than a collection, but cool nonetheless.

[Chugachjed]

Eagles in action.

[Caucasian Asian]

Gawd I love that 6 series except for the totally ghey ALPINE logo and the striping.

While i'm not too stoked on the big pinstripe either, it's ALPINA, not Alpine. That makes it ok in my books.