Inbounds Avy at Crystal

[doughboyshredder]

You do take every opportunity to judge people.

pot kettle black....

I know you have a hard on for me, but try to keep it to yourself.

[concretejungle]

Whatever moron.

[doughboyshredder]

Whatever moron.

Ah ah so you don't think Patrol should be wearing beacons as part of their standard gear?

Sounds like you're the MORAN.

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[Amphibious1]

yeah, she was just on the other side of the tree, you can see her later in the video.

at 15:36 and 15:56 into the video you can see the victim standing in the pit we dug her out of. (not the one in the foreground boot packing up with skis, but the person in the hole to the right of that skier against the tree, low)

I'm on that other side in the green jacket at 16:28 and 16:35.

[PNWbrit]

- there were many patrollers not wearing a beacon (which I find astounding)

Many? Really?

If this is accurate I strongly suggest you email Crystal mtn management and patrol.

They are supposed to be required to wear them at all times.

[ccwaskier]

Many? Really?

If this is accurate I strongly suggest you email Crystal mtn management and patrol.

They are supposed to be required to wear them at all times.

I too have a very hard time believing that any patroller was not wearing a beacon. From my experience all Crystal patrollers wear beacons, especially on a day when they were doing control work. I think in this situation beacon searches proved ineffective because so many people were in the area and continued to enter the area with beacons in send mode.

[jetlag]

Like someone else said, its hard to play the situation from an armchair no matter how much of a shit show it looks like. I think the lesson to be taken home from this is that avy beacons are still pretty primitive. I get false readings on mine all the time. I could see them being real frustrating when youre searching for a signal thats not even there.

[dorikin]

The Signal was there! It was coming from some dumbass who didn't know how to switch to search. Flux lines so when they got readings of 14 or 18 in the direction downslope outside of deposition zone it was probably an unburied observer
15 meters behind them who didn't switch modes.

And at 6 minutes does someone really say "turn the probes off?"



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[Poop~Ghost]

Was she wearing a beacon? I got the feeling from the search that she wasn't.

[The AD]

If you own a beacon why wouldn't you just wear it all the time?

[auvgeek]

^^Seriously? Do you wear a beacon every day you ride in the resort? (Not trying to be a dick, just an honest question).

I only wear a beacon in the resort if there's been a storm or if I'm venturing out of bounds. Unless your partners carry beacon, shovel, probe and you practice safe skiing techniques (stay within visual contact, etc), then why bother? But, like most of the people in that video, I generally carry avy gear on days like that one.

[The AD]

^^Seriously? Do you wear a beacon every day you ride in the resort? (Not trying to be a dick, just an honest question).

I only wear a beacon in the resort if there's been a storm or if I'm venturing out of bounds.

I was going a little overboard, but yes, if there's significant new snow. And then you've got the beacon if you need it. Think about this particular situation. This girl's partners wouldn't have needed beacons, probes or shovels. There were enough people around that she probably would have been found easily had she been wearing a beacon. It was almost dumb luck she was found without one. I just don't see why not to wear one.

[xtrmjoe]

Once you have a beacon the cost of use is batteries. I beep inbounds a lot out of habit, on at the car off at the bar. The best part of a ski day is enjoying the next. To much weird shit happening in bounds these days.

I assume if i ever need it inbounds it will be to help someone else. Either way I'm only out a beers worth of batteries a season.

If she had one she would have been found in minutes or less thanks to others with theirs.

[oftpiste]

Do those of you you who beep inbounds as a matter of course carry packs as well? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to beep but not carry, though you certainly see people doing so.

So much to learn in that vid, some the most obvious being wear your beacon and don't put it in your pack, and throw the goddam bag your probe came in away!

[The AD]

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to beep but not carry

Why not? What if you're the one who gets buried?

[oftpiste]

^^^^^what if you're not? seems pretty selfish.

[The AD]

^^^^^what if you're not? seems pretty selfish.

I don't think so. I've been cat skiing before where everyone is required to wear a beacon, but only the guides are wearing packs with probes and shovel. It's sort of an insurance policy. If you are inbounds patrol can probably get to where you are quickly. Wearing a beacon is not inconvenient, wearing a pack is.

[concretejungle]

I don't think so. I've been cat skiing before where everyone is required to wear a beacon, but only the guides are wearing packs with probes and shovel. It's sort of an insurance policy. If you are inbounds patrol can probably get to where you are quickly. Wearing a beacon is not inconvenient, wearing a pack is.

Quite the justification.

[mtngirl79]

Why not? What if you're the one who gets buried?

Maybe there is a market for this



after all...

I wouldn't expect anyone to dig me out if I wasn't prepared to do the same for them...

[hop]

Wearing a beacon is not inconvenient, wearing a pack is.

What if the guides got buried? If I was in an inbounds slide or stuck in a treewell or something, I'd much rather rely on my partners or someone skiing by that could help before 1. someone noticed I was missing 2. figured out where I was missing 3. told patrol 4. patrol came to find me based on 2nd hand (or worse) information. I can't hold my breath very long. Can you?

Wearing a pack with my gear is as natural to me as wearing my seatbelt, or my helmet, or my boots. Now, not having my gear if I needed it would be pretty darn inconvenient, especially for the person I was trying to rescue.

I can see not wearing a beacon or carrying gear if all I did was rip groomers or play in the park.

[The AD]

OK, so everyone else is saying that somehow you're better off without a beacon. Personally I'd rather have one in case I get buried. Yes, agreed it would be nice to be fully geared, but realistically most people aren't going to do that inbounds. I'm not saying everyone out there should be wearing a beacon, but if you do have one, why not use it?

Do you guys also not wear a seatbelt unless everyone else in the car is also wearing one?

[oftpiste]

Quite the justification.

Agreed. And we're not talking about inbounds. We're talking about skiing in avalanche terrain. At xtal, there is absolutely avalanche terrain which is technically inbounds and controlled, as well as easily accessed, uncontrolled side and back country skiing.

Skiing with professional guides on heli or cat trips (I've had the same experience but the guides always welcomed another skier carrying a pack as long as they had some idea of what to do with it if needed) is a different equation. They're in the business of keeping you safe, there's always a tail gunner guide, and many of their guests have no clue how to use the gear beyond what they learn in a 5 minute talk before getting in the cat or heli which is a hindrance in the event of a problem. Inbounds is a different issue as well. At xtal patrol took long enough to get there that she could have been dead if not for the skiers in the area.

Wearing a pack is not that inconvenient once you get your gear organized properly and have the right pack. In the nature of full disclosure, I have always been one who preferred an unencumbered (by beacon and pack) inbounds skiing experience and still do, but my main ski pals like to do spur of the moment OB lines on a fairly regular basis so I'm converting to carrying both unless there's really no possibility of going OB or I'm simply feeling lazy enough that I don't want to walk up hill (not uncommon for me) and know I'll be staying in safe terrain.

Losing friends and knowing others involved in serious slides has definitley sharpened my awareness of these things, and I really don't want to be in any sketchy terrain with someone who only cares about their own safety and not that of everyone in the group.

[The AD]

I think you guys are missing my point to a certain extent. I agree that the best scenario is that everyone has gear and knows how to use it. That's obvious. My point is that if you have a beacon you might as well wear it at all times that there is any chance you could be buried and I don't see how that is somehow being selfish. If you are going backcountry skiing with a group and you're wearing just a beacon any relying on everyone else that's completely different.

[oftpiste]

I guess my feeling is that if you're in a situation safe enough not to carry a pack, there's not much point in wearing a beacon either.

[hop]

Here's my flowchart:

Am I skiing*? If yes, wear beacon and kit**. If no, do not wear beacon and kit.

*for me, skiing at Baker where the boundaries are open and the inbounds, controlled areas can get pretty darn sporting, my partners and I prefer to have the option for properly-equipped backcountry travel immediately instead of having to return to the car to get our gear. There's also the inbounds self-sufficiency idea I already mentioned. When I'm traveling I'm sure as shit wearing my full kit because I probably don't have the same knowledge of terrain and snowpack as I do at home and I definitely did not travel to ski groomers or park.

People can justify their actions however they see fit. The above works for me.

**photo of my kit as carried yesterday and tomorrow.

Clockwise from top left:
skins, shovel, probe, saw, extra gloves, harness, Float 22, "Safety bag" (first aid kit, cpr mask/gloves, 50' knotted p-cord, space blanket, fire starter, strobe, multi-tool), water bottle, knife, spare goggles, headlight, compass, snow study kit, voile straps, yowie/buffs.
Add an extra layer and food per daily requirements and I'm good to go just about anywhere that's not glaciated.