Ketogenesis

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 08-27-2018, 05:17 PM

You can train yourself to better run on fat without going low carb full time. And there are performance costs associated with going low carb, unless you are doing very long, very slow distances.

**doebedoe** · 08-27-2018, 05:55 PM

All I know is that the keto fad is on track to make one of my ski buddies rich. His startup is banging because of it. So please keep at it so he'll fund the promised AK heli week when he cashes out next year.

**buttahflake** · 08-27-2018, 05:59 PM

Yeah, there is no way he hammers 20 miles on a cup of coffee. This Shit is Fucked, who cares if you ‘run’ 20 miles in 4 plus, hours. Get bent, slow fucks.

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 08-27-2018, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

Yeah, there is no way he hammers 20 miles on a cup of coffee. This Shit is Fucked, who cares if you ‘run’ 20 miles in 4 plus, hours. Get bent, slow fucks.

20 miles on a cup of coffee is exactly much how you train yourself to run on fat more efficiently. But you can also go out the next day well fed and go hard. Best of both worlds.

**buttahflake** · 08-27-2018, 06:31 PM

How fat are you fuckers? Jesus Christ.

**t-the-east** · 08-27-2018, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

This Shit is Fucked, who cares if you ‘run’ 20 miles in 4 plus, hours. Get bent, slow fucks.

I almost spit out some beer while reading this, but didn’t want to lose the carbs.

12 minute miles FTW!

**jackstraw** · 08-27-2018, 06:51 PM

I just happened to run across this today. Didn't read the whole thing, so I don't know what it says...so don't argue any points about it with me
..I don't care. I'm dinking a beer, watching surfing, and not fat

https://www.bicycling.com/training/g...your-progress/

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 08-27-2018, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

How fat are you fuckers? Jesus Christ.

Heh.

When House, Backes and Twight climbed the Slovak Direct on Denali they carried nothing but energy gels for food. Not exactly low carb. There was no way they could carry and eat enough calories and climb as fast as they wanted. So they did some training while hungry to get more efficient at burning the fat calories they carry around in their bodies. It worked. For one of his Himalayan objectives (at altitude where appetite and digestion are diminished) House he tried carrying more body fat to see if it would result in better fueling. It didn't. He was just heavier and slower. We all have plenty of fat stores. Having more fat doesn't make you better at using it as fuel.

Miguel Indurain did long rides before eating as part of his training. And I believe it has been key for some notable Ironman winners too. If you go hard enough long enough you can't take in enough calories to match the ones you burn up.

Seems to be less of thing for marathoners and irrelevant for shorter distances.

**2FUNKY** · 08-27-2018, 07:19 PM

I want to know why in the fuck would someone run 20 miles? Nothing I do in life and my sports require that. Fuck that noise.

**Phill** · 08-27-2018, 07:21 PM

Keto, it's like Atkins but for pompous douchebags.

**buttahflake** · 08-27-2018, 07:23 PM

Miguel Indurain had a VO2 max beyond any human ever. His lungs were huge. Was he large and fast going up, hell yes he was. He was also a freak of nature.

**doebedoe** · 08-27-2018, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

How fat are you fuckers? Jesus Christ.

Don't know bout the rest of these cats, but I met Black Diamonds for first time yesterday. I would keto if it meant looking like him. But I imagine I'd have to like...work out and not drink beer all the time and stuff. Nah.

Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

I want to know why in the fuck would someone run 20 miles? Nothing I do in life and my sports require that. Fuck that noise.

Running is a weird drug. I didn't get it until this year. And once you start, you keep using more. And when you can't have it you get all pissy and irritable and use other drugs instead.

Ski touring and mtbing are acceptable substitutes.

**buttahflake** · 08-27-2018, 07:31 PM

It’s endorphins guy, I get it. Key to life. For real. Why, ‘people’ choose to run will always elude me. Especially anyone with Italian blood. Cycling gets you there, only without the painful drudgery, that is running.
Romantic history of cycling, man and machine, not vs machine.
Go on now, ride a bike.

**2FUNKY** · 08-27-2018, 07:46 PM

Oh I get the endorphins thing. For me personally running that long is boring AF. I get the same “high” from high intensity bursts for my workout.

**bean** · 08-28-2018, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

Yeah, there is no way he hammers 20 miles on a cup of coffee. This Shit is Fucked, who cares if you ‘run’ 20 miles in 4 plus, hours. Get bent, slow fucks.

My coffee-only 20-milers were usually at an 8-minute pace, so 2:40ish. Also did some ~22 mile trail runs in about 3:30, and a 1:25 half-marathon TT in a snow/rain mix on just that cup of coffee. I managed a 2:56 marathon from that training cycle, though I had a light breakfast and a few gels for that one. I consider that reasonably quick for a guy with a day job.

**bagtagley** · 08-28-2018, 07:50 AM

You should consider taking in some protein if you're going for more than a couple of hours fasted. Your body will start to consume protein from your lean muscle mass.

**jackstraw** · 08-28-2018, 08:01 AM

When I was on the - bike then run the next day routine etc, 5-6 days a week, I was in the best shape. The combo improved both sports significantly. I love to run short distances, like 5 miles, but my knees don't anymore. I miss running...it's good for the mind...and when you feel yourself becoming fast it's a unique endorphin rush. No wheels, no skis, just the legs and feet cruising...fuck I want my 20yr old knees back!

**bean** · 08-28-2018, 08:02 AM

I don't run anymore and hardly ride bikes outside either, and I don't have the mental toughness to go much past an hour on a spin bike.

**Name Redacted** · 08-28-2018, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bean

I don't run anymore and hardly ride bikes outside either, and I don't have the mental toughness to go much past an hour on a spin bike.

Who does have the mental toughness for 1hr+ anything indoors? Spin bike is for HIIT, not distance.

I've been low-carb for a while now. Not even trying to go full on keto. Lost about 20 and still losing some but slowly, which I like. I find that the day after eating a little more carbs than normal I have a ton of energy to burn, like too much.

I've never been a breakfast guy, so bulletproof coffee before a 1-2 hr bike ride is perfect. Just need to get up early enough to go before work more often.

**bean** · 08-28-2018, 08:42 AM

Spin bike is for whatever I want to use it for. Sometimes that's longer endurance efforts.

Eating much carbohydrate makes me feel like crap now, I couldn't imagine going back to a standard Western diet.

**Name Redacted** · 08-28-2018, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Bean

Spin bike is for whatever I want to use it for. Sometimes that's longer endurance efforts.

Tough to get "longer endurance efforts" in when "I don't have the mental toughness to go much past an hour on a spin bike."

You do you though. Not gonna argue or tell you how to use your personal torture devices.

Personally, I use it for HIIT when I can't get outside, mostly in shoulder seasons.

**jackstraw** · 08-28-2018, 10:50 AM

Shoulder seasons? Is that when you break your shoulder and cannot balance on a bike?

I max out mentally around 25-30 minutes on an indoor bike. It's essentially torture for me and even then I have to read sitting there spinning.

**Name Redacted** · 08-28-2018, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by jackstraw

Shoulder seasons? Is that when you break your shoulder and cannot balance on a bike?.

Shoulder season: when skiing the WROD sucks, the trails are mud/snow, and it's 10 degrees outside. 16 oz curls are my exercise of choice, but I'll sometimes try to sweat them out.

**bean** · 08-28-2018, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Tough to get "longer endurance efforts" in when "I don't have the mental toughness to go much past an hour on a spin bike."

You do you though. Not gonna argue or tell you how to use your personal torture devices.

Personally, I use it for HIIT when I can't get outside, mostly in shoulder seasons.

An hour holding Z3 in the basement is easily worth a two-hour moderate road ride outside for me. Once in a while I'll do an hour and a half. It's usually HIIT or threshold work but once in a while...

I have a small child at home, I don't get outside that often these days.