Do BD Quadrants suck that bad?

[dark_star]

Good to know BD is listening. Thanks for the reply.

I am on the BD boot team and worked extensively on the liners, and feel somewhat compelled to respond to this thread. For Fall 2012 we made a few changes, that may or may not be reflected in these posts, because some people may be commenting on the old (yellow and green) style vs the new (black and green) model. Some points:
• Yes, the shell is pretty high volume, and to address that for the 12/13 season we increased the thickness of the boot board by 3mm (to reduce the overall shell volume) and cored it out more to keep the weight the same and trap more air for additional insulation from the snow.
• We changed the liner construction to move away from the foam underfoot to a denser material (actually recycled pop bottle material) so that the skier’s weight doesn’t compact the foam underfoot and then drop the foot relative to the rest of the liner/shell. A slight difference in thickness here affects the overall volume significantly. Foam underfoot = quick packout
• We added in a flex zone in the achilles area for better walkability. In reading the comments about range of motion, we believe that though we could possibly get more rearward range for long travel across flats, the majority of time is spent going up hill for which we have a significant range of motion that most would agree is adequate. And the Alpine Overlap construction that we use benefits from both low resistance and an expected overlap flex that is appreciated.
• We used a foam vendor from Europe that gave us better insulating and compression ratings than not only our old foam but Intuition’s Ultralon as well. This foam compression set rating gives us less packout than other competing foams.
• We changed the materials to more abrasion-resistant and better-wicking materials (so it also dries out faster for multiple day use.)
• We did extensive fit trials and on-snow ski testing - both internally and with testers around the country - to make sure that the new liner (and using the same construction on the Prime, Slant, and Swift) fit better than the old boots.

Will the boot fit you perfectly? Hard to say; there’s a lot of variation in feet out there and different perceptions of what’s a “perfect” ski boot fit, and there are a lot of good AT boots on the market with different fits. Our liners are thermo-moldable, so if the fit is not perfect out of the box it can be made to fit with a good thermofit. Based on our comprehensive testing we feel confident that we improved the four boots’ fit significantly over the previous generation.

[F.D.V.]

Now have four (powder) days logged on my quadrants and I love them! For my foot shape they are the best there is.

Still replacing the liners next year...

[emgeekay]

Can owners of the Green/Yellow era buckets get access to the new boot boards? Where? How much?

I'm just a simple development guy and this is a marketing/sales deal. Due to the holidays it's difficult to get confirmation on this now, but I should be able to have an answer once business returns to normalcy.

[creaky fossil]

The fellatio wholehearted cockgobbling of Plum bindings was/is incredibly amusing. At least deserves honorable mention for lemming retard effect in full force

Awww, c'mon. There's no poseurs here... or at Blister. None.

I love the Trustafari and their belief that a deep trust fund = gear expertise.

[freak]

Dude, if they fit, they fit. I'm actually thinking about picking up a pair after my Zzeus's go, even after reading all this, based on the fact that I have the wide effed up flat foot that they seem to have been designed for.

how did you get your zzeus to fit your wide feet? zzeus feel as if they have half the volume of quadrants, totally different fit.

If you like the Methods, why wouldn't you like the Quads? Factors can usually be found damned cheap. Yes, the liners suck, but few stock liners don't, IMHO.

maybe because they are a different fit, and different boots as well?

I am on the BD boot team and worked extensively on the liners, and feel somewhat compelled to respond to this thread. For Fall 2012 we made a few changes, that may or may not be reflected in these posts, because some people may be commenting on the old (yellow and green) style vs the new (black and green) model. Some points:
• Yes, the shell is pretty high volume, and to address that for the 12/13 season we increased the thickness of the boot board by 3mm (to reduce the overall shell volume) and cored it out more to keep the weight the same and trap more air for additional insulation from the snow.
• We changed the liner construction to move away from the foam underfoot to a denser material (actually recycled pop bottle material) so that the skier’s weight doesn’t compact the foam underfoot and then drop the foot relative to the rest of the liner/shell. A slight difference in thickness here affects the overall volume significantly. Foam underfoot = quick packout
• We added in a flex zone in the achilles area for better walkability. In reading the comments about range of motion, we believe that though we could possibly get more rearward range for long travel across flats, the majority of time is spent going up hill for which we have a significant range of motion that most would agree is adequate. And the Alpine Overlap construction that we use benefits from both low resistance and an expected overlap flex that is appreciated.
• We used a foam vendor from Europe that gave us better insulating and compression ratings than not only our old foam but Intuition’s Ultralon as well. This foam compression set rating gives us less packout than other competing foams.
• We changed the materials to more abrasion-resistant and better-wicking materials (so it also dries out faster for multiple day use.)
• We did extensive fit trials and on-snow ski testing - both internally and with testers around the country - to make sure that the new liner (and using the same construction on the Prime, Slant, and Swift) fit better than the old boots.

Will the boot fit you perfectly? Hard to say; there’s a lot of variation in feet out there and different perceptions of what’s a “perfect” ski boot fit, and there are a lot of good AT boots on the market with different fits. Our liners are thermo-moldable, so if the fit is not perfect out of the box it can be made to fit with a good thermofit. Based on our comprehensive testing we feel confident that we improved the four boots’ fit significantly over the previous generation.

hey, thanks for responding!
the new liners do actually look better, havent used them (and wont use them anyway) but im sure they are better, nice for people which have feet which actually need a wide boot like hte quadrants...

freak~[&]

[Huskier]

how did you get your zzeus to fit your wide feet? zzeus feel as if they have half the volume of quadrants, totally different

Yeah, they're definitely not the right boot for my foot and took wayyyy too much work to fit right. I'm saying when it's new boot time, I'm strongly considering Quadrants because I now know I need that extra volume.

[Poz]

I just got some john deers this year, only a couple days on them. I tried a few different boots with the Maestrale RS at the top of my list. I just couldn't fit in this Scarpa, extremely tight toe and a bucket for the heal.

The Quadrants gave me way more space in the toes (though I still really need that area to pack out) and held my heal in place nicely. That said I have a monsterous big toe, narrow heal, very wide ball of my foot and pretty volumous overall. I could probably ski without skis on.

The liner is meh and will be replaced eventually. The tour motion is great, though I came from Denali XTs, and the down seems solid. I tossed in some powerwrap style Scarpa liners I have for shits and giggles and it definitely kills any decent walk mode. I'll likely get an Intuition Pro Tour eventually.

[emgeekay]

^^ Classy and brave of you to walk into the lion's den. Thanks for the info.



Can owners of the Green/Yellow era buckets get access to the new boot boards? Where? How much?

Black Diamond now has the new bootboards available; it took us a bit to get them live. They are at the bottom of this page:

http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com...ki/spare-parts

[Particle]

What's up you bunch of fucking beaters. Been too long since I dropped into Tech Talk, apparently.

So quickly: BD has the bootboards live now in the spare parts section (disclaimer: after working for backcountry.com for many years, I'm at BD now (and have been for almost 4 yrs). Here's the link - bootboards are at bottom of the page, just pick your size:
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com...ki/spare-parts

I have the John Deere variant of the Quadrant, and I have a narrow foot. For those with not huge wide feet, check this out. I normally ski a 28.5 shell - Full Tilts for alpine. I got the Quadrants to work shockingly well by dropping all the way to a 27.5 shell and stuffing a 28.5 liner into it. Kinda sucked for a few tours on the toes, but now its broken in nicely and pretty much kicks ass. FWIW I can't ski a Factor 28.5 in bounds, too much slop for my skinny foot - but the Quadrant with that setup feels almost like my real alpine boots. It's pretty dope.

[cliffhucker]

I just threw a pair of older liners from another boot in em and they really aren't that bad, sure are a hell of a lot better than touring in any tele boot, much less a full alpine, and they seem stiff enough for pretty much anything you'd need in the BC... that said I've never had another full AT boot but I'm happy with the $300 i paid for mine last year

[Hugh Conway]

What's up you bunch of fucking beaters. Been too long since I dropped into Tech Talk, apparently.

So quickly: BD has the bootboards live now in the spare parts section (disclaimer: after working for backcountry.com for many years, I'm at BD now (and have been for almost 4 yrs). Here's the link - bootboards are at bottom of the page, just pick your size:
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com...ki/spare-parts

I have the John Deere variant of the Quadrant, and I have a narrow foot. For those with not huge wide feet, check this out. I normally ski a 28.5 shell - Full Tilts for alpine. I got the Quadrants to work shockingly well by dropping all the way to a 27.5 shell and stuffing a 28.5 liner into it. Kinda sucked for a few tours on the toes, but now its broken in nicely and pretty much kicks ass. FWIW I can't ski a Factor 28.5 in bounds, too much slop for my skinny foot - but the Quadrant with that setup feels almost like my real alpine boots. It's pretty dope.

Have you now figured out how to spell the names of your sponsored athletes?

[angrysasquatch]

I have the John Deere variant of the Quadrant, and I have a narrow foot. For those with not huge wide feet, check this out. I normally ski a 28.5 shell - Full Tilts for alpine. I got the Quadrants to work shockingly well by dropping all the way to a 27.5 shell and stuffing a 28.5 liner into it. Kinda sucked for a few tours on the toes, but now its broken in nicely and pretty much kicks ass. FWIW I can't ski a Factor 28.5 in bounds, too much slop for my skinny foot - but the Quadrant with that setup feels almost like my real alpine boots. It's pretty dope.

Hmm, interesting. I also have the John Deeres and narrow feet. Alpine boots are 29.5, these are 29.0's. With the whole decimal sizing thing, is it basically the same fit already? If there's some way to improve it and not have to replace them next season, that would be rad.

Also, is there any way to increase the forward tilt of them? I think it would be just changing out the walk mode doodad (not adjustable), but I'm not sure.

[mdlorenz]

Remove the screws holding the walk/ski switch and then see the little arrow pointing to the +- at the top? Flip and reinstall switch...

[angrysasquatch]

Dang, it's already in the forward position. Need more forward tilt still.

[lepistoir]

For me,
They do not suck. They are also not great. They were an improvement over previous boots (have always only skied AT boots) and they were:

a little heavy, but lighter than my BD methods
a little soft, but stiffer than my Spirit 3s (and as stiff as the Methods)
a little lacking all around and still the best 4-buckle dedicated touring boot I have skied up till now.

No durability issues (except for liners: swapped them last year for Intuition Pro w/ stiff tongue, problem solved) until this year (year 4 on them, avg 40 days touring and also inbounds use) and I broke a buckle.

Stopped by Alpenglow to get replacement buckle for my BD Quadrants (older lemon+lime version; first ever issue besides crap stock liners now upgraded and fixed thanks to otto...what was I talking about?) Oh yeah!

Alpenglow gave me replacement buckle for free fifty free, which left me with $15 I had planned to spend on buckle available for snacky treats and p-tex. Replacing buckle was easy -most difficult part was removing old buckle rivets.

I would recommend you buy my used and repaired pair since I am moving on. Quality boot. not bad, not great, definitely got the job done.

Also, fit was right for my foot (wide with bunion, but low volume) once added superfeet and switched to intuitions. I'm not a Dynafit foot and Scarpas were often too high volume over the arch.

I'm 6'1" 195# and aggro, but not gnardical. Skied West Coast, Rockies from CO to MT and New Zealand and definitely touring biased.

My boot evolution:
Dynafit TLT 5
Scarpa Spirit 3
BD Method
BD Quadrant
next up: La Sportiva Spectre

[F.D.V.]

After five days with Intuition PW's I can very safely say that these are, for my feet, the best boots I ever owned!

[XXX-er]

or pw's are the best liner you have ever owned ?

how were tehy before the pw's?

[Jason4]

I'm going to throw in a twist...I splitboard on BD Primes since I'm part of the wide and low foot club. The BDs fit my midfoot better than anything else I've tried but I haven't had a chance to try Scarpa Rushes or La Sportiva Siderals. I'd like to find something lighter and softer if possible (think TLT5) that fits a BD foot. Any suggestions?

[patco21]

I think these boots are great after a few modifications are made:

-Intuition powerwrap liner (big change, it's high volume and my foot doesn't swim in the boot anymore)
-Booster Strap (bigger difference than I thought it would be, really locks the foot in)
-3 buckle swap as shown here: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-3-Buckle-swap
no more toe pinching, but need a special riveter.

After that, boot is just as stiff as many other alpine boots IMO, tours great and doesn't hurt my feet. If you can find a pair cheaply and you're a huge DIY nerd, why not?

[grinch]

sounds like some good mods in here. anyone looking for some of these on the cheap. I have a pair of 25.5 in good shape with a few ski edge scratches on the insides. soles look new. replaced inside rivets w canting allen head/t nuts. now$175obo

[userA]

Modern walk mode AT boots (e.g., Vulcan/Mercury/One, TLT5, Maestrale) render all other AT boots obsolete if you plan to actually tour.

OTOH, if you are looking for a heavyweight AT boot that fits like a tissue box and has an obsolete walk/tour mode and a history of breaking buckles, then the Quadrant might be the boot for you.

this is my trainer boot, much like my bicycle when i only took 1 training wheel off.
b

[grinch]

U need to train moar. Trade for rx's

[Meathelmet]

I think these boots are great after a few modifications are made:

-Intuition powerwrap liner
-Booster Strap (bigger difference than I thought it would be, really locks the foot in).

After that, boot is just as stiff as many other alpine boots IMO, tours great and doesn't hurt my feet. If you can find a pair cheaply and you're a huge DIY nerd, why not?

Quadrant : You either love it or hate it.
Or in other words : YOU EITHER FIT IN IT OR DONT!

The boot apparently has quite a peculiar shape and thus by desing, fits very few people.
I am a person that cant find fit in any other boots. Small 24.5 baby feet that are 103mm wide.
Most boots have skintight fit...even without a liner, as manufacturers scale down the width along with the length.
Quadrants dont, or at least scale most conservatively of all the boots I have tested.

Hell, I cant basically fit my foot in a TLT 5 without the liner!

Quadrants fit out of the box, with the liner+booster change they ski basically as well as my Nordica Speedmachine 14s and
have had absolutely zero problems touring day in, day out.

Why? Because they fit me.