Need help with Hayes Strokers

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Just did a proper bleed with the bleed kit following the instructional video from hayes on youtube. Now the pads wont grip hard enough when the lever is pulled all the way in. I tried to "pressurize" the system like you do on avids. Same deal. What am I doing wrong?

[rideit]

I'll see what I can find, WRG. they worked well when last on a bike. Have you asked over on empty beer?

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I searched over there and couldn't find anything. I'll post and see if anyone can help.

[300hp]

the hayes brakes work a bit differently, and sometimes you have to pump the lever 20-30 times to get em to firm up.

The way to prevent this during the bleed process is to "pressurize" them a bit like you said. Close off the port on the lever and give the bottle a squeeze while you close off the nipple on the caliper.

I find it really helpful to use the avid bleed blocks when I bleed out strokers. The avid juicy block fits perfectly in the normal stroker caliper.

If you are not already, use your hayes syringes on the strokers, it works really well for me, and is much easier to deal with than that stupid hayes squeeze bottle.

Hope that helps
H.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Good shit. I have mushy levers that won't return very fast and alot of rotor rub even after doing the business card shim trick during adjustment. Definitely didn't pump the levers enough. I do have some elixir bleed blocks, so maybe those will work.

[forty]

i had stiction for a while but got some stroker carbons to feel pretty good after a thorough cleaning and bleed
did you clean the pots during the bleed?
is it mush before the brakes contact the rotor? after? solid feeling ever?
they use bladders so it takes some force to get them filled, make sure you have solid connections and really pressurize them
after that i squeezed the pads all the way closed and then pry them apart again, again do the card trick and i always did a serious pump with the cards in and made them set well, then remove and you should have a perfectly adjusted setup for lever reach and no drag
i also found it easier to bleed them off the bike and really be able to flip them over and tap all the air out
good luck, i had issues until i got the fittings real tight, got the pads to move freely, and got all the air out, but after some elbow grease they were pretty damn nice brakes imo

[300hp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfycdRfT8RQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUkwxR2yWg

I basically combine these two methods (pressure+syringe) and it works really well for me.

also, when you are pushing fluid thru the system, give the caliper bodies and the brake lever bodies a few good raps with a wrench or something. I had some air pockets i couldn't get rid of, but the ol' beat that shit out approach worked nicely.

H

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

So I fooled around with everything again today. The rear caliper had one piston that was stuck so I held the moving one in with pliers and pumped the lever until the stuck one popped out. Cleaned the piston with isopropyl and lubed with a touch of brake fluid. I did this about 3 times and they moved a bit better, but not much. Did a full re-bleed with syringes and pumped the lever 30ish times. Got good pressure and no mush this time, but there is still rub because the pistons won't retract all the way on their own.

Front brake retracts well, but the pistons on come out on an angle so the pads only contact the rotor on an edge of each pad. AKA they grip like shit and will kill the rotors/pads this way. I also cleaned and lubed the pistons. Still no dice.

Gonna buy some rebuild kits and start from square one.

[rideit]

Damn. If you need, I can get some new rebuild parts to you, but I probably am not doing an order for a couple of weeks. I'll let you know.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Don't worry about it man. I think my brother in law has some extra Elixir XOs that he is gonna hook me up with.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Getting rid of Hayes is a good start. Wish I could.
No joke: I was informed that there was a recall out on some of their return springs. This makes the levers feel mushy because they are not being pushed back. The rebuild kit might actually be covered under warranty.

[300hp]

The Hayes are a fine brake, and avids are not without their share of problems. FWIW, someone from the hayes team told me that the ratio on the old and new levers and calipers is the same, meaning if you have a decent set of stroker levers (you do) you could throw a new caliper from an old, working brake (hayes 9) on there and have a hybrid backup set. Conversely, you could upgrade as well. The stroker ace has the same lever as the normal strokers, so you could snag a set of the ace calipers and throw them on your levers. You can play around a bit for sure.

If you are riding all winter long (sounds like you have bike fever now, so you probably will) don't discount a really well set up pair of mechanical BB7s. I know people say all kinds of shit about them and how they're too gnar for mechanical brakes and they suck and whatever, but mine have worked perfectly, even after being cased in a frozen mud/slush slurpee a few days a week all last winter.

Set em up with Odyssey full length linear slic BMX cable. It's cheap, works really well, and doesn't get mushy. Awesome brake response. Take a little piece of heat shrink tubing and put it over teh exposed section where the cable bolts down, and you've got brakes that will get you thru the winter without worry.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Word 300hp. I am more familiar with avids having messed with the elixir 5s a bunch. Its mostly the fact that I spent all my money already on this build, so free or cheap elixirs that I know how to work on seems like the best bet now. I also like the elixir levers more than the hayes ones.

Mechanical in the winter seems like a good idea, but I had zero issues last winter with hydraulics down to 20 degrees. (famous last words)

[rideit]

Getting rid of Hayes is a good start. Wish I could.
No joke: I was informed that there was a recall out on some of their return springs. This makes the levers feel mushy because they are not being pushed back. The rebuild kit might actually be covered under warranty.

The brakes you have are not the recalled (spring return) ones.

[300hp]

yeah, I run hydros and normal shifters all year too. I'm back in the midwest now, so good trails are out my door, and good skiing is not.....so I ride all winter. my juicy's hav been just fine in the 10 degree range, I don't feel like riding much after that. You'll be fine too.

when you're bored you can mess with those hayes and get em to work, then throw em in the truck for when one of your friends breaks a brake and whines about it. I keep a mech brake and lever, tire, and a derailleur in the wagon because of how often it seems to happen.

[lincolnturns]

No joke, and I understand your trying to stay on a budget as not everyone can just throw down for new bits when shit doesn't work, BUT, a buddy of mine and I both had Strokers within the last 2 years. Sent both pairs back to Hayes for full rebuilds and new lines/bleed from factory. Even after the rebuild they were just garbage. Never had any real power, modulation and the lever feel was horrid. I sold em off easy enough and jumped into some very used SLX brakes that opened my eyes quickly to how terrible the Hayes products have become. These were the Stroker Gram carbon levers etc. Hope you can hook those XOs up or find another cheap alternative to get through the winter.