Old Basement Flooding

[AdironRider]

Looking at an old (200+ years) Greek Revival house that has been moved and converted into rental properties. Sometime in the 50's the entire house was moved 50 yards back on the property and placed on a new (at the time) concrete block foundation.

Every spring this basement floods pretty badly. 6" standing water over about 1500 sq ft, so its more than just a puddle. I assume this will take more than just a couple coats of waterproof paint unfortunately.

Looking at my options as to what it will take to fix this. So far it seems worst case scenario is to place drains all along the interior perimiter of the foundation that drain to the sump pump. This does not sound cheap, nor easy, but if I do buy this property it will need to be taken care of.

Anyone tackle this kind of project before and how did you go about it?

Edit: There are also these guys, which seems like it would involve less jackhammering and could be done most likely by myself.
http://www.sanitred.com/BasementWaterproofing.htm

[Section ThirtyOne]

I'm not going to pretend that I am an engineer, but the thought of having 6" of water in the basement of a house every year really scares me. Mold would be a definite issue, would it not? How long does this water stay there for?

[concretejungle]

I'm not going to pretend that I am an engineer, but the thought of having 6" of water in the basement of a house every year really scares me. Mold would be a definite issue, would it not? How long does this water stay there for?

I'd steer way clear of this but I don't know shit other than houses with problems are ofter more trouble than they're worth.

That said french drain?

[AdironRider]

I'm not going to pretend that I am an engineer, but the thought of having 6" of water in the basement of a house every year really scares me. Mold would be a definite issue, would it not? How long does this water stay there for?

There is currently a sump pump which gets rid of it over the course of a week or so.

Having grown up in the area, this is really not that uncommon for a centuries old house in the area.

Mold is not an issue currently. Given that the basement has flooded for most of recent history, there is nothing down there but concrete and an oil tank.

[AdironRider]

I'd steer way clear of this but I don't know shit other than houses with problems are ofter more trouble than they're worth.

That said french drain?

French drain could be an option but the house is in an established area and I dont see any of that type of work being feasible outside of the foundation, well at least cheaply (in this scenario the driveways on both sides of the property would have to be torn up, plus there are some interesting terrain features that lead me to believe this will be difficult and expensive - hence my interior drain thoughts)

I suppose I should clarify that this space doesnt need to become liveable space, just drier so bikes and stuff can be stored down there and maybe a small workbench for small projects.

[~mikey b]

fill it with cement and forget about it

relocate oil tank

[tgray]

So where is the water coming from ?
are rain gutters dumping water next to foundation, high water table?, does the contour and grade of the lot direct water runoff toward the house or away? these are things to address before working under the house.

[Buster Highmen]

So where is the water coming from ?
are rain gutters dumping water next to foundation, high water table?, does the contour and grade of the lot direct water runoff toward the house or away? these are things to address before working under the house.

This is primary^^^^.
If a french drain is not feasible, consider an exterior sump pump placed in a basin below the basement grade on the side from which the water is coming.
An interior sump system may not work unless the basement grade is amenable (either uniformly slanted or at least absent of any kind of dips or hollows.

[OSECS]

The interior French drains would be a part of my plan potentially to deal with water that makes its way in. Is there no way to excavate the exterior and deal with french drains and water proofing there ? I saw the entry about driveways on both sides. Are there gutters ? Is the water getting away from the house or ponding against it ?

[DeathVan]

Sometimes the best option is to go with what you've got.

Indoor swimming pool?


-j/k Good Luck, I hope you find an easy and doable solution that doesn't break the bank or the deal.

Pics of the place?

[AdironRider]

The interior French drains would be a part of my plan potentially to deal with water that makes its way in. Is there no way to excavate the exterior and deal with french drains and water proofing there ? I saw the entry about driveways on both sides. Are there gutters ? Is the water getting away from the house or ponding against it ?

No gutters, gravel around the house for about a foot or so. No obvious pools of water gathering, but this is November and the problem occurs in the spring. There is a gravel parking area in the back corner of the house that Im told pools with water in the spring as well, but its on the downhill side of the house. The house is located atop a hill, so I imagine its not a water table problem, but Im just guessing.

There are noticable cracks in the basement, so Im hoping these are the problems and can patch then fix. Do want to go the extra mile first though and not have to go back in later.

[OSECS]

No gutters, gravel around the house for about a foot or so. No obvious pools of water gathering, but this is November and the problem occurs in the spring. There is a gravel parking area in the back corner of the house that Im told pools with water in the spring as well, but its on the downhill side of the house. The house is located atop a hill, so I imagine its not a water table problem, but Im just guessing.

There are noticable cracks in the basement, so Im hoping these are the problems and can patch then fix. Do want to go the extra mile first though and not have to go back in later.

Gutters are an absolute must on a home with a basement. You simply cannot control the rain water at the house foundation without them or some other fool proof rain water management system.

You could have a seasonal water table issue ?? Just a wild assed guess.

Also those noticeable cracks are definitely letting water gain access. and patching from the inside probably won't take care of the problem. Any way to determine if the exterior basement wall surface was waterproofed ? Digging exploratory holes a foot or so down should answer that question quickly.

B-Dry is a company that handles leaky basement issues around here. I think they're a national company ? Might be worth a call to them for an estimate/ diagnosis.

[AdironRider]

From what I gather/am told, there is no exterior waterproofing done on the foundation. If there was, it was applied at a minimum, 30 years ago before the current owners moved in.

[OSECS]

From what I gather/am told, there is no exterior waterproofing done on the foundation. If there was, it was applied at a minimum, 30 years ago before the current owners moved in.

That's strike 2 right there. You have to control the water before it gets to the wall.

[AdironRider]

Well hindsight is always 20/20 right.

I think there is some form of drainage built somewhere in relation to the foundation, as the problem does eventually solve itself, as is only an issue during spring meltoff periods. From what I gather the issue does not become apparent during heavy rain, etc, outside of times where the whole town is flooded anyways.

Ultimately, this is not a make it or break it issue for me as I would be using the property as 4 independent rental units and it cash flows pretty well, but this is probably issue number one I would like to take care of in terms of bringing the house back up to par / adding value. Its already in the best school system in the state, new roof, new electrical, new natural gas furnace/heat system. This is pretty much the last major item on the list outside of updating the iterior, and the current owners passed on and it now resides in a trust which has no inclination of putting any more money in the place.

I could really care less if this basement doesnt get used, but I do know that I will ultimately fix it if I do buy. Gutters sound like a good idea, but given that it doesnt seem to be a rain problem and more saturated ground problem not sure how much help they would be for their price. Would really jack up the look of the place as well IMO, but being a rental I can get over that pretty quickly.

[OSECS]

Well hindsight is always 20/20 right.

I think there is some form of drainage built somewhere in relation to the foundation, as the problem does eventually solve itself, as is only an issue during spring meltoff periods. From what I gather the issue does not become apparent during heavy rain, etc, outside of times where the whole town is flooded anyways.

Ultimately, this is not a make it or break it issue for me as I would be using the property as 4 independent rental units and it cash flows pretty well, but this is probably issue number one I would like to take care of in terms of bringing the house back up to par / adding value. Its already in the best school system in the state, new roof, new electrical, new natural gas furnace/heat system. This is pretty much the last major item on the list outside of updating the iterior, and the current owners passed on and it now resides in a trust which has no inclination of putting any more money in the place.

I could really care less if this basement doesnt get used, but I do know that I will ultimately fix it if I do buy. Gutters sound like a good idea, but given that it doesnt seem to be a rain problem and more saturated ground problem not sure how much help they would be for their price. Would really jack up the look of the place as well IMO, but being a rental I can get over that pretty quickly.

Sounds like you've done yer homework. And yeah, like I said the issue can be (looks like anyway) seasonal based on a water table issue or even an unknown spring that pulses at this time of year. Obviously it's not going to get any less expensive to fix.

[rmnpsplitter]

Sounds like you've done yer homework. And yeah, like I said the issue can be (looks like anyway) seasonal based on a water table issue or even an unknown spring that pulses at this time of year. Obviously it's not going to get any less expensive to fix.

Agreed, wont be an easy or cheap fix at all if its seasonal water table/spring. From the sounds of it this is the problem (if it doesn't flood during large storms that's the key indicator in my eyes). Water proofing the exterior as well as the floor might be the only option. Sump pump is a good idea as well but is a temp solution IMO. If you want to do it right I'd say rent a digger and expose the entire foundation, water proof and backfill with well draining soils and perimeter drain that day lights away from the house. 4" filter wrapped perf pipe ought to do the trick.

[AdironRider]

Agreed, wont be an easy or cheap fix at all if its seasonal water table/spring. From the sounds of it this is the problem (if it doesn't flood during large storms that's the key indicator in my eyes). Water proofing the exterior as well as the floor might be the only option. Sump pump is a good idea as well but is a temp solution IMO. If you want to do it right I'd say rent a digger and expose the entire foundation, water proof and backfill with well draining soils and perimeter drain that day lights away from the house. 4" filter wrapped perf pipe ought to do the trick.

Good to know. To be fair, Im going off of what the current owners are telling me, and luckily I know them from growing up so hopefully arent just blowing sand up my ass. That being said, it could potentially flood during times of heavy rain, regardless of what Im told.

Starting to think it might not be worth it unless I went whole hog as described above. Truth be told, of my other rentals, this one is probably the best house wise and I wouldnt put it past me to move in in a decade or so when the eventual kids are in school. If thats the case, Id be fixing it as described above.

[Obstruction]

I've fought this battle with my 130 year old New England house and improving the gutters and drainage away from the foundation made a huge difference.

This house is on fairly high ground and there are no underground streams or anything like that.

The first year we moved in we had a "100 year" storm and the water got up about 9 inches. I was freaking out because I had just put in a new furnace. (Not much else down there, the place is more dungeon than cellar.) So any way for 36 hours I was doing the sorcerer's apprentice thing hauling buckets up and dumping them finally we got pumped out and life was back to normal. I got ahold of a contractor and put in a sump pump which kept the water from getting stupid deep the next time it rained really hard, but it still came in.

So we re-guttered the whole place and got extensions to aid the flow away from the foundation and that made a huge difference. Finally I spent a couple of days with the wheelbarrow and a pile of loam building up the grade around the foundation.

Now we get a couple of puddles when the monsoon comes but the sump pump rarely even kicks on.

[XXX-er]

No gutters, gravel around the house for about a foot or so. No obvious pools of water gathering, but this is November and the problem occurs in the spring. There is a gravel parking area in the back corner of the house that Im told pools with water in the spring as well, but its on the downhill side of the house. The house is located atop a hill, so I imagine its not a water table problem, but Im just guessing.

There are noticable cracks in the basement, so Im hoping these are the problems and can patch then fix. Do want to go the extra mile first though and not have to go back in later.

due to shady railway speculation way back in the day my town was built on a swamp instead of a better site down the railway line and houses built on a hill topped in clay flood all the time, almost every house has a hole in the floor about the size of a 5 gallon pail going about 2 ft deep into the soil under the house in which sits the sump pump some houses have 2 pumps and a pump with battery back up is a good idea in some area's

you definatley want rain gutters, I have 30ft pieces of plastic drain pipe sitting on top of the lawn that take water away from the foundation

http://www.crackmasterconcrete.com/

In my last house I had a foundation crack that was fixed by the crackmaster ...wierd name eh

[AdironRider]

I've fought this battle with my 130 year old New England house and improving the gutters and drainage away from the foundation made a huge difference.

This house is on fairly high ground and there are no underground streams or anything like that.

The first year we moved in we had a "100 year" storm and the water got up about 9 inches. I was freaking out because I had just put in a new furnace. (Not much else down there, the place is more dungeon than cellar.) So any way for 36 hours I was doing the sorcerer's apprentice thing hauling buckets up and dumping them finally we got pumped out and life was back to normal. I got ahold of a contractor and put in a sump pump which kept the water from getting stupid deep the next time it rained really hard, but it still came in.

So we re-guttered the whole place and got extensions to aid the flow away from the foundation and that made a huge difference. Finally I spent a couple of days with the wheelbarrow and a pile of loam building up the grade around the foundation.

Now we get a couple of puddles when the monsoon comes but the sump pump rarely even kicks on.

This seems like the perfect descriptor of the place Im dealing with. Old NE dungeon is an apt descriptor. Although, this place already has a sump pump/pit that it resides in.

I'll do some more digging with the current owners to see if I can come to more of a firm conclusion if this is a rain issue as well.