Who is cutting wood?

**cat in january** · 10-27-2014, 04:14 PM

All that is if the oak is good and dry. Oak takes a good 2 years to dry. In my experience no other New England hardwood dries slower. I get a heck of a lot more red oak than white oak.

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2014, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

Buy pellets by the ton, they're $230/ton at Big R today. Unless they're on sale for $199. Which is either way less than your $288. Which is not an accurate number. Red Oak (the kind you get in Colorado) is 21 million BTU/cord, not 29. And you changed your tune from $800/cord to $750/1.3 cords to make your numbers better. At $800/cord, it's double the cost/BTU of pellets. At $750/1.3 or $576/cord, it's about 50% more for the oak.

But if your math justifies your decision, have at it.

Well, if I could buy pellets tax free, maybe I'd factor that into my decision. And they sell a bunch of different types of oak in CO. "The kind you get in Colorado"... You're hysterical.

**~mikey b** · 10-27-2014, 04:27 PM

That's why I bought a $100 cord from a bro this fall. The stuff I cut last year isn't ready. I can always stay ahead on pine/cedar/fir but I need to buy oak/almond here and there.

**grrrr** · 10-27-2014, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Well, if I could buy pellets tax free, maybe I'd factor that into my decision. And they sell a bunch of different types of oak in CO. "The kind you get in Colorado"... You're hysterical.

Red Oak (or more correctly Gambel Oak) is the only kind that grows in Colorado. But if they're shipping you oak from Maine, maybe that's why you pay $800. Or why your talking sounds a lot like flatulence.

**bodywhomper** · 10-27-2014, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

I forget what we paid for propane this year... $2.30/gallon or so.

dang. by me in sierra western slope, it was between $1.55 to $1.89/gallon this summer and so far this fall.... and peeps complain that's high compared to recent past.

**~mikey b** · 10-27-2014, 04:43 PM

'bout the same in Sonora as Grass Valley. Seems about average compared to last few years.

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2014, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

Red Oak is the only kind that grows in Colorado.

And if you lived around here, you'd know that oak firewood is expensive because they truck it in from places where you can actually grow dense hard wood... like the kind your head is made out of.

**grrrr** · 10-27-2014, 04:49 PM

I do "live around here". And the oak is not being shipped from the east coast.

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2014, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

I do "live around here". And the oak is not being shipped from the east coast.

Most of it comes from Missouri. And yes, white oak is native to Missouri.

**bodywhomper** · 10-27-2014, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by telemike

That's why I bought a $100 cord from a bro this fall. The stuff I cut last year isn't ready. I can always stay ahead on pine/cedar/fir but I need to buy oak/almond here and there.

$100. that's great! i could use a cord of seasoned hardwood for something less than $250. we're pretty short of hardwood at my place for this winter. we should be set in a few years for a season or two. i have a little bit of split manzanita that is stacked and covered, and a couple dead manzanita sitting around the property (not sure about the moisture content) that i need to make a priority.

**grrrr** · 10-27-2014, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Most of it comes from Missouri. And yes, white oak is native to Missouri.

So, you're buying oak trucked to you from Missouri instead of buying Colorado oak because you get 29m BTU/cord instead of 21m BTU/cord? Good decision.

**cat in january** · 10-27-2014, 05:19 PM

Perhaps we have found the root of why the wood costs $800/cord

**bodywhomper** · 10-27-2014, 05:23 PM

^^nice pun

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2014, 05:25 PM

Actually no. I am buying the wood that is more dense and burns long enough to heat the house overnight. The btu output is secondary. Have you not been following along here?

**grrrr** · 10-27-2014, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Actually no. I am buying the wood that is more dense and burns long enough to heat the house overnight. The btu output is secondary. Have you not been following along here?

I have. You seem dumber and dumber as it goes along.

I put 8 cords up this year for a total outlay of about $50. Won't stay burning all night, but that's why I have a pellet stove in the basement. I'll be $500 ahead of you when its said and done.

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2014, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

I have. You seem dumber and dumber as it goes along.

I put 8 cords up this year for a total outlay of about $50. Won't stay burning all night, but that's why I have a pellet stove in the basement. I'll be $500 ahead of you when its said and done.

You're following along, but you missed the whole discussion about the real total costs? Figures I guess. Maybe you can invest that $500 in some reading lessons. Or maybe some pellets for your pellet stove.

**grrrr** · 10-27-2014, 05:40 PM

Oh I've been reading just fine. Like when you posted this:

"There are btu/cord charts easily found online. Off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you what the numbers are, but the midwestern hardwood doesn't seem very heavy or dense compared to what we used to have back home."

**~mikey b** · 10-27-2014, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by bodywhomper

$100. that's great! i could use a cord of seasoned hardwood for something less than $250. we're pretty short of hardwood at my place for this winter. we should be set in a few years for a season or two. i have a little bit of split manzanita that is stacked and covered, and a couple dead manzanita sitting around the property (not sure about the moisture content) that i need to make a priority.

Do you have a saw and a truck? I know of some cheep or maybe free seasoned oak up in Colfax. I won't be able to get to it any time soon and my buddy wants it gone. He might have already made arrangements, but it might still be available.

Oh, I almost forgot......

Are you allergic to poison oak?

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2014, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

Oh I've been reading just fine. Like when you posted this:

"There are btu/cord charts easily found online. Off the top of my head, I couldn't tell you what the numbers are, but the midwestern hardwood doesn't seem very heavy or dense compared to what we used to have back home."

Don't know if that's actually true or not, but the oak from MO doesn't seem as heavy and dense as what we had back home... What does that have to do with anything?

**~mikey b** · 10-27-2014, 05:48 PM

He's equating weight/density to btu. Which you seemed to be implying too. And you seemed to say that MO wood had less weight/density and subsequently less btu. Blah blah blah.

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2014, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by telemike

He's equating weight/density to btu. Which you seemed to be implying too. And you seemed to say that MO wood had less weight/density and subsequently less btu. Blah blah blah.

Certainly didn't mean to imply that... I think red oak and lodgepole pine have about the same BTU rating, but the oak certainly burns a lot longer than the pine. Burn time and BTUs are two pretty different things. Related at some point I'm sure, but where exactly, I couldn't tell you. And I handle more wood in a season here than I did in a decade back home, so my recollection of it is probably not that accurate.

**grrrr** · 10-27-2014, 05:58 PM

Maybe you're just still full of shit.

You are claiming $288/ton, when the company you bought it from prices it at $380/ton.

You're claiming it is from MO:

"Thanks for asking about firewood. It is illegal to remove any hardwood firewood from the state of Missouri due to the presence of both state laws and the federal emerald ash borer quarantine, with a very specific exception for hardwood firewood that has been heat treated and packaged at a federally certified commercial kiln facility. My guess is that you are asking about private firewood- so the answer is definitely that you cannot legally move oak firewood from Missouri to Colorado. There is no permit that would make bringing untreated (regular, not commercially heat treated) oak firewood from Missouri to Colorado OK."

But it makes total sense that you would be buying specially treated firewood from MO instead of locally available oak. Which you claim is white oak, and you buy it because it's hard and dense, but then say it's not as hard and dense as the oak you used to buy...which was white oak. If you absolutely have to have the MO oak, more power to you. Just don't claim it's comparable to pellet prices.

BTW, you don't need to put up a wind turbine to run a pellet stove at night if you're off the grid. They have very good 12v systems.

**bodywhomper** · 10-27-2014, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by telemike

Do you have a saw and a truck? I know of some cheep or maybe free seasoned oak up in Colfax. I won't be able to get to it any time soon and my buddy wants it gone. He might have already made arrangements, but it might still be available.

Oh, I almost forgot......

Are you allergic to poison oak?

yes, i'm allergic' to poison oak! also, no truck but yes saw. I could probably work something out regarding a 3/4 ton truck with a friend, making this a great opportunity (thanks!), but the PO thing sounds like it would kill the deal. thoughts?

**stfu&gbtw** · 10-27-2014, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

Maybe you're just still full of shit.

You are claiming $288/ton, when the company you bought it from prices it at $380/ton.

You're claiming it is from MO:

"Thanks for asking about firewood. It is illegal to remove any hardwood firewood from the state of Missouri due to the presence of both state laws and the federal emerald ash borer quarantine, with a very specific exception for hardwood firewood that has been heat treated and packaged at a federally certified commercial kiln facility. My guess is that you are asking about private firewood- so the answer is definitely that you cannot legally move oak firewood from Missouri to Colorado. There is no permit that would make bringing untreated (regular, not commercially heat treated) oak firewood from Missouri to Colorado OK."

But it makes total sense that you would be buying specially treated firewood from MO instead of locally available oak. Which you claim is white oak, and you buy it because it's hard and dense, but then say it's not as hard and dense as the oak you used to buy...which was white oak. If you absolutely have to have the MO oak, more power to you. Just don't claim it's comparable to pellet prices.

BTW, you don't need to put up a wind turbine to run a pellet stove at night if you're off the grid. They have very good 12v systems.

You found google! You're the man. I actually recall they charged me $345/ton, but I don't have the ticket in front of me. I was just trying to work through the math. But you can believe what you want. Or you can believe one blog post from dontmovefirewood.org. But when you're confronted with making the decision and get to live with it for several years, you'll come to your own conclusions. Pellets are not vastly cheaper than oak in my situation, not the least of which because I don't have to plan for the electrical. Or how to keep the house warm when the electrical has failed for one reason or another. And sure, you don't need a wind turbine, but you need enough electricity to run the stove when you have a <5 hour sun day, and many people do that by having a turbine. You have all the confidence of someone who doesn't actually have to do what you're talking about. You may think I'm full of shit, but I'm the one actually doing it. You're just pounding on your keyboard.

Edit: go check at the CO Dept. of Agriculture. It's completely legal to transport bulk firewood to colorado. It needs to be "specially treated" by letting it sit somewhere for 2 years.

Do you work for a wood pellet industry group or something?