Tahoe Weather, Conditions, Stoke, and What's Up Thread...

**Nuthon** · 01-03-2013, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by MTT

A Maggot? I was a bit concerned

http://www.laketahoenews.net/2013/01...ho-lakes-area/

Don't think he is a maggot, but a good friend. He is a good skier & knows his bc stuff. Sucks about his knee.

Sent from my DROID4 using TGR Forums

**SchralphMacchio** · 01-03-2013, 10:17 AM

Isn't there some kind of three-fifths rule for Northstar, Boreal, DSR, and Homewood, or did we amend that one a few years back?

**The Dad** · 01-03-2013, 11:14 AM

Ski on Summit, no wait, at 9:10.

**TahoeJ** · 01-03-2013, 11:32 AM

I don't think you can call it cold until you at least hit single digits. And as a native Californian, I agree we are total pussies. It'll be 25 degrees (at higher elevations in the snow) and some of my friends will be complaining about how cold it is.

**Old_Skool_Style** · 01-03-2013, 12:25 PM

Mag rally @ kwood tomorrow! well, me. Shout out if you see me (orange Oakley top, tan Oakley pants, white smith helmet), prob the only Asian bearded dude steezer on the mtn!

Word!

**Ottime** · 01-03-2013, 03:02 PM

Well that was fun. Powder is nice. Wish it had lasted longer. Or I had made one last trip up. Root huck is now calling my name.

**powdork** · 01-03-2013, 05:18 PM

you gotta be somewhere or something?

**Ottime** · 01-03-2013, 07:21 PM

Tomorrow is family day, so yeah, my wife thinks so. Maybe it is for my own good. Might be able to make time for a quick on Saturday morning. But it would need to be early.

**powdork** · 01-03-2013, 08:15 PM

there's always time for DP before family day. there were no tracks at the golf course

**213** · 01-03-2013, 09:00 PM

Spirit Caveman ponders perhaps the penultimate personal precipice: 'Should we get JOBS or ski 5900 vertical feet of blower pow straight off the top down the center couloir to the Carson Valley floor?'

Skin track is in from the valley flats...go get it!

**Sierra Cement** · 01-03-2013, 10:42 PM

Silly caveman - the answer is Both!

**xtrmjoe** · 01-03-2013, 11:45 PM

The surface hoar sure skied well today, was just like a couple inches of fresh. Skiing the sierras my whole life never seen so much of it.

Next storm cycle will be interesting if it does not get warm enough to melt down.

**powdork** · 01-04-2013, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by LongShortLong

And yes, pic from the other night. Powdork wouldn't let me sleep. Dunno if he got any pics, it was dark. I heard about an SMS from you regarding dawn patrol, but I was rather spent by then. And, I'm a working stiff till Friday night.

i do have a few, but between us we had no cameras. had to use a headlamp/helmet cam combo from up close and then get a framegrab. didn't work out so well.
here's what we did, taken today

here's kfactor off some granite in the moonlight

and longshortlong getting short

sucks cuz all day long i was thinking about how to set up the moonlit shots, then left the sd card in the pc.

**dookeyXXX** · 01-04-2013, 08:56 AM

rumor on the street was it hit between -6 and -8 yesterday morning before the sun came up. Buddy of mine in T/D had his pipes freeze solid.

that said, once the sun came out it was pretty damn bueno and bluebird.

at least the cold overnight temps are keeping the snow solid as opposed to last season when it would warm up to mid-50 apres storm cycles.

**gimpy** · 01-04-2013, 09:46 AM

yeah 213!!! the time is now. we were on the 2nd highpoint to your north at the end of porcupine w/ an assist from raider nation. as good as it gets. back for more today and then slog up somethin different from the bottom tomorrow.

the echo avy shitshow has been beat to death but i just gotta report what i heard yesterday. that crew consisted of a father and his wife and 2 sons and the father was the one that got buried. kinda explains alot i think

**Ottime** · 01-04-2013, 09:48 AM

Okay, so I guess that is chilly. Started on the skin track at 7700' at 9am and 10F. Climbed up 150' and it must have been 30F. Skied down the the Gulch. It was warm on top of the cliffs and damn cold at the base. Inversions are in place.

And with a little luck KW might actually get their rope tow open today.

**TheAfterBangBus** · 01-04-2013, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by powdork

there's always time for DP before family day....

Rocking the DP is usually my job after I steeze out in the park.

**jfost** · 01-04-2013, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by gimpy

...that crew consisted of a father and his wife and 2 sons and the father was the one that got buried. kinda explains alot i think

haha, the guy that did nothing was the younger son!!! that explains everything, but at least he had the presence of mind to say "you don't need the beacon, he's right there..."

hahahhaha.

**dhklauer** · 01-04-2013, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by jfost

haha, the guy that did nothing was the younger son!!! that explains everything, but at least he had the presence of mind to say "you don't need the beacon, he's right there..."

hahahhaha.

Went back on SAC to watch the shit show again........and yes, it's been beat to death. Here's a response from the party involved (posted below the incident report).

"I know that our party, the party involved in the December 29th incident on Echo Peak, made numerous mistakes. I chose to make the helmet cam video available to Sierra Avalanche Center so that others could learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. As the leader of the party, I take full credit for all of the mistakes and want to document what I've learned from them.

The first mistake was taking an inexperienced, ill-equipped group into the backcountry. Every member of the party should have been carrying a beacon, probe, and shovel. Additionally every member of the party should have been trained in avalanche safety. We only had two complete kits among our party of five, carried by the female skier in the video and by me, the skier who was caught in the slide. The other three members of the party were complete novices in the backcountry, able to ski black diamonds at a resort, but with no experience out of bounds. As the party leader, I should never have taken the group up Echo Peak, but I let the party's excitement about the day sway my decision. I made a bad decision.

The second mistake I made was allowing the excitement in the group to override sound decision making. Two of the inexperienced members of the party had never summited Echo. Safety and snow pack conditions dictated turning the group around at tree line and descending the ridge crest. However, I let emotion make the decision and allowed the party to continue above tree line to the summit. This decision required descending the slope directly above the ridge terminus. A slope that I knew was prone to sliding under the right circumstances, and having kept abreast of conditions, I knew conditions were conducive to an an avalanche. Again, I made a bad decision.

We skied one at a time from the crest to a safe zone in the trees at the start of the ridge proper, but I made my third mistake by choosing to ski a line slightly skier's left of the safest line to the meeting point in the trees. The female skier in the group asked that I not ski that line, but I let my emotions once again get the better of me. The several turns in untracked snow on a 45 degree slope were just too tempting. My intentions were to ski to skier's left of the large rocks where the slide released from, then veer hard to skier's right and meet the party on the ridge. I knew that the slope was convex. I knew that there was a rock band below my intended route. My thoughts were, "I've skied this line before. It's only a few turns." I made a very bad decision. Fortunately I have been able to kick myself repeatedly for it.

Once the slope let go, I was helpless. Everything I'd ever heard, read, or talked about went through my mind. Stay on top. Get your feet downhill. Backstroke. Remember to create an air pocket when the slide slows. Punch a hand towards the sky. The truth is that I was at the mercy of the snow. I went over the rock step head first on my back. Fortunately, I didn't crater on impact and end up buried by the rest of the snow as it came over the edge. Instead, I was rag dolled out of my crater and ended up somehow close to the surface. I was able to punch one fist upward as the slide slowed, but otherwise was completely unable to move. Everything was black and the urge to panic was overwhelming. After repeatedly telling myself to calm down, I was able to clear an airway with my free hand. Then all I could do was wait. I was very lucky.

Much has been made on various forums about the way that the skier with the helmet cam handled the rescue. He has been flamed for taking his gloves off, for telling the female skier with the beacon to take her time in transitioning the gear to him, for not putting the handle in the shovel, ad infinitum. The truth is, I am proud of the way he, a novice at avalanche rescue, handled the situation. He knew that the female skier was panicking and had to keep her calm. He knew that the whole party shouldn't descend to the burial site. He left two people on the ridge to watch the hangfire. Then he descended to the burial site with a partner, one at a time, in a controlled manner. In debriefing after the incident, we discussed what he could have done differently. It goes without saying that he should have left his gloves on. Other than that, there are two possible scenarios. First scenario:Once the skier in the black jacket had located my glove above the debris, the one unburied probe and beacon should have been left on the ridge. That way a beacon/probe search could have been initiated in the case of a secondary avalanche burying the rescue party. Second scenario: My glove was located above the debris, but what if my hand wasn't in it? Seen from 100 meters away, it was impossible to tell. If the beacon and probe were left on the ridge, that would have led to additional delays in getting the rescue gear to the burial and would have put one more skier in the path of a secondary release. As for the unassembled shovel, I have to take credit for that mistake. I should have made sure that the entire party knew where the rescue gear was located and how to assemble it before ever leaving the trailhead. Finally, my rescuer didn't relinquish shoveling duties to his partner once his hands started to freeze. He could have either taken the time to get gloves on his wet hands, or asked the skier in the black jacket to continue digging while he warmed his hands.

I'm sure that there are many more lessons to learn from this incident. That is the reason that I chose to let Sierra Avalanche Center make the video public. My hope was that I would receive constructive criticism and maybe force other people to review their decisions and the process by which they make those decisions. I knew that we would be flamed for our mistakes, but I'll take the flames if my mistakes will help keep others safe. My hope also is that all of the flaming does not discourage others from making public their mistakes, so that we, the backcountry community, can learn from each other. We all make mistakes, some of us more than others, I am sure, but we all make mistakes. I've watched countless avalanche videos and thought, "What an idiot!" "Why'd the dude do that?" or "That guy is completely clueless." Guess this time I'm the idiot and the clueless one. Hopefully, because I chose to share this video, you won't be the clueless one if or when things go wrong."

**AKbruin** · 01-04-2013, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by dhklauer

Went back on SAC to watch the shit show again........and yes, it's been beat to death. Here's a response from the party involved (posted below the incident report).

"I know that our party, the party involved in the December 29th incident on Echo Peak, made numerous mistakes. I chose to make the helmet cam video available to Sierra Avalanche Center so that others could learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. As the leader of the party, I take full credit for all of the mistakes and want to document what I've learned from them.

The first mistake was taking an inexperienced, ill-equipped group into the backcountry. Every member of the party should have been carrying a beacon, probe, and shovel. Additionally every member of the party should have been trained in avalanche safety. We only had two complete kits among our party of five, carried by the female skier in the video and by me, the skier who was caught in the slide. The other three members of the party were complete novices in the backcountry, able to ski black diamonds at a resort, but with no experience out of bounds. As the party leader, I should never have taken the group up Echo Peak, but I let the party's excitement about the day sway my decision. I made a bad decision.

The second mistake I made was allowing the excitement in the group to override sound decision making. Two of the inexperienced members of the party had never summited Echo. Safety and snow pack conditions dictated turning the group around at tree line and descending the ridge crest. However, I let emotion make the decision and allowed the party to continue above tree line to the summit. This decision required descending the slope directly above the ridge terminus. A slope that I knew was prone to sliding under the right circumstances, and having kept abreast of conditions, I knew conditions were conducive to an an avalanche. Again, I made a bad decision.

We skied one at a time from the crest to a safe zone in the trees at the start of the ridge proper, but I made my third mistake by choosing to ski a line slightly skier's left of the safest line to the meeting point in the trees. The female skier in the group asked that I not ski that line, but I let my emotions once again get the better of me. The several turns in untracked snow on a 45 degree slope were just too tempting. My intentions were to ski to skier's left of the large rocks where the slide released from, then veer hard to skier's right and meet the party on the ridge. I knew that the slope was convex. I knew that there was a rock band below my intended route. My thoughts were, "I've skied this line before. It's only a few turns." I made a very bad decision. Fortunately I have been able to kick myself repeatedly for it.

Once the slope let go, I was helpless. Everything I'd ever heard, read, or talked about went through my mind. Stay on top. Get your feet downhill. Backstroke. Remember to create an air pocket when the slide slows. Punch a hand towards the sky. The truth is that I was at the mercy of the snow. I went over the rock step head first on my back. Fortunately, I didn't crater on impact and end up buried by the rest of the snow as it came over the edge. Instead, I was rag dolled out of my crater and ended up somehow close to the surface. I was able to punch one fist upward as the slide slowed, but otherwise was completely unable to move. Everything was black and the urge to panic was overwhelming. After repeatedly telling myself to calm down, I was able to clear an airway with my free hand. Then all I could do was wait. I was very lucky.

Much has been made on various forums about the way that the skier with the helmet cam handled the rescue. He has been flamed for taking his gloves off, for telling the female skier with the beacon to take her time in transitioning the gear to him, for not putting the handle in the shovel, ad infinitum. The truth is, I am proud of the way he, a novice at avalanche rescue, handled the situation. He knew that the female skier was panicking and had to keep her calm. He knew that the whole party shouldn't descend to the burial site. He left two people on the ridge to watch the hangfire. Then he descended to the burial site with a partner, one at a time, in a controlled manner. In debriefing after the incident, we discussed what he could have done differently. It goes without saying that he should have left his gloves on. Other than that, there are two possible scenarios. First scenario:Once the skier in the black jacket had located my glove above the debris, the one unburied probe and beacon should have been left on the ridge. That way a beacon/probe search could have been initiated in the case of a secondary avalanche burying the rescue party. Second scenario: My glove was located above the debris, but what if my hand wasn't in it? Seen from 100 meters away, it was impossible to tell. If the beacon and probe were left on the ridge, that would have led to additional delays in getting the rescue gear to the burial and would have put one more skier in the path of a secondary release. As for the unassembled shovel, I have to take credit for that mistake. I should have made sure that the entire party knew where the rescue gear was located and how to assemble it before ever leaving the trailhead. Finally, my rescuer didn't relinquish shoveling duties to his partner once his hands started to freeze. He could have either taken the time to get gloves on his wet hands, or asked the skier in the black jacket to continue digging while he warmed his hands.

I'm sure that there are many more lessons to learn from this incident. That is the reason that I chose to let Sierra Avalanche Center make the video public. My hope was that I would receive constructive criticism and maybe force other people to review their decisions and the process by which they make those decisions. I knew that we would be flamed for our mistakes, but I'll take the flames if my mistakes will help keep others safe. My hope also is that all of the flaming does not discourage others from making public their mistakes, so that we, the backcountry community, can learn from each other. We all make mistakes, some of us more than others, I am sure, but we all make mistakes. I've watched countless avalanche videos and thought, "What an idiot!" "Why'd the dude do that?" or "That guy is completely clueless." Guess this time I'm the idiot and the clueless one. Hopefully, because I chose to share this video, you won't be the clueless one if or when things go wrong."

This is great. We all make mistakes and bad judgments from time to time. (I feel pretty lucky to have survived my years as an 18-24 year-old.) The key is learning from those mistakes (or the mistakes of others), which this guy certainly has. Kudos. Of course, most folks commenting here have perfect decision making, so there's nothing for them to learn.

**jondrums** · 01-04-2013, 12:34 PM

anyone who wants to make some turns at squaw or alpine Sat, pm me for a cell#. Also open to a tour if anyone is going out in the Truckee area.

**powdork** · 01-04-2013, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by AKbruin

Of course, most folks commenting here have perfect decision making,

right up until it isn't, and then we're not here any more

**old goat** · 01-04-2013, 06:57 PM

For the old hippies amongst us--Steve Earle at the Nugget in Reno Thursday 1/10

**dhklauer** · 01-04-2013, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

For the old hippies amongst us--Steve Earle at the Nugget in Reno Thursday 1/10

cant go wrong with 'copperhead road'

**TurxSki** · 01-04-2013, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier

15 guys get drunk at a party at a cabin at Echo Lakes...

Originally Posted by gimpy

wow, just read the account and watched the video of a skier caught in a slide on echo peak...

...So hang on...is this just a coincidence?
2 dumbass things happen at around the same time, in about the same place?
Affiliated groups?
All "Yuppers" from MI?
Just the time of year I guess?

Cinders & me (and the Buses) will be at Heavenly tomorrow, and KW on Sunday.
Holla Y Doncha?

Cool to meet you at Squaw on New Years PowPig. Didya get those BroFats sorted out?