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  1. #1
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    Did Toyota blow it?

    Is it just me or does anyone else think Toyota dropped the ball with the most recent Tacoma body styles?

    I mean the thing is huge. I'm sure many of you construction-dentists and you farming-dentists are stoked but the outdoorsy nurse-dentist like myself got pushed out of the market.

    My bro has one and it is the same size as the older tundras.

    I'd like to see what others think. What is the new Tacoma?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpinalTap View Post
    I'm really troubled by whatever pictures the Don had to search through to arrive at that one...

  2. #2
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    They are definitely nice but I like the smaller style. Drove a '00 for a long time. I picture Mr Toyoda laughing and saying "oh you American, you have very big dick, need very big truck, I charge you more now..."

  3. #3
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    I thought the same thing about the newest 4Runner styling.

  4. #4
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    I've been wanting to upgrade my 01 for a while now but the new ones won't fit in the garage space I have.

  5. #5
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    Personally, I think the current Tacoma is the perfect size. It's not fucking huge like the new Fords and Tundras, but it's not tiny. About right really. The issue is that Toyota hasn't slotted in a new, smaller model because as Conundrum illustrated; that's the buyer mentality these days.

  6. #6
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    The 2004 and older ones wheel so well too, I've been in plenty of spots offroad that a newer one would've taken body damage

  7. #7
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    I think there needs to be a small capable 4x4 truck on the market, like the old mazda b2600, or old nissans and yotas. I'm sure I can't be the only one who doesn't need a 1 ton cummins for going to the mall.
    ::.:..::::.::.:.::..::.

  8. #8
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    By most recent are we talking about the '05 and newer body styler or is there a new newer one I don't know about?
    If the former, I'd say no they didn't blow it because they've been selling the shit out of them for the better part of a decade now.

  9. #9
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    Has the bigger body styles actually increased sales?

    If it has it is def a different buying demographic. And if they did loose that small-truck demographic what are they buying?

    I want a new small truck and they're not out there anymore. Who's making it?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpinalTap View Post
    I'm really troubled by whatever pictures the Don had to search through to arrive at that one...

  10. #10
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    Look up Chicken Tax.

    There is a reason there aren't more small trucks. In Mexico, the VW Amorak is pretty cool. Wish we could get then stateside.
    JigaRex Universal Ski Mounting Jig

  11. #11
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    there is a market....... give me an raptor in ranger size

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkgt View Post
    there is a market....... give me an raptor in ranger size
    So much this. Damn that would be fun.

    I think they need to bring the tercel sr5 back

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
    Has the bigger body styles actually increased sales?

    If it has it is def a different buying demographic. And if they did loose that small-truck demographic what are they buying?

    I want a new small truck and they're not out there anymore. Who's making it?
    Yeah, I gotcha. I will say though, I drove a 2000 taco for 3 years before it died a horrible death in a nasty wreck. Loved the shit out of that thing, and thought the same about the new ones, but my brother in law recently picked up an 07 4 door manual and I'll be damned if it isn't almost identical to drive after getting used to it for about 20 minutes.

    Almost all cars get bigger every body style for some reason. Look at the Outback in it's 4 iterations since the 90's. Same is true for any other number of cars. Accord, Camry, Audi A4, Rav 4, Forester and CRV are the first few that come to mind. There's like a bajillion other examples. Actually I can't think of a car that hasn't gotten bigger in a new model in the last several years.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotoad View Post
    Actually I can't think of a car that hasn't gotten bigger in a new model in the last several years.
    How about the new style outback wrx and impreza? Those are definitely smaller than the previous body style.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by davieboot View Post
    Look up Chicken Tax. .
    thats interesting^^ but even the Ford Ranger/Mazda B4000 which were made in Freemont Cali which means no Chicken tax have had decreasing sales figures year after year, just look at the sales figures for the ford Ranger which is a "small truck" to the point where Ford quit making Rangers last december, the ranger needed a facelift BUT the sales figures don't justify redesigning another small truck ... they wouldn't make their development/retooling costs back in sales

    Yearly American sales
    Calendar Year Total American sales
    1999 348,358
    2000 330,125
    2001 272,460
    2002 226,094
    2003 209,117
    2004 156,322
    2005 120,958
    2006 92,420
    2007 72,711
    2008 65,872
    2009 55,600
    2010 55,364

    Toyota decided to make the Tacoma bigger than a small truck but smaller than an F150 and the Taco is selling well

    what is boils down to is while you may want to buy a "small truck" most North Americans want a bigger truck that carries dad/ mom/ 2.2 kids/ the black lab and all that shit they bought at costco & walmart

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Ford Ranger/Mazda B4000 sales figures year after year

    Yearly American sales
    Calendar Year Total American sales
    1999 348,358
    2000 330,125
    2001 272,460
    2002 226,094
    2003 209,117
    2004 156,322
    2005 120,958
    2006 92,420
    2007 72,711
    2008 65,872
    2009 55,600
    2010 55,364
    Wow, those numbers are shocking. Sometimes it is hard to remember that most of the people I hang out with are not necessarily a good representation of the American purchasing public. I assume everyone wants a small, 4x4 truck, but it isn't true. Plus, if you cruise around LA or San Diego, you see countless 2005+ Tacomas. Not sure how many older ones were driving around the cities ten years ago, but the new style clearly appeal so to plenty of people.

  17. #17
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    I think the small truck crowd turned into the small SUV crowd. Why buy a small truck to go to the mall when you can get an Escape, Rav4 or a lesibaru.

  18. #18
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    The car manufacturers have only blown it to the extent that they're cultivating American consumer stupidity.

    Most people don't need a truck. And who the fuck wants a Cadillac truck or one with fancy ass wheels let alone an automatic transmission?

    Similarly the SUV is a piece of shit marketed to people who want to believe that it's necessay and a better vehicle than a station wagon. They get worse mileage than station wagons, are inherently more dangerous because of their high center of gravity and also handle like a bag of water on a pole.

    What really blows is that one can't buy a 6 cylinder awd station wagon with a manual transmission anymore in the USA. And while the car companies are partly to blame, most of the responsibility for that rests on the saggy gut of the fatass American consumer.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    Similarly the SUV is a piece of shit marketed to people who want to believe that it's necessay and a better vehicle than a station wagon. They get worse mileage than station wagons, are inherently more dangerous because of their high center of gravity and also handle like a bag of water on a pole.
    If you really do need everything that it does, a 4WD SUV is an amazingly useful vehicle.
    - seats 4/5 or more
    - 4WD: snow, offroad
    - covered, secured cargo space
    - hauls bikes/skis/etc. on roof, or roof cargo box
    - tows (5000# tow rating is common)

    While I like AWD wagons, and have considered them, there isn't one that does all these things like a body-on-frame 4WD SUV. Tradeoff: handling, MPG.

    If you eliminate the need for offroad and towing, an AWD wagon does everything else just fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

  20. #20
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    Interesting stuff with the chicken tax davie. Not debating but trying to understand how Toyota was profitable with small trucks from the late 70s until 2004 but in '05 the chicken tax then made a difference?

    I understand if the American market demand for bigger trucks drove the change but wasn't the chicken tax always in play?

    I've driven both the older and newer body styles and think they drive similarly. What irks me is that the newer bigger trucks get as good if not better mpg's. Why not make that smaller truck with new tech for even better mpg's?

    I agree that not everyone needs a truck (or at least a big truck) but a small, 4x4 pickup with a topper in my mind truly is the hands down best "SUV". You can throw muddy stuff in it, dogs can go in back, dump runs, bikes, wet skis and you don't have to mess with a box, you can tow a small trailer with a smaller boat, sleds, etc., build a sleeping platform and you can dirtbag anywhere ninja style, and in a pinch, people can (uncomfortably) ride in the jump seat. If something is stinky it isn't in the passenger compartment either. There really isn't an SUV that fits the definition of a sport utility better.

    Maybe cars are just doing what Americans are...getting bigger.

    I know I'm in the minority but if Toyota put a diesel in a 2004 extended cab 6' bed pickup style, I would definitely have car payments again. I know the diesel debate is a whole other issue.

    And for everyone talking about trucks, if it doesn't have at least a 6' bed, it's not a pickup or a truck.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by davieboot View Post
    Wow, those numbers are shocking. Sometimes it is hard to remember that most of the people I hang out with are not necessarily a good representation of the American purchasing public. I assume everyone wants a small, 4x4 truck, but it isn't true. Plus, if you cruise around LA or San Diego, you see countless 2005+ Tacomas. Not sure how many older ones were driving around the cities ten years ago, but the new style clearly appeal so to plenty of people.
    Consider that the purpose of toyota or ford is:

    TO MAKE MONEY FOR THE SHAREHOLDER

    not to augment your lifestyle which it coincidently did with the small PU's right up to the early Tacoma's before Toyota made them bigger

    BTW those last small tacomas were the last models of an established line that were made in Japan, the assembly line runs for 5 years and any car engineer will tell you the last car off the line will be better than the 1st car off the line SO those trucks would have been better made because they were the last not beacuse they were coincidently made in japan

    What REALLY makes a LOT of sense to the American consumer is actualy the mini van, I drove one full of computer parts all over northern BC in all kinds of shit weather, lots of room good milage comfortable and reasonable handling because they have a longer WB/lower profile/FWD better handling at highway speed than an SUV or truck

    BUT people who had mini vans now want to distance themselves from the whole mini van/soccermom scene by buying a SUV to navigate strip malls that never sees a dirt road

    If the car companies are making $$$ selling SUV's or cadilac trucks with automatics then IMO they are doing their job by making $$$ for the share holders , so if a car company is $$$ building something you don't like who is wrong ?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    If you really do need everything that it does, a 4WD SUV is an amazingly useful vehicle.
    - seats 4/5 or more
    - 4WD: snow, offroad
    - covered, secured cargo space
    - hauls bikes/skis/etc. on roof, or roof cargo box
    - tows (5000# tow rating is common)

    While I like AWD wagons, and have considered them, there isn't one that does all these things like a body-on-frame 4WD SUV. Tradeoff: handling, MPG.

    If you eliminate the need for offroad and towing, an AWD wagon does everything else just fine.
    SUVs drive like shit.
    I have a 300 hp awd station wagon that seats 7 and can tow a shitload if it needs to. But 99.9% of the time I'm don't need to tow anything.

    What can an SUV really do that a large station wagon can't? Offroad? I don't fucking need or want offroad caps in my cars. I spend time on plowed roads.

    If there were a greater selection of awd station wagons, people might buy them. But most people are herd animals who do what everyone else does.

    I fucking hate SUVs but I'm probably going to have to buy one of thes pieces of shit because there's no other awd manual transmission options.
    h(If you want to take it personally, go ahead; it's not intended as a personal attack but goddamit can't I just have a decent fucking rant?)
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    Consider that the purpose of toyota or ford is:

    TO MAKE MONEY FOR THE SHAREHOLDER
    I fundamentally disagree with this. Making money is only part of the objective. Obviously that's a necessary consequence, but it's putting the cart in front of the horse.

    I know, I know, it's too hard for most people to wrap their heads around. But the objective is understanding a market and making a product that can be supported by that market. Money is just the shit that comes out at the end.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    ...and also handle like a bag of water on a pole.
    That's good, I'm going to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    What really blows is that one can't buy a 6 cylinder awd station wagon with a manual transmission anymore in the USA.
    That just gave me a horrifying flashback to my mom's Rambler station wagon. It had three-on-the-tree. Not a high school babe magnet as I came to discover.

  25. #25
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    just want to say my 2008 tacoma is the greatest vehicle ever. mainly because i use it like a truck, you know, as a tool, and it still fits 5 adults comfortably.

    not to mention it gets 5mpg better milage than the small 94 truck it replaced.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

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