The End of an Era – Kirkwood Closes RV Park and ending All Outside Overnight Parking

[Marhankins]

I thought the tower was privately owned.

[komo]

Today I spoke to the Forest Ranger for Carson Pass Sno-Park.

Next I look up the overnight parking and car camping rules for Sno-Parks. It says overnighting in a car IS allowed.

I call the Carson Pass Ranger, they say no, you can't sleep in your car at Carson Pass, but you can park the car there overnight. I asked them to email me a link to the rules, pending a reply.

Yeah that was my understanding too (overnighting in a car at a snopark) is fine if overnight parking is allowed. Very interested to know what you hear back from the ranger.

[jon_slider]

> I thought the tower was privately owned.

I don't know, but, what difference would that make, its still $300 a season to park there, right?

> Very interested to know what you hear back from the ranger.

will definitely share what I learn.

Meanwhile, if anyone drives past Carson Pass Sno-Park, please look for signage, maybe even post a photo if there is a sign, and also if there is NOT a sign, regarding overnight parking or camping.

One of the most frustrating parts of this research is the multiple agencies jurisdiction, Forest Service, Highway Patrol, CalTrans.

The Forest service claims they don't make the parking rules, Caltrans does. The Forest service tickets for parking overnight if there is a sign, and the Highway Patrol gives tickes for sleeping in a car.

I would have to start a conversation with Cal-Trans, and the Highway Patrol to begin to get all the different rules. Im not going to do that. It is already a cluster just to unravel the false info Kwood gave me, and the conflicting info the SnoPark website has, vs the comments made by the Ranger on the phone, for which I have no verification or document link.

> my understanding too (overnighting in a car at a snopark) is fine if overnight parking is allowed

I agree, which is why I thought the Ranger was confused when they said overnight parking yes, car camping no.

Bottom line, no sign, no fine. Somebody please go see if there is a Sign at Carson Pass, forbidding overnight parking. I can't do it because I live 4 hours away.

[komo]

Agree that the ranger was probably confused. Caltrans, CHP all state agencies and snopark state-operated program and pretty clear about in-vehicle being OK

Bottom line, no sign, no fine. Somebody please go see if there is a Sign at Carson Pass, forbidding overnight parking. I can't do it because I live 4 hours away.

Not 100% and don't have time to look through the thread, but I thought someone posted pics upthread

[jon_slider]

> Caltrans, CHP all state agencies and snopark state-operated program and pretty clear about in-vehicle being OK

right, unless there is an exception
Forest Service told me Carson Pass is an exception
To confirm that I need to go to Carson Pass and check if there is a sign forbidding overnight parking..

Im pretty clear that if Overnight parking is not posted as Not alowed, then Overnight parking includes the right to sleep in the vehicle.

http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=1233
"Overnight parking, including in-vehicle camping is allowed except where noted or signed at SNO-PARK sites."

again:
"except where noted or signed at SNO-PARK sites."

> I thought someone posted pics upthread

found it thanks to outwesty
from page 10 of this thread
> Yes, alas, I double confirmed with the Amador Ranger district that overnight 'camping' will Not be allowed at Meiss Meadows and Carson SnoParks. Overnight unoccupied parking Is allowed for people staying in the back country, only.

That matches what I was told.

and
posted 11/21/2012




that looks like they did not post Carson Pass with the yellow NO CAMPING HERE badge. I wonder what the current sign looks like?

I just got off the phone with the owner of the 7800' Club, David, at 209-258-8880. He was probably the most encouraging contact I have made so far. David informed me that it IS OK to overnight camp behind the Club, by paying $25 a night Sunday through Thursday, and $35 a night on Friday and Saturday.

He also said there was a $300 season pass being offered by a group of people who organized to have the lot plowed so they can camp there with 7800' owner's consent, and not paying a nightly fee. He is not sure the $300 pass is still available.

So at this point I see 2 options for a Saturday overnight vehicle campout, pay $35 and stay on base, or drive 7 miles to Carson Pass, if we confirm there is no sign forbidding overnight parking. Difference is, if you stay at Carson and snowfall makes CalTrans lock the gate at Kirkwood Inn (or whoever has that jurisdiction) , you wont get back on base with a vehicle.

[HansJob]

I'd pay the $35 for the convenience, but I'm not on my fourth tranny.

[powdrhound]

As you were told by Dave, overnight parking may be available in the High Sierra Campers Association's parking lot.

HSCA members have first priority. Guest campers are welcome if space is available.

Midweek will not ever be a problem.
Weekends can get busy.
Check in at the 7,800.
Please pick up after your dogs.

Season passes are sold out for this year. Sorry. It is just a little space we are having cleared.
If you want to get on a waiting list, see Dale some weekend.











Let it Snow!

[jon_slider]

Thanks for sharing the options

Im totally new, do these terms all refer to the same place,
the High Sierra Campers Association's parking lot = the 7800' Club parking lot = The Towers Parking lot?

> HSCA members have first priority

I was thinking of getting a group of 2 or 3 Vans together at Kwood. So far everything Im hearing is that there are no guarantees we would be able to park anywhere on base, and conflicting info about Carson Pass..

Pretty freaking frustrating

[splat]

> I thought the tower was privately owned.

I don't know, but, what difference would that make, its still $300 a season to park there, right?

Who's thumb would you rather be under? Vail's or dude who owns a bar?
That's the best piece of real estate in the valley.

[powdrhound]

Who's thumb would you rather be under? Vail's or dude who owns a bar?
That's the best piece of real estate in the valley.

There are no thumbs.
There is a group of TC RV Lot regulars that had been purchasing the RV Pass, then camping by the Towers after TC had shut down for the year.
We could not do that this year because of a poorly thought out decision by the new ownership group. We were forced to find an alternative.

Dave, at the 7,800, has kindly worked with us.
The camper group arranged for permission, signed the snow removal contract, splitting the cost between ourselves. Any money collected from non-members will decrease our costs. It is just a bunch of ski bums working collectively.

Personally, I love it. We still are in a mud lot, but the view is amazing. High Whiskey to your door.
A friendly bar and restaurant steps away, live bands and a pool table.

One night as I was fixing dinner, and listening to the snow-cats in the distance, it hit me - they were in the distance, not driving right by my door 20 times per night. Their snowplow's are not starting to clear the lot around you at 2 am. I don't have to wear earplugs to sleep.

They may have done us a favor.
We certainly have increased the resort's parking capacity by a few spaces. They should thank us.





Let it Snow!

[tillPOWdidwepart]

This does my heart good! Glad to hear this is working out for you, powderhound!

[Ottime]

And as far as car camping goes, you can still do it. Stop asking where and be creative. When I called and asked permission 10 years ago the response was something like, "Dude, not really. But you can still do it. Just don't get caught." Since then they created and ended the RV lot. These guys have put something cool together. Ma co-op of sorts. And Hugh, why all the anger? Bad week? Other than a few employees of the resort, no one in this thread is apologetic for KW's decision.

[splat]

There are no thumbs.

Sure sounded like there was a thumb with Vail's prints all over it when you started this thread. Then every govt/hiway/forest-related agency had you under their thumbs. Is this a figure of speech with which perhaps you are not familiar?

[jon_slider]

> Stop asking where and be creative.

Thats about where I got to with this too, but:

I was asking for legal parking for a get together of more than one camper.

It is not very practical to hide a multi vehicle group. Getting rousted at 2am, and having to pay a fine for overnighting, is not good meetup planning.

As far as thumbprints, I blame every single body who does not give me what I want. I want parking. Vail says no, Kirkwood says no, Carson Pass says no, and 7800 Club says yes, but no guarantees on storm days.

Weekend Storm days are the days that I really NEED on skibase parking.

There is nothing in this thread that solves the need for parking on base during storms. I agree the owner of the 7800 club is doing us an awesome service by allowing the private camper group to have access.

But honestly, the private camper group is, Private. There are no open meberships. In fact, the person who organized the group, does not want his number made public. That sounds pretty exclusive to me. Even though they are willing to share, IF they dont need to use the space themselves.

Again, not a suitable option for a group get together to plan on.

Its every man hiding, for himself. No Friends on Powder Days.

Kind of like the One Man One Wave Rule, in surfing.

[jetlag]

pay $35 and stay on base.

Or pay $35 and stay in SoLake with TV, Wifi, heat, fridge, bed, jacuzzi, free continental breaky, etc...

If im sleeping in my car im doing it super indiscreetly and definitely free. $35 or even $25 is absurd to camp.

[snuttypants]

Or pay $35 and stay in SoLake with TV, Wifi, heat, fridge, bed, jacuzzi, free continental breaky, etc...

If im sleeping in my car im doing it super indiscreetly and definitely free. $35 or even $25 is absurd to camp.

Totally agree. The people at the forest service has their hands tied. They can't tell vail corp what to do. And they can't tell the state what to do with their sno-parks.

[skihound14]

YOU CAN STAY OVERNIGHT IN YOUR RV BEHIND 7800' BAR AND GRILL AT KIRKWOOD NEXT TO CHAIR 1 AND REDCLIFFS LODGE. JUST GO IN THE RESTAURANT TO REGISTER. IT'S THE BEST RESTAURANT ON THE HILL AND AN INDEPENDENTLY OWNED BUSINESS.

[splat]

Good stuff. The Tower rocks. Always has.
You still out there powderhound?

[jon_slider]

YOU CAN STAY OVERNIGHT IN YOUR RV BEHIND 7800' BAR AND GRILL

True, and a great option.

A couple of caveats, the 12 members of the Club that rents the lot from the Bar have priority. On a busy day, you can be asked to leave if you are taking up a spot that a member wants to use.

Also, it is not free, you need to pay $25 a night to the Bar. I was just there this weekend, there were only 3 RVs and tons of room left.

I also stayed there last year, for 3 days, arrived on a Wednesday and was the only vehicle.


Friday morning I woke up surrounded by BIG RV's parked within inches of my door. I also got to listen to their furnace running the night before.

[powdrhound]

Good stuff. The Tower rocks. Always has.
You still out there powderhound?

Yea, that is me on the left end in Jon's photo from last year.

Dave (7,800) is having a Pray for Snow bonfire every Saturday night until it snows. A good time is had by all.

[reidc]

Sort of tangential but I'm a n00b and didn't want to start my own thread for this; you guys can probably help me with an answer: Where is a "safe" (from towing) place to leave my car for a few nights in the Jackson area? I'm meeting a friend coming from Sacramento, and we're planning on taking his car up to KW.

The only thing that popped into my head was "Jackson Rancheria". I mean, they must encourage people to park there and gamble their social security checks for days on end without sleep, right? Plus there's a hotel, and it's a holiday weekend. Even if they take down guests' license plate numbers at checkin, there's *no way* they actually troll the (undoubtedly massive; never been there before) lot for cars that are merely there for 2.5 days, and then make sure they're on the list of registered guests, right? Right?

I don't even mind paying a few bucks, just need to stash my car and have it not towed for a few days. Maybe the RV park can hook me up, but I imagine they want big bucks. Not worried about it getting stolen; it won't, and I'm insured for more than the car's worth.

Maybe run into the gift shop and throw a jackson rancheria guide on the dash of the car before I go?

Or is there a better place in the area to leave a car quasi-legally for a few days?

[LongShortLong]

Try this http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/sy...10_prkride.pdf
Also, call 511 on your phone and ask.

[Ottime]

Safeway lot.

[reidc]

Try this http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/sy...10_prkride.pdf
Also, call 511 on your phone and ask.

Interesting thought. My google-fu and caltrans-search-fu failed me (no actual location or information on the lot other than the hwy 88 mp 14.1 listed on the map) so I called the friendly folks at Caltrans district 10. Got passed around a few times until I ended up with the public information officer, but he just started the job on Monday, so he took my name and number and promised to look it up and get back to me.

Another promising idea of slightly-less-questionable legality is the Amador County Airport.

Now I've got a bunch of place that I could almost certainly get away with, but it's almost become a quest to find The One True Location that is, in fact, totally legal. You know how it is, once you start researching, you want the best answer possible. Will report back my findings and if nothing 100% legal comes up I'll just pick the best-sounding place to ditch the car.

[reidc]

ANSWER: Amador County Airport.
http://www.co.amador.ca.us/departments/airport

Just got off the phone with a fellow there. Overnight parking is *legal* (I specified 2.5 days; he did not balk at this but I did not ask about the maximum permissible time allowed).

He said "outside the gate is at your own risk and free, inside the gate is $5 per day". I see on their website that office hours are 8-5 Mon-Fri. I would assume you have to pay in the office, so if you show up outside those hours you cannot get inside the fence, either to get your car in or out -- but perhaps I am wrong and the gate is staffed at different hours.

Either way, "free, at your own risk" suits my summer beater just fine.

Thanks all.

UPDATE:
Got a call back about the Park and Ride lot. It's at "Mel's and Faye's Diner" in Jackson. On 49, the short stretch where 49 and 88 are the same highway. *just* north of the point where 88 splits off and heads east towards the 'wood.

Mel's & Faye's Dinermore info‎
31 California 49
Jackson, CA 95642
(209) 223-0853
https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...78243138937049

The nice Amador County gentleman, Rick, told me there are 8 spots in the back marked for P&R and are never full (no kidding). I looked on Google Earth and can actually see the green circles indicating the spots. Hope this helps someone.