The End of an Era – Kirkwood Closes RV Park and ending All Outside Overnight Parking

[powdork]

i think the vibe is still what we make it, especially with the kids. on sunny days its always fun to pack your lunch and park it on a sunny spot off the trail or ob if they're able. they can't take that away. having said that, i haven't got the kids passes this year. one has a freebie from sierra so i may go there with them.
hopefully the rv lot thing can be worked out. i'd find it hard to believe they wouldn't try to work out a solution. it's really in their best interest.
the lines weren't all that bad last year and i doubt they'll be much worse this year.

[neckdeep]

neckdeep, I understand Vail's business. I'm just not sure how they plan to capitalize on KW. Their usual clientele, which is not quite the 1%, but tend to be folks with extra cash, expect a very high level of service. I just don't ever see that happening consistently enough at KW. So where will the 1% play?

Vail Corp's strategy, as they explain it, is to geographically diversify their ski resort/real estate portfolio to minimize the risk of a snowless xmas in one area giving revenues a beating. They envision moving their share of the 1% and their vacationing family revenues around from region to region to whatever part of the Vail Resorts network is drawing the vacationers/herd who book or cancel based upon where the snow has been flying. As part of a resort empire with a current market cap of $2billion, KW now has the resources to build out and then absorb a bad season or two or three because losses are offset elsewhere. Vail Corp wanted to buy the Village at Jackson, for example, and when the offer was rejected the company bought into Jackson by purchasing the Golf & Tennis Club and set about redeveloping that. They just wanted to own a piece of the action in an area that rarely has a no-snow disaster during xmas holidays like CO and CA had last season.

So, yes, they will build KW up to the standards their clientele expects. After all, we are talking about a company that is backed by the confidence that comes from building a small city from scratch in the arid mountains of the west slope and making a fortune off of it. Vail Corp has never been in the business of leaving things alone. They have been willing to take on huge political and legal fights on their home turf to always be expanding "just a little more" because Vail Corp is like a fucking shark; if it ever stops swimming and eating, it will die. It got to the point, back in '98, you may recall, where Vail Corp had broken so many promises for so long that some guys just went out and burned down a few million dollars worth of on-mountain lodges. Remember that? Misguided, perhaps, but a notable expression of the rage this company has reaped inside the town it created.

It is a public company and will always be under a relentless expectation to keep growing revenues/earnings, even if it means accepting thinner margins on dubious ventures to do so. $18mil for KW seems like small potatoes to Vail Corp's financial scale ($2bil); they'll probably throw another $20mil into development and marketing, no problemo. Vail Resorts is trading close to its all time high right now so they must be doing something right in that department cuz the P/E is a laughable 145?!?. Whatever...never underestimate the ability of highly compensated, publically held company executives to do expensive stupid things with the shareholder's money purely for the sake of looking busy or to drive up share prices to the point here they can cash out their options. Case in point, in your neighborhood, Hewlitt Packard.

[Goatski]

yeah neckdeep! bravo!

remember everyone - Vail Corp votes Romney

Don't be like Vail Corp

[Ottime]

i think the vibe is still what we make it, especially with the kids. on sunny days its always fun to pack your lunch and park it on a sunny spot off the trail or ob if they're able. they can't take that away. having said that, i haven't got the kids passes this year. one has a freebie from sierra so i may go there with them.
hopefully the rv lot thing can be worked out. i'd find it hard to believe they wouldn't try to work out a solution. it's really in their best interest.
the lines weren't all that bad last year and i doubt they'll be much worse this year.

All true. But what if they close the boundaries. Or if they close them during the holidays, to keep the lemmings contained. Oh, wait, that has already happened.

That hurts, man.

Sorry man. I was drinking and typing and not being considerate of feelings. Just make sure your co-workers know how dangerous those roads are and that KW is really not that good on a powder day.

Vail Corp's strategy, as they explain it,

All good points. So, for those who already own in the valley, it could be a good thing. The funny thing is, even the home owners I know are nervous. They bought in to a place that they loved for their families, and that could all change. Sure, property values could increase, but they never really thought of this as an investment. Anyway, Vail will build. But I still think KW is in their most unique and challenging location. It will be interesting seeing how they try to do it.

The good thing about money is the truth that KW needs investment. The lift system is old. The power is a huge issue. The valley could support more beds, and that might bring a touch of night life. Not horrible things. But does Vail have what it takes not to rip the heart out?

Anyway, any of you RV riff raff, or other riff raff, looking for a place to crash this winter, I just got word on the newest lease in the valley. Guestimate of $100 fro mid Dec to mid April. More here.

[rush1975]

Any clue on what actions will be taken on those who decide to show up before a storm and camp in the RV lot? Disappointing news to say the least having already purchased a pass!

[haydukelives]

Any clue on what actions will be taken on those who decide to show up before a storm and camp in the RV lot? Disappointing news to say the least having already purchased a pass!

Cover your windows and dont answer the knock

[jon gaper]

Cover your windows and dont answer the knock

there are way better places to park than the RV lot

[Ottime]

^^^^this. If you are not in an RV, you should have no problem finding a spot at Vailwood for a few years until they figure out all the nooks and crannies. And, while the street I am on tends to get a little crowded over the weekend, you can always poke around the neighborhoods for a spot in a pull out. Some home owners will mind, but most won't as long as you are not taking up their spot. And then there is always employee parking. Just avoid campfires and bright lights, and you will be fine.

[2002fxsts]

I guess you didn't get the memo or read all the new signs ?

I'm totally shocked... or not. VailWood. Next thing you know they'll frown upon smoking weed on the lifts or something.

[yaadood]

i say all the RV riff raff should just wait for a big storm cycle to roll in and get stuck there for a few days. really what are they going to do when you're there face to face instead of ignoring emails?

at least the cops won't even be able to get there if the pass is closed to ticket you...

[LongShortLong]

From www.kolotv.com's VR story

Due to the massive amounts of natural snowfall Kirkwood receives each year, the resort made a significant investment in state-of-the-art, computerized snow removal equipment for the roadways as well as new snow safety artillery to more safely and efficiently clear the slopes for operation.

The computerized robotic snow removers must get confused when they find a vehicle or RV, and activate the state-of-the-art snow safety artillery. It's really for our own safety; protecting us from the machines. Beware "Prime directive 4."

[jon gaper]

From www.kolotv.com's VR story


The computerized robotic snow removers must get confused when they find a vehicle or RV, and activate the state-of-the-art snow safety artillery. It's really for our own safety; protecting us from the machines. Beware "Prime directive 4."

There are hundreds of cars parked outside overnight along the roadways in parking places,and in at least 3 other lots aside from where they sent the RV"s.How will this new blind equipment avoid them?

[Ottime]

Since when did state of the art imply blind? It just can't see RVs because they are so big. Duh.

Funny story. I do remember a storm that someone left a small car (like civic of something) in the 6 lot. Dumped 3,4,5 or more feet overnight and the plow never saw the car. Thing was nearly ripped in half come morning.

[turnstyles]

Damn im going to miss you Kirkweed. Ya the "K" factor was annoying at times but thats what made it unique. Im not an RV head but I do have compassion the people. THis BS coporate slim takeover of my home mountain has offically sent me elsewhere. Its sucks because I loved that hill and the vibe so much.

Maybe the former owners can buy June mountain?

[haydukelives]

Since when did state of the art imply blind? It just can't see RVs because they are so big. Duh.

Funny story. I do remember a storm that someone left a small car (like civic of something) in the 6 lot. Dumped 3,4,5 or more feet overnight and the plow never saw the car. Thing was nearly ripped in half come morning.

Please explain. What allows it to see a car and not a larger object like an RV?

[Ottime]

Dude, it has something to do with Elven Magic. Or maybe the K Factor.

^^^^Sorry there. I should have inserted a sarcasm icon, in my last post.


But this one is all serious. [SARCASM.ICON]

[TahoeJ]

I guess you didn't get the memo or read all the new signs ?

I guess you don't understand sarcasm.

[coop64]

Aloha oukou out here on the Forum,
It's not the end of an ERA, It’s the beginning!
I’ve read through the thread the past few weeks & was not going to respond but, that’s just not my nature. Most likely, a lot of angst out here on where we are going. The passion and concern for Kirkwood (as a Mtn.) is amazing and I am also extremely passionate about Kirkwood as a Mtn., as a job creator, as my families provider. Kirkwood has provided our family with a living since 1972. I’m now stoked that we can look out into the future, where in early Jan & February of this last winter I was a bit skeptical on the future. Some stated, maybe the prior ownership should purchase Bear… Wow..
I know a lot of you all on this thread, I understand the animosity, anxiety and in some case the fear that our Mtn. will change in the wrong direction. I use the word “our” for I truly believe that we all share Kirkwood in our own ways. I have spent a good amount of time with our new VR family, in Broomfield where I was welcomed in as “Kirkwood”. There is a great amount of respect from our new ownership group that is quite refreshing after the last decade here. A new look and perspective that we have not been in tune with in the past. A “want to get to know” our mountain, A “want to get to know our guest”, A want to “do it right” attitude that you all know we need to focus on here. We have been riding together for over 20yrs now here, I showed up here in 92. We have made good decisions along the way and we all know we have made some whopping doozie’s as well. Criticisms help us understand where we are missing when it comes to delivering the experience, I look to the Forum to get the unadulterated truth. Sometimes, it’s a little over the top, insulting, harsh, and at times straight bullsh!t. but I still say Respect get respect,
The RV policy is one we have been discussing each year for the past 6yrs. Each year the same topics are discussed, and yes they are #1 Waste/Trash #2 Fires & BBQ’s #3 Safety & Snow removal #4 What can we do to remedy the prior 3 not necessarily in order. Each year we hear from our security, snow removal & parking staff on what the issues were the year before. The team discusses and we set the policy. The piece that hurts, I am that “guy” in the van, not @resorts, but on the Coast. I have had my share of favorite spots closed due to the same reasoning. Doe this anger me, well honestly yes. But I look to the reason why – same 3 reasons above. It is not the good campers, RV’rs, Car crasher’s, It is the bad ones! Nobody can tell me they are in our lot 7 days a week as our staff is. The snapshot of that perfect evening, beers, families & kind words, after stoke of a POW day into the silence of the night and the glory of the sunrise & snowplows getting the resort ready to open…. It is those nights that the “home-boy” crew pulls in, bust out the BBQ & cooks then leave the coals, beers & pop cans, Mc’y D, Burger King bags, cigarettes butts, with no regard/respect for anyone else, they don’t move in the morning for the plows (like most of you do) in turn leaving a the little hump of a car with a small cave as a door and “f” the whole system for Mike and the snow removal team.

Does this affect John & the RV’r @Kirkwood? Yes it does.
Our decision was not an easy one. It now is the policy. To be clear the policy is “No Overnight RV Parking/Camping” Not - NO RV’s @Kirkwood…
As for the future, we have a lot to take in, review, look at, with a new perspective, new potential, completely new mind set. That is what is refreshing…. Ya’ll have kindly asked, well stated, said, yelled @me what our problems/issues have been in the past. We are going to address each and everyone here in the next 2-20yrs. We are all skeptics, we all are concerned and rightly so! I follow the threads & posts from you all - Spaltt, Ottime, POWDORK, Dookey67, Vets, Nuthon, Skier6’r and the lot of’ya (threads long enough already without all of your handles) to get a read on what the core believes, thinks & is saying as well as take a snack down each time I post. But I do, and I will.
As for the future part #2, we celebrate the 40th this year, To Monty Atwater, Bud Klein & Dick Reuter for the inspiration, to Jeff Walters, Al Plaugher DP & Dave Myers and all of our Mtn. Ops teams for the amazing hard work over the past decades here, and to you all for making Kirkwood, Kirkwood! If you are reading this and really do care about Kirkwood, I thank you, If you would like to grad a “quote” and rip my ass feel free to as well… I would not expect anything less…… If you ever want to express your concerns, you know where I am at.. I always listen, I may not be able to change everything, but I certainly can hear you out, make the suggestions and push for the positive, address the negative, and influence our direction for a better Kirkwood in the future.
Bull wheel set to turn Nov 21st. Snowmaking to begin as early as possible with the weather turn…
Stay’n Thirsty for POW- Hope to see you @chair 6 on the 1st cold smoke day!
Coop

[haydukelives]

There is another solution for the crowd that leaves garbage. Most of the garbage,however,does not come from the RV's, but from punks that get loaded for the trip home in their SUV.The sheriff is up there every day,all day,it seems. Littering tickets could be issued ,just as they are on the highways,starting high and escalating with each offense. There would be no garbage.


So Coop, are trucks and vans allowed to park overnight to avoid the 4am drive up from the bay area?

[coop64]

Hola haydukelives,
Agree on "where trash comes from" but that is a whole other item that hits home. For Kirkwood (us/me) to ask the CHP/Sheriff to begin issuing tickets would not go over too well, it's up to all of us to steer. I do not ever think that I have seen a CHP or Sheriff actually write one to tell you the truth........
The policy is "No Overnight", to set a height, length, van vs. car would be an issue in itself. Just like parking @The "Hook" "Waddell" "Davenport" "Scott's Creek" Parking closes @dark, opens at sunrise. I've rolled up @4a with the Burton beast, pulled in grabbed shuteye & waited for sunrise, suited up for the dawn patrol many of times. This is also about safety! We all tend to believe we are all the same, in knowledge, understanding and wise to what Mother nature can throw at us. Over the years we have had a few of these issues as well... Time to look @the way we operate every department from Parking to Food & Beverage, Tickets, to Lifts, Retail to Demo & Repair..... Everything. Your voices over the years have not fall'n silently. We have listened.
Thanks for the question, I hope to see you @Kirkwood!
Stay Thirsty my friend,
Coop

[ashmgee]

Most of the older contingent of Kirkwood employees have moved on or been moved out. The ones that remain are the typical "yes men", and I can't say that I blame them. You have to support yourself somehow, and Tahoe doesn't have much going on in that way.

So I for one don't blame Coop for towing the company line, He prolly thinks this is as much bullshit as the rest of us, and just isn't in a position to speak his mind.

The bottom line is that Vail wants the rv folks to stay in Kirkwood's overpriced condos. This has nothing to do with trash or bbqs or snow removal.

[bodywhomper]

Most of the older contingent of Kirkwood employees have moved on or been moved out. The ones that remain are the typical "yes men", and I can't say that I blame them. You have to support yourself somehow, and Tahoe doesn't have much going on in that way.

just to be clear, you are calling coop one of the "typical 'yes men'" as he's "of the older contingent of Kirkwood employees" that remains....


so to summarize coop's posts, the few bad apples messed it up for everybody else. rather than address the bad apples in a more creative fashion, kirkwood (not vail) has decided to incrementally change the demographic of their customer-base, for better or worst. for the company (kirkwood and/or vail), whether this intentional alienation of user/customer is 'good' or 'bad' is yet to be known. however, for the folks on this forum, it seems like a bad decision.

to repeat what i have said earlier, some of that demographic (those non-bad apples that overnight or used to overnight park in the lots) became valuable employees of kirkwood, and many of their friends have been regular and frequent and dedicated customers at kirkwood for several decades. if not for the former camping policy, most would have been going someplace else most of the time or would have not been going to kirkwood as frequently.

btw, whatever happened to the marine's? are they still using kirkwood for training? did they stop spending the night in the lot?

[ashmgee]

to repeat what i have said earlier, some of that demographic (those non-bad apples that overnight or used to overnight park in the lots) became valuable employees of kirkwood, and many of their friends have been regular and frequent and dedicated customers at kirkwood for several decades. if not for the former camping policy, most would not have been going someplace else most of the time.

btw, whatever happened to the marine's? are they still using kirkwood for training? did they stop spending the night in the lot?

did you mean most would have gone elsewhere most of the time? Or are you saying that the camping historically would have not had an effect on dedicated customers?

As far as the marines, I know that some (not sure about all) have stayed in kirkwood condos.

[Nuthon]

and yes they are #1 Waste/Trash #2 Fires & BBQ’s #3 Safety & Snow removal #4 What can we do to remedy the prior 3 not necessarily in order

#1. Actually providing a convenient trash receptacle in any parking lot may be a start.
#2. Provide an ash can in the same area as the trash bins.
#3. Provide adequate RV/overnight camping spots that are out of the way of snow removal. like maybe the lowest chair 7 lot down by the PUD housing building. Put the spots directly against the bank. It's lack of parking creativity nothing else. Maybe actually pour some nice level RV pads with electrical & septic hook-ups. Charge people for the services. Make money in the summer also. I know mind blowing stuff here huh?

Nobody can tell me they are in our lot 7 days a week as our staff is

.
Wanna bet. I've got more days in those lots than anyone. Guaranteed

It is those nights that the “home-boy” crew pulls in, bust out the BBQ & cooks then leave the coals, beers & pop cans, Mc’y D, Burger King bags, cigarettes butts, with no regard/respect for anyone else

,
See #1. above. Mind still blown?

they don’t move in the morning for the plows (like most of you do) in turn leaving a the little hump of a car with a small cave as a door and “f” the whole system for Mike and the snow removal team

.

Actually, most over-nighters are more than happy to move 1st thing in the morning. The real cause of this problem is the condos. Yes they get 1 underground parking spot but most of the time have 2 or more cars. There is no way to locate the owners as they don't visit their vehicles during the extended stay. Sometime 3-4 days or more they will sit in the same exact spot, while the parking crew is left with not only a mound of snow, but most likely a horrible parking job cause it was done late at night during a storm where they couldn't see how the lot was was configured.

Coop, respect you as a person & your never-die attitude. But these reasons that you keep telling everyone sound like regurgitated marketing cop-outs. Come up with solutions to the problems that are reoccurring. Everyone likes to point the fingers but no one wants to stand up & provide a solution that pleases everyone.

[bodywhomper]

did you mean most would have gone elsewhere most of the time? Or are you saying that the camping historically would have not had an effect on dedicated customers?

As far as the marines, I know that some (not sure about all) have stayed in kirkwood condos.

thanks. that was a typo. here's what i meant:

to repeat what i have said earlier, some of that demographic (those non-bad apples that overnight or used to overnight park in the lots) became valuable employees of kirkwood, and many of their friends have been regular and frequent and dedicated customers at kirkwood for several decades. if not for the former camping policy, most would have been going someplace else most of the time or would have not been going to kirkwood as frequently.