ALERT - Wolf Creek Village Development - McCombs Land Swap with USFS to open road!

[summit]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...e-at-colorados

USFS's EIS shows that swapping land with the Texas billionaire is their preferred option which would guarantee him road access to US160 and road access to Wolf Creek, allowing the 1700 condo development with 221,000sqft of commercial space to be built.

There is now a 45 day comment period: https://cara.ecosystem-management.or...?Project=35945

[adam]

no no no no no no no no NO

[f2f]

i has a sad. pagosa springs is still my preferred retirement option in north amurka. this will ruin my view and make the flats of wolfie less enjoyable.

[Gone Skiing]

Shit, that'll really fuck up our texas visitor-ship here in the Butte

[hawkgt]

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Buster Highmen]

1700 condo development with 221,000sqft of commercial space to be built? How will the road support that?
How does trading this land support the public interest? It supports private interests: the folks who will sell and buy that land, but I fail to see how it can be in the public interest. There's the compromise of water quality at a high aquifer. And the road can't handle that many people, so if the proposal goes through, the road will have to be improved at the publics expense.

I'm all for the expansion of Wolf Creek ski lifts and their plan of shuttling people up the pass. But this one I don't like.

[DasBlunt]

The main issue is uncrowded pow days becoming crowded. Beyond that, the private business' are the public, let' us not forget that.. The road needs improvement anyways , more traffic or not.

[Buster Highmen]

The main issue is uncrowded pow days becoming crowded. Beyond that, the private business' are the public, let' us not forget that.. The road needs improvement anyways , more traffic or not.

Private businesses are not the public. The public can't influence a private business through voting or comment. We're supposed to be able to influence our government by voting and comment. Big difference.
So yeah, it is about the place being more crowded too. But blurring the difference between public and private interests is a red herring. Red McCombs is buying this, make no mistake.

[summit]

Beyond that, the private business' are the public, let' us not forget that..

As Buster said, it is private business attempting to manipulate public expenditures and land for their profit. Red McCombs doesn't exist in a vacuum.

[marshalolson]

The public can't influence a private business through voting or comment. .

vote with your money. and persuade others to vote with their money.

[Buster Highmen]

vote with your money. and persuade others to vote with their money.

Look, lots of people whine about the government. Whining about the government is like whining about your marriage: it will fail.

If there's an opportunity to do something constructive now, like contact your government employees, do so while you still can.

But yeah, after that, you can vote with your money. But the problem with that is a fundamental problem: people with more money have more influence and this is public land we're talking about which is supposed to be influenced on the basis of one person, one vote.

[PowTron]

Well now...that sucks. Still not over yet, fight it.

[flatNshallow]

How does one vote with their money? Bribery? :fm

[rmnpsplitter]

Private businesses are not the public. The public can't influence a private business through voting or comment. We're supposed to be able to influence our government by voting and comment. Big difference.
So yeah, it is about the place being more crowded too. But blurring the difference between public and private interests is a red herring. Red McCombs is buying this, make no mistake.

Have you ever gone to a land use hearing? The public can very much comment and influence decisions on developments like this. Contact the forest service or attend the hearings where the development plans will be or wont be approved. You can make a difference!! Those forest service employees and county commisioners who will have the final vote on the development plans are public servants. Contact them and use their power for good! Or just keep bitching about it on TGR...

[Buster Highmen]

Have you ever gone to a land use hearing?

Yes, several. And several Master Dev Plan meetings

The public can very much comment and influence decisions on developments like this. Contact the forest service or attend the hearings where the development plans will be or wont be approved. You can make a difference!! Those forest service employees and county commisioners who will have the final vote on the development plans are public servants. Contact them and use their power for good!

So what was your point?

Or just keep bitching about it on TGR...

You've clearly missed mine or are just another troll.

[rmnpsplitter]

[QUOTE=Buster Highmen;3716058]
So what was your point?
QUOTE]


My point is that if the general voice of the public is opposed there are things that you can do about it! It sounds like you are all over it though. Not looking to stir the pot but just saying that for a development of this magnitude public input is usually a very deciding factor in what will be approved. That being said if the developer is doing nothing against zoning and his use by right and the forest service is just selling out to provide access then thats another issue. I'm with you that it is totally an uphill battle and with any legal matter usually the side with more money wins. If it goes through at least you will have a nice new road to use

[BrianH]

As Buster said, it is private business attempting to manipulate public expenditures and land for their profit. Red McCombs doesn't exist in a vacuum.

You say that like it's a bad thing, but it's the legitimate business model of most of our largest corporations. American business doesn't create wealth anymore, it just takes a little off the top.

Do Texans like to ski trees? I've not seen a lot, and I bet the powder will still be there. Given how absolutely packed Wolf Creek gets, it's hard to imagine them being able to fund any sort of terrain expansion with the user base they have now.

[capulin overdrive]

Can it be used for parking once they figure out they can't sell very many condos?

[Alpinord]

Can it be used for parking once they figure out they can't sell very many condos?

Or it is discovered that many an out of shape, aging flatlander will find it is difficult to sleep and breath at 10,000 feet.

[covert]

Those forest service employees and county commisioners who will have the final vote on the development plans are public servants. Contact them and use their power for good! Or just keep bitching about it on TGR...

Or you could do both. The first post in this thread has a link to submit comments electronically. Thanks Summit.

Here's some help... Put Up

[La Vaina Ajena]

Don't waste your time submitting comments that equate to a vote. Votes don't count in this process. Submitting substantive comments that challenge the legality of the exchange will be the only thing considered. They know any decision will be challenged, so they'll only consider issues subject to litigation.

[~mikey b]

Summit - good in you for posting this info

Submit comments y'all!

[Rico in Flag]

well that fuckin sucks.
apparently, no one has noticed all the empty/for sale homes in south fork. and south fork is now down to one! gas station. i was surprised as shit to see someone re-opened the hungry logger.
or someone didn't notice all the empty store front in pagosa.
i mean, seriously. if you ever wanted to buy some property in that area, and you have a bit of cash, now's the time. so much is for sale it's insane.
i figure, if a business can't make it in pagosa, it aint gonna make it way up in the pass.
but i guess the forest circus doesn't give a shit whether a business/development is viable, rather, only what is in their best interest. sacrifice the lower east pass area for something else they want.
well, they should give a shit about what a fucked up landscape it's going to create.
just what we need. another mountain village.

(on the other hand; the only people who will really benefit from this will be the local tradesmen and contractors who get in on this. the businesses that go into 221,000(holy shit!) feet of commercial space will never last. but the money always winds up in the tradesmen's hands.)

[Brahmontoya]

The article I read presented the swap as being a lower impact alternative to billionaire dude developing the land he currently owns. Rationale being that he owns land already and has the legal right to develop access aka putting a road through existing USFS land. Per the article's line of reasoning, since billionaire dude owns wetlands/land that has more ecological value than the land he's seeking to swap (AND he can develop whether or not the swap goes through), it COULD make some sense in a lesser of two evils argument for USFS to consent to the transfer. What's not clear about the situation is the difficulty/hurdles associated with billionaire dude developing his current parcel. If there are substantial hurdles or the public/USFS has a good chance of preventing development of billionaire's existing land, then I'd say the article and USFS consent is ill-conceived.

The overall idea seems foolish to put in residential housing in a remote and incredibly inhospitable mtn pass like WC. Never been there but it's always been on my radar as a must ski/see place. Would be a shame for WC's character to be irreversibly impacted by a single individual. gl

[Micol]

The USFS knew a year ago they were doing the deal. Last summer they rented out the big room with the fish bowl at "Bigguns" restaurant and my mole regurgitated the whole sordid story to me. The meeting was basically a strategy session on how they were going to sell the public on this deal. They (usfs) had already decided to do it. Obviously, what you are seeing now is How they decided to do it.

McCumbs will sell condos and WC will change. If you think that a bunch of speculators, flippers, and 2nd home buyers are going to miss out investing in the next "vail" at rock bottom prices you are sadly mistaken. South Fork real estate will rebound as perceived "bargain basement" deals. I know a guy who was in car dealer candidate school with MCombs grandson or nephew and he said "deal done" a year or two back. Would they take Cuchara for free? please!

The owners of the ski area on public forest land will extend the alberta lift to the top of knife ridge and build more lifts. Once that little nugget is complete the entire corridor will be tracked out like any other lift served runs. Currently those few steps from the top of alberta lift to the top of knife ridge are what makes that snow last. Also, once you have 1000+ people living/visiting in the village as retirees or whatever you better believe that everything will be skied out under alberta lift much much faster (and everywhere else). Your WC backcountry will overflow with BCA escape bags and new faces. But, there will be hele skiing !

Any other new lift served terrain will be tracked out quickly. The lack of lodging close by keeps WC off many peoples vacation radar. This will all change once there are ski in ski out options and condo lodging deals. As the dick on the copper forum (now gone) once said, "Them mountains are going to get skied. And, so they will, so they will.

I believe Rocky Mtn Wild has taken over for Colorado Wild fighting all this. If you would like to support
https://givingfirst.org/RMW/overview

Here's what they say
http://rockymountainwild.org/blog/ro...statement-deis

and friend's of WC
http://www.friendsofwolfcreek.org/1/Welcome.html