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  1. #51
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    MiCol-

    Thanks for posting that article, it was a good read. I had the pleasure of getting to talk to Davey a bit this year at one of the master development plan meetings they held. He is definately an interesting guy. The Pritchers are running Wolf Creek right, and it makes me want to support Wolf Creek even more. He started out the presentation stating that it is skier enjoyment, not profits that is the main factor in their buisness.

  2. #52
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    Just back from the USFS meeting regarding WC land swap deal

    Anyone who believes the swap is not going through is out of touch with reality. The developer has his foot in the door with the swap that took place in the 80s. This one will get done. It would take some technicality or political magic to stop this swap. The existing parcel will get ingress/egress to the existing site no matter what. The site will be developed per Mineral County Commissioners control of zoning. Mineral County politicians are going to make a mint on this deal. Overall the size of the Village is looking to be about like Copper Mtn.

    Comments are being taken for about 30 more days. Online comments are encouraged. You can leave comment with your name or without:

    comments-rocky-mountain-rio-grande-divide@fs.fed.us

    please include "Village at Wolf Creek Access Project" on the subject line per usfs request

    or go here:
    https://cara.ecosystem-management.or...?Project=35945

    or contact this person
    Thomas Malecek
    719-657-6007
    tmalecek@fs.fed.us



    The 3rd party contractor rep answered a few questions for me.

    1. What is the current height limitation for the land parcel? "48' (4-5 stories) However that can be extended up with the grant of a variance from Mineral County Commissioners. " (by the way the town of Creed is in Mineral County and has about 500 residents.)

    2. What is the Pitchers stance on this development? says 3rd party contractor guy, "I saw Davey at the Pagosa Springs meeting and asked him where he stood with it, and he said he was OK with it"

    3. Is that a ski school in Purple marked on each of these maps at the top of Wolf Creek Pass? "No, this is going to be a town of 2000 and that is a real school"

    4. He also volunteered the information that the base of Alberta lift sat on McCombs property and that McCombs was letting the Pitchers and wolf Creek borrow that base area currently

    5. Those are two short lifts from condo/residences/hotels over to the alberta lift. wonder if the hamburger shack will stay in place??



    I believe this one is if they get the swap

    I believe this one is if they don't get the swap

    Last edited by MiCol; 08-30-2012 at 10:22 PM.
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    ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....

  3. #53
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    I've been following the development of this proposal for years, and while it really looks like some kind construction is going to happen up there, I just don't see it taking place on the scale they're talking about. Do they really except to be able to sell vacation properties or timeshares at 10,000+ feet adjacent to a small ski area that's harder to access than most resorts in the U.S.? I know you've mentioned airport expansions, but still, Wolf Creek is always going to be a smallish ski area in the middle of nowhere.

    Conversely, do they really think they're going to attract enough permanent residents to build and keep a school going? I think the financial realities of marketing this development (not building it, clearly McCoombs has the coffers to do that) is going to result in a smaller build out than what they're talking about.

    From a purely selfish standpoint, I'd love to own a plot of land on top of Wolf Creek Pass.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiCol View Post
    The existing parcel will get ingress/egress to the existing site no matter what.
    State law guarantees this. There are statutes in place. It basically says reasonable access must be granted. An EA must be provided and the forest service is required to review. Doesn't say how it has to be granted but with the right lawyer and a good chunk of change access will be granted and reasonable access can be pretty loosely defined. Plenty of case law out there on this topic.

  5. #55
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    unless some sort of development plans have been officially submitted to the County or USFS can make some sort of conditions stipulated in its swap (not a likely scenario), those development scenarios, including a permanent school, can all be smoke and mirrors.

  6. #56
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    Not sure if this is anything different from the past, but it looks like this announcement triggers another 45-day comment period....

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...creek-ski-area

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by soups818 View Post
    Not sure if this is anything different from the past, but it looks like this announcement triggers another 45-day comment period....

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...creek-ski-area
    That most certainly is news.

    I just skimmed through the notice of decision. Whereas the previous documents were the deciding phase, this document is the final decision from the FS that the land swap is approved and will be happening. The new 45 day period is not a public comment period, it is an "objection period."

    Quote Originally Posted by USFS Record of Decision
    Objections will only be accepted from those who have previously submitted specific written comments regarding the proposed project during scoping or other designated opportunity for public comment in accordance with §218.5(a). Issues raised in objections must be based on previously submitted timely, specific written comments regarding the proposed project unless based on new information arising after designated comment opportunities.
    I would say that it is extremely unlikely that any about of objections will change the USFS position here. The development is not a done deal, however, until Mineral County approves the development plans, and that is where public comments should go to have the most impact at this point.

  8. #58
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    Mineral can refuse, and there will be massive campaign donations, intrigue and lawsuits until approval is bought or forced.

    What if wolf creek won't allow access from the development and tried to ban buses from the village from droipping off at the base? I don't know if they would try that ... Obviously more lawsuits then
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  9. #59
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    Judge blocks land swap
    http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/19...eek-land-swap/




    Sent from my SM-G950U using TGR Forums mobile app

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by This End Up View Post
    Judge blocks land swap
    http://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/19...eek-land-swap/




    Sent from my SM-G950U using TGR Forums mobile app
    This story is from 3 months ago, but thanks for reminding us.
    The Sheriff is near!

  11. #61
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    Nov 2007
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    this mofo is stopped dead.......





















































































    for the moment......
    www.freeridesystems.com
    ski & ride jackets made in colorado
    maggot discount code TGR20
    ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....

  12. #62
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    and now it's not.....(just received this email):


    "The Forest Service intends to give the Village of Wolf Creek road access.

    The Rio Grande National Forest announced its intention on July 19 to circumvent a federal court ruling that invalidated prior approvals for the controversial Village at Wolf Creek real estate development.

    As you know, a Colorado federal district court set aside the Forest Service's approval of a land exchange to facilitate the development in May of last year. "The Forest Service cannot abdicate its responsibility to protect the forest by making an attempt at an artful dodge," the court declared. Now, the Forest Service hopes to use the same artfully dodged analysis, previously deemed in violation of multiple federal laws, to approve a different means of providing the developers access.

    "We anticipated backroom pressure to bend to the billionaire's demands, hence over 2,300 people recently contacted Rio Grande National Forest Supervisor Dan Dallas encouraging him to stand up for the public interest," said Tehri Parker, Executive Director. "We are disappointed he chose the wishes of a Texas developer over local forest protection advocates."

    Read our full press release about this revelation.
    The Forest Service is limiting objections.

    The Forest Service is also trying to severely limit who can comment on this action by limiting objections to those who "previously submitted specific written comments regarding the proposed project during scoping or comments on the draft EIS" in 2012.

    If you did comment during the scoping or comment periods on the draft EIS in 2012, you can submit an objection here.

    We believe that everyone should have the opportunity to comment on changes to their public lands.

    What we are doing and what you can do:

    We have already filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to see how the Forest Service came to their decision. We will share what we find. Our legal team is also preparing an objection to the decision.

    Even though the Forest Service has said that it will not consider objections from those who did not comment during the scoping and comment periods, we are encouraging you to object anyway. Our partners at San Juan Citizens Alliance are working to put together talking points for your comments, which we will send out as soon as they are ready. We will be arranging at least one comment writing party to help people who need help forming their objections.

    News articles:

    "Forest Service gives Village at Wolf Creek road access" The Durango Herald, July 19
    "Forest Service plans to grant access to Wolf Creek complex" US News & World Report, July 19
    "Village at Wolf Creek releases statement regarding new forest draft decision" The Pagosa Springs SUN, July 20
    "Draft Forest Service Decision Once Again Designates 'Village' Access Atop Wolf Creek Pass" Pagosa Daily Post, July 20
    "New leadership at EPA, same rollbacks" The Durango Herald, July 21

    Thank you for supporting the fight to keep Wolf Creek Pass wild! Stay tuned for further action.
    #NoPillage



    P.S. If you want to follow Friends of Wolf Creek on social media, we do have a Facebook page and a Twitter account, which has up-to-date information from all Friends of Wolf Creek partners.
    P.S.S. Consider making a donation to the Friends of Wolf Creek. Select "Friends of Wolf Creek" in the "Direct My Donation" drop-down."
    www.freeridesystems.com
    ski & ride jackets made in colorado
    maggot discount code TGR20
    ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....

  13. #63
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    1700 condo development with 221,000sqft of commercial space to be built? How will the road support that?
    If this is the plan, it will fail before it gets off the ground. Most tourons wanting to rent a ski condo want a large area with a lot of grooming - i.e. they don't GAF that WC gets such huge storms. WC is not that, will never be that, and can't, as far as I can see, ever expand to be that.

    The 1,000 ft. skyscraper that's supposed to be built in the middle of downtown Denver keeps getting pushed back, because no one can figure out what to do with all that space. Doubling the residential capacity of Pagosa overnight is even less likely to come to fruition, I think.

    It would be a disaster for the local culture though. Everybody take a chill pill, but do attend land use mtgs, etc, cuz you never know.

  14. #64
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    Who wants to check how much mccombs donated to trump?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  15. #65
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    Paradise
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    5,197
    Oh it's happening.....
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  16. #66
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    Just as the market slows down.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiCol View Post
    and now it's not.....(just received this email):


    "The Forest Service intends to give the Village of Wolf Creek road access.

    The Rio Grande National Forest announced its intention on July 19 to circumvent a federal court ruling that invalidated prior approvals for the controversial Village at Wolf Creek real estate development.

    As you know, a Colorado federal district court set aside the Forest Service's approval of a land exchange to facilitate the development in May of last year. "The Forest Service cannot abdicate its responsibility to protect the forest by making an attempt at an artful dodge," the court declared. Now, the Forest Service hopes to use the same artfully dodged analysis, previously deemed in violation of multiple federal laws, to approve a different means of providing the developers access.

    "We anticipated backroom pressure to bend to the billionaire's demands, hence over 2,300 people recently contacted Rio Grande National Forest Supervisor Dan Dallas encouraging him to stand up for the public interest," said Tehri Parker, Executive Director. "We are disappointed he chose the wishes of a Texas developer over local forest protection advocates."

    Read our full press release about this revelation.
    The Forest Service is limiting objections.

    The Forest Service is also trying to severely limit who can comment on this action by limiting objections to those who "previously submitted specific written comments regarding the proposed project during scoping or comments on the draft EIS" in 2012.

    If you did comment during the scoping or comment periods on the draft EIS in 2012, you can submit an objection here.

    We believe that everyone should have the opportunity to comment on changes to their public lands.

    What we are doing and what you can do:

    We have already filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to see how the Forest Service came to their decision. We will share what we find. Our legal team is also preparing an objection to the decision.

    Even though the Forest Service has said that it will not consider objections from those who did not comment during the scoping and comment periods, we are encouraging you to object anyway. Our partners at San Juan Citizens Alliance are working to put together talking points for your comments, which we will send out as soon as they are ready. We will be arranging at least one comment writing party to help people who need help forming their objections.

    News articles:

    "Forest Service gives Village at Wolf Creek road access" The Durango Herald, July 19
    "Forest Service plans to grant access to Wolf Creek complex" US News & World Report, July 19
    "Village at Wolf Creek releases statement regarding new forest draft decision" The Pagosa Springs SUN, July 20
    "Draft Forest Service Decision Once Again Designates 'Village' Access Atop Wolf Creek Pass" Pagosa Daily Post, July 20
    "New leadership at EPA, same rollbacks" The Durango Herald, July 21

    Thank you for supporting the fight to keep Wolf Creek Pass wild! Stay tuned for further action.
    #NoPillage



    P.S. If you want to follow Friends of Wolf Creek on social media, we do have a Facebook page and a Twitter account, which has up-to-date information from all Friends of Wolf Creek partners.
    P.S.S. Consider making a donation to the Friends of Wolf Creek. Select "Friends of Wolf Creek" in the "Direct My Donation" drop-down."
    Can you post the link to submit an objection please?

  18. #68
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    Apr 2004
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    cordova,AK
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    wow that sucks. looking at MiCol's drawings they are proposing coming off 160 with a new road. That can be a hurdle that throws them into the next economic slow down. But like davey said in the article fighting billionaires is a different beast. They don't like to lose
    off your knees Louie

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Can you post the link to submit an objection please?
    I think these work, it is coming from email in gmail account and not sure why all the google crap is in front of actual link....but.....they seem to work

    Rocky Mtn Wild site
    https://www.google.com/url?hl=en&q=h...STKpUGBO68nghg

    Object here:
    https://www.google.com/url?hl=en&q=h...BJQDT1vVPSHoFg
    www.freeridesystems.com
    ski & ride jackets made in colorado
    maggot discount code TGR20
    ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    wow that sucks. looking at MiCol's drawings they are proposing coming off 160 with a new road. That can be a hurdle that throws them into the next economic slow down. But like davey said in the article fighting billionaires is a different beast. They don't like to lose
    it never seems to stop. I think ultra rich know they will win eventually. Any ordinary person/homeowner going for a variance or something to build a deck would quit after the first time being told "no" and $5000 lawyer and engineer fees and loss of income skipping work to attend meetings

    imho if this goes through, wolf creek will never ski the same in terms of powder conservation , crowds, carbon emissions, pollution, human footprint, unique ski experience (unlike virtually any i-70 resort). WC is a very unique experience and will forever change with a base of skiers that are camped out at the base in mass....

    its hard to see the WC ownership really being against this as they are currently $11 mil annual operation making like 20% , so what if they could make 20% on $20 mil? I know its a business and I am pro business. but this type of business being allowed to operate is supposed to balance the environment and public use. It seems to do a great job of that right now as the place does not seem like a resort or bring in a high traffic count (i.e. emissions). The experience will change with the addition of the pillage "village" then WC will be no different than any i-70 ski area
    Last edited by MiCol; 07-27-2018 at 01:02 PM.
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    ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....

  21. #71
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    Nov 2007
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    new email in from FOWC just came in....talking points and where to object snail mail, email, etc links

    https://www.google.com/url?hl=en&q=h...8inR8ksngByong
    www.freeridesystems.com
    ski & ride jackets made in colorado
    maggot discount code TGR20
    ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....

  22. #72
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    Frantically crawling out of the backseat
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    I've been skiing Wolf for over 12 years now and have been following this asshole's moves since the beginning. But, I haven't heard what the locals think of the Pillage. Any P Springs or SF natives/townies here want to chime in and educate me?

  23. #73
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    Apr 2004
    Location
    cordova,AK
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    PM Benny
    off your knees Louie

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    2,480
    Quote Originally Posted by CS2-6 View Post
    I've been skiing Wolf for over 12 years now and have been following this asshole's moves since the beginning. But, I haven't heard what the locals think of the Pillage. Any P Springs or SF natives/townies here want to chime in and educate me?
    View of new chair from McCombs property. It's ski-out accessible.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  25. #75
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    So the access just got approved by some local usfs lady, which somehow overrides the federal judge ruling, better hike and ski that shit like it’s never gonna be the same, cause......just sayin
    www.freeridesystems.com
    ski & ride jackets made in colorado
    maggot discount code TGR20
    ok we'll come up with a solution by then makers....

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