Brother has gone off the rails: how do I get him to seek help?

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-16-2017, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by KQ

I'm so sorry Flyover. Alcohol is the devil. Lost my best friend to it. I hope you have a better outcome.

Thanks KQ, I appreciate your input. I’m doing what I can, but he’s 400 miles away. All I can do is talk to him and hope he acts on my advice. More details tomorrow...

**wildmanwillie** · 11-16-2017, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by AaronWright

The irony is that they use benzos to treat symptom of alcohol withdrawal.

It's not ironic at all actually. Alcohol and benzos both act on GABAA receptors. Benzos are used to wean off the GABAA receptors. Benzos act on GABAA minimizing withdrawal symptoms and preventing life threatening complications. Reduce dosing until there are no longer withdrawal symptoms.

**old goat** · 11-17-2017, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by AaronWright

The irony is that they use benzos to treat symptom of alcohol withdrawal.

They've been known to use an alcohol drip. Either way, it's tapered off gradually, not stopped suddenly. (Of course you know this; this is for the benefit of all the alcoholics here.) Back in the day we used chloral hydrate. My pharmacology professor used to call benzo's "alcohol in pill form".

**wildmanwillie** · 11-17-2017, 02:24 AM

Originally Posted by old goat

They've been known to use an alcohol drip.

This has been shown to be inferior to a benzo based approach. Difficult withdrawals get a Precedex drip adjunctive to benzo based treatment.

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-17-2017, 02:39 AM

Jesus fucking Christ... an email from my sister tonight.

[IMG]

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-17-2017, 02:42 AM

Does alcohol induce schizophrenia or other dissociative mental shit? Or does it work in reverse? Grasping at straws here.

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-17-2017, 02:54 AM

And AK Rover, I agree with you; there’s a rotten core somewhere deep that his drinking helps him ignore. He has no insurance, and likely never will, so professional help is out; I’ve found free treatment programs in Reno (via Salvation Army), but he refuses to go; there’s no way he’s paying for hypnotherapy.

**iceman** · 11-17-2017, 07:46 AM

Yeah alchohol probably wouldn't induce schizophrenia per se but it can and does cause psychosis so it's kind of splitting hairs in a way I guess because somebody who's not a doc would have a hard time telling the difference.

Often people who've been drinking a ton for a really long time just don't see a way out and can possibly recover if somehow they can be forced to take a break (and they don't die from stopping). Somehow forcing him into an institution is probably the best bet. It wouldn't be easy to do and he'd probably hate you for it but it might save his life.

**54-46** · 11-17-2017, 03:25 PM

So sorry to read this. Vibes

I lost a good childhood friend last year - drank himself to death at age 53. My skiing buddy, a psychologist, also lost his 48-year old brother to alcohol/depression 2 years ago.

Others have raised this, but brother likely has at least 2-3 issues that I can see:

- perhaps bi-polar
- depression
- alcohol

At this point, your family needs to go full alert/full court press or you're going to lose him.

Good luck.

**SkiBall** · 11-17-2017, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by detrusor

Otherwise you’re just a “sober drunk” which can be worse from a destructive standpoint.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Actually, it is usually referred to as a dry drunk...and yeah, a lot of misery involved there.
Sober/sobriety is the goal in which you face your shit. But without willingness, it is generally a losing battle. Involuntary commitment MIGHT get him safe and weaned off the scary stuff if he is unwilling and bad enough. I have seen a couple people "wake up" in IC. But could just anger him more-he'll be really pissed at first regardless. Unless he finds some willingness to face it, it is generally a losing battle. As stated above, people die from this. See obits often that never tell of the reason but I have known that was the cause, so it is often under-reported except those close to them. Not trying to scare, just the reality. There truly is a solution though. I have seen it work in all that are willing. But that is the crux.
Hope he gets sick and tired of being sick and tired. And enabling him just delays the possibility.

**SkiBall** · 11-17-2017, 04:45 PM

"There are those, too, with grave and emotional disorders, but many of them do recover if the have the capacity to be honest."

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-17-2017, 04:51 PM

Good insights, folks; thanks.

His main problem, in my opinion, is depression. He's an over-thinker; his mind is always spinning. ADHD? Maybe. He is always concentrating on the dark side of life (always has), and he obsesses over shit he has no control over, like war/killing/etc. He works himself into a very dark place, then drinks to numb it. To add to the mess, he thinks he has psychic powers, and can "feel" all the evil in the world. As my wife put it, "A total goth-kid emo pussy. Suck it up."

He's been avoiding us for the last couple of days, so maybe he's doing some thinking. If he's gone over the edge, his GF will let us know, so silence could be a good sign. Blood test results should be back in a week or two; we'll know more then.

**Whiteroom_Guardian** · 11-17-2017, 05:05 PM

OP, he is in serious denial and apparently experiencing drug/alcohol induced psychosis.

At this advanced stage an intervention is probably the only hope. He has lost all ability to think for himself really.

As others have said the booze is just a symptom of his problem. HE is the problem. Us drunks almost ALWAYS are severely depressed or have some other sort of mental illness. He needs to seriously dry out. Sometimes it takes 60-90 days of being dry before someone can see whats really going on with their thinking and face their demons.

Without insurance it's hard, but not impossible to get him into detox > treatment. This is assuming he is willing to go (after a face to face family style intervention).

**4matic** · 11-17-2017, 06:57 PM

Has he ever been arrested? If he hasn’t a night in jail might wake him up. He might even get some help.

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-17-2017, 07:03 PM

He’s never been arrested. But he drives 4 days a week without a license, probably buzzed, so it’s just a matter of time.

**TBS** · 11-17-2017, 07:26 PM

Feel for ya mang. Wish I had something
Why doncha come skiing with us tomorrow?

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-17-2017, 07:28 PM

Tempted, but a friend just had a baby, and I promised I’d winterize her beehives for her. Lol

**TBS** · 11-17-2017, 07:30 PM

Dude you can do that on Sunday.
"pssst, F, I need you to ride me, hard!"
That's your skis talking

**wyeaster** · 11-17-2017, 07:30 PM

i don't recommend time with law enforcement for any reason. a clean record, as deceiving as that may be, is a big deal and if he can turn his shit around it will be one less big hole to dig out of.

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-17-2017, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by TBS

Dude you can do that on Sunday.
"pssst, F, I need you to ride me, hard!"
That's your skis talking

Soon, horny skis; soon...

**Flyoverland Captive** · 11-17-2017, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by wyeaster

i don't recommend time with law enforcement for any reason. a clean record, as deceiving as that may be, is a big deal and if he can turn his shit around it will be one less big hole to dig out of.

Yeah, I agree. Gotta cut that possibility off.

**Grape_Ape** · 11-17-2017, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

OP, he is in serious denial and apparently experiencing drug/alcohol induced psychosis.

At this advanced stage an intervention is probably the only hope. He has lost all ability to think for himself really.

As others have said the booze is just a symptom of his problem. HE is the problem. Us drunks almost ALWAYS are severely depressed or have some other sort of mental illness. He needs to seriously dry out. Sometimes it takes 60-90 days of being dry before someone can see whats really going on with their thinking and face their demons.

Without insurance it's hard, but not impossible to get him into detox > treatment. This is assuming he is willing to go (after a face to face family style intervention).

This.

**Alaskan Rover** · 11-18-2017, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Flyoverland Captive

And AK Rover, I agree with you; there’s a rotten core somewhere deep that his drinking helps him ignore. He has no insurance, and likely never will, so professional help is out; I’ve found free treatment programs in Reno (via Salvation Army), but he refuses to go; there’s no way he’s paying for hypnotherapy.

I might simply be presuming, as I don't know your brother....but it might not be a rotten core. It may be a beautiful core, full of potential and a child-like hope. It may be a beautiful core covered by layers of pain and self-doubt.

I don't really have any magic ways of peeling back those layers....but I do feel that is where the answer truly lies.

There are actually a lot of professionals who donate their time to volunteer programs and efforts on the sidelines of their professions. Once I'm released from the hospital, I will have a bit of time at home....I can look up a few programs that may (or may not be) be in the Reno area. But like anything short of civil commitment, HE would need to want to take that first step, and sometimes that is the aggravatingly hardest step of all.

Best of luck to him, to you and your parents. He has people who give a shit about him and he probably doesn't even see it that way. And his GF, functional stoner or not, enabler or not, seems a grounding force in his life, and right now that is a good thing.

He might be in the rabbit hole, but for the time being, his legs are still sticking out...he just needs someone to grab on and pull.

Good luck, man.

**Grape_Ape** · 11-18-2017, 09:17 AM

So this thread has reminded me of how fortunate I am to have sobriety. I also deal with depression and I used alcohol and drugs to numb the pain. It worked until it didn't. Your brother's life experiences gave me a glimpse of what my life could be today if I didn't quit almost 8 years ago.

So, I go to AA. I have heard tens of thousands of stories of how people found the rooms and sobriety. A decent percentage of those people were forced into the rooms either by way of court-order or a family intervention. The addict may not want to begin a treatment process, but sometimes it sticks and sometimes it takes 2, 3 or 4 times in rehab for the realization to hit. I started going to AA to save a marriage - just to stop drinking for a bit to show my ex that I had my shit together. 6 months of sobriety later I realized she wasn't coming back and I had a choice to make. I remember the day clearly. I was on my back porch and said to myself "fuck it. She's not coming back. I might as well get a sixer of strong ale". Then I thought that that wasn't enough and that I needed a fifth of whiskey. Then the light bulb went off: normal people don't drink like this. They don't act like this. I need to stay sober for ME.

Everyone's story is different. Sometimes you have to get your foot in the door of recovery to give it a chance. I hope it's not too late for your bro. It sounds like he may have some mental issues. I hope it's not wet brain. Needless to say, it's imperative IMO to take action ASAP. If he is having DT's, then he's pretty advanced and his disease is taking a hold of his body. Good luck. PM me if you need someone to talk to.

ETA: it also seems that your brother is internalizing the bullshit that the world offers us, i.e. trump, war, mass shootings, homelessness, spineless white supremicists, etc. The rooms of AA offer a small respite where you can stop feeling alone and start feeling love. Others struggle with the same shit and we are all in the same boat. We exist to help others. I know that it's "attraction rather than promotion" with AA, but I can't say enough about how this program has saved millions of lives. And AA gets to the inner part of that onion through the steps.