Brother has gone off the rails: how do I get him to seek help?

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Flyover, would your brother qualify for medicaid? Seems like he would if he's not really working. That would give him the HC he needs to get into a detox program.

I have a friend and former roommate that almost drank himself into the grave. It was frightening and I was very naive and Ill-prepared as it unfolded in front of me. He tried to hide it from everyone, locking himself in his room for entire days.

Luckily he got a 3rd DWI, (as discussed, I don't recommend involving Leo) and he got sent back to rehab and out-patient care and has been 5 years sober now.

Good luck, and positive vibes to you and your family

[axebiker]

His main problem, in my opinion, is depression. He's an over-thinker; his mind is always spinning. ADHD? Maybe. He is always concentrating on the dark side of life (always has), and he obsesses over shit he has no control over, like war/killing/etc. He works himself into a very dark place, then drinks to numb it. To add to the mess, he thinks he has psychic powers, and can "feel" all the evil in the world. As my wife put it, "A total goth-kid emo pussy. Suck it up.".

As a survivor of anxiety disorder with a wife with depression, some of what I've read sounds a lot like some of the things we worked through.

You don't just "suck it up"...it is always there and doesn't go away. You can't think your way out of it, and alcohol helps to numb it. The job thing? He's afraid of being away from his safe spot. I wasn't quite to his level, but I see & feel familiar behavior & pain.

If that's what the deal is, medication is a life saver; it was for both of us. It takes time, and might take a few tries, but its real. Seems everyone's answer around here is always weed...in this case, it isn't.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

So this thread has reminded me of how fortunate I am to have sobriety. I also deal with depression and I used alcohol and drugs to numb the pain. It worked until it didn't. Your brother's life experiences gave me a glimpse of what my life could be today if I didn't quit almost 8 years ago.

So, I go to AA. I have heard tens of thousands of stories of how people found the rooms and sobriety. A decent percentage of those people were forced into the rooms either by way of court-order or a family intervention. The addict may not want to begin a treatment process, but sometimes it sticks and sometimes it takes 2, 3 or 4 times in rehab for the realization to hit. I started going to AA to save a marriage - just to stop drinking for a bit to show my ex that I had my shit together. 6 months of sobriety later I realized she wasn't coming back and I had a choice to make. I remember the day clearly. I was on my back porch and said to myself "fuck it. She's not coming back. I might as well get a sixer of strong ale". Then I thought that that wasn't enough and that I needed a fifth of whiskey. Then the light bulb went off: normal people don't drink like this. They don't act like this. I need to stay sober for ME.

Everyone's story is different. Sometimes you have to get your foot in the door of recovery to give it a chance. I hope it's not too late for your bro. It sounds like he may have some mental issues. I hope it's not wet brain. Needless to say, it's imperative IMO to take action ASAP. If he is having DT's, then he's pretty advanced and his disease is taking a hold of his body. Good luck. PM me if you need someone to talk to.

ETA: it also seems that your brother is internalizing the bullshit that the world offers us, i.e. trump, war, mass shootings, homelessness, spineless white supremicists, etc. The rooms of AA offer a small respite where you can stop feeling alone and start feeling love. Others struggle with the same shit and we are all in the same boat. We exist to help others. I know that it's "attraction rather than promotion" with AA, but I can't say enough about how this program has saved millions of lives. And AA gets to the inner part of that onion through the steps.

^^^^

Yup. I'm approaching 7 years. Nearly killed myself with the bottle. Drank to numb like millions before and after me.

Edit to add: This sobriety thing only worked because I did it 100% for ME. Like Grape_Ape said. I didn't do it because it looked good for court, or because my parents were scared for my life, etc. Those were great reasons, but it only really worked because in my core I didn't want to live that way anymore.


OP, we can help only so much through the computer. This is LIFE AND DEATH shit here. It's a harsh reality.

Just pretend he has stage 4 brain cancer and has lost all ability to care for himself. You figure out the bills later when its family. You put differences aside and you take vacation if need be and get to Reno with the family and give him a chance to save his own life. It's that simple.

If he refuses help, you have to cut him out entirely. No communication from anyone in the family. Certainly no money. Let him find his own bottom and hopefully he lives through it.

[Alaskan Rover]

So this thread has reminded me of how fortunate I am to have sobriety. I also deal with depression and I used alcohol and drugs to numb the pain. It worked until it didn't. Your brother's life experiences gave me a glimpse of what my life could be today if I didn't quit almost 8 years ago.

So, I go to AA. I have heard tens of thousands of stories of how people found the rooms and sobriety. A decent percentage of those people were forced into the rooms either by way of court-order or a family intervention. The addict may not want to begin a treatment process, but sometimes it sticks and sometimes it takes 2, 3 or 4 times in rehab for the realization to hit. I started going to AA to save a marriage - just to stop drinking for a bit to show my ex that I had my shit together. 6 months of sobriety later I realized she wasn't coming back and I had a choice to make. I remember the day clearly. I was on my back porch and said to myself "fuck it. She's not coming back. I might as well get a sixer of strong ale". Then I thought that that wasn't enough and that I needed a fifth of whiskey. Then the light bulb went off: normal people don't drinking like this. They don't act like this. I need to stay sober for ME.

Everyone's story is different. Sometimes you have to get your foot in the door of recovery to give it a chance. I hope it's not too late for your bro. It sounds like he may have some mental issues. I hope it's not wet brain. Needless to say, it's imperative IMO to take action ASAP. If he is having DT's, then he's pretty advanced and his disease is taking a hold of his body. Good luck. PM me if you need someone to talk to.

ETA: it also seems that your brother is internalizing the bullshit that the world offers us, i.e. trump, war, mass shootings, homelessness, spineless white supremicists, etc. The rooms of AA offer a small respite where you can stop feeling alone and start feeling love. Others struggle with the same shit and we are all in the same boat. We exist to help others. I know that it's "attraction rather than promotion" with AA, but I can't say enough about how this program has saved millions of lives. And AA gets to the inner part of that onion through the steps.

Straight dope, Grape_Ape! 5/5

I think witnessing my dad consume himself with alcohol while we were growing up gave me a distaste for over-use. Nothing like having to check to see if your dad, a high-level, first tier auto executive, wasn't sprawled on the nice oak flooring of the breakfast nook (his primary drinking place) before I invited my friends over. Eventually, I stopped caring about them seeing my dad on the floor most weekend nights, and we would tip-toe past the sleeping form on the floor on our way to my room or the game room, as if dads passed out on kitchen floors were somehow normal. But kids are resilient....at least that's what people like to think....even though it's a fucking lie.

I used to do the recycling in our house....separating out the glass, the aluminum, etc...that task gave me a real window on just how much my dad would drink:.

1 week:.

18 - 20 bottles of various reds. That number stuck in my head...because I also recycled the cardboard, and every week there would always be one or two wine cases...one, one week...two, the next week...1.5 case per week average.

Or when on the hard stuff: 5 or 6 fifths of gin, a few vermouths....eventually the vermouth dropped off when he found a quicker high drinking the gin straight...in tumblers, like one drinks water. Five fifths a week...sometimes more. He approached drinking like it was a JOB, and I guess in a way it was.

In the summer, he liked to switch to beer. Prodigious, liver-killing amounts of it. I just remember that I would make quite a bit of early teenage coin by collecting them in leaf bags and taking them to get redeemed.

Isn't that hilarious? People spend their whole lives trying to get redeemed, yet you can redeem hundreds of cans of former "devil's juice" in a couple minutes. A strange calculus there. Anyway, you're interested in numbers....so I'd estimate between 100 to 150 cans a week...because I would pocket between $5 and $7.50 a week...usually closer to $7 (at 5 cents a can)

Sometimes my Mom would rise up against his slow suicide and hide or throw out every bottle of alchol in the house...and warn my dad that if he bought more, she would take us kids and leave. I remember once, we forgot to hide the Vanilla extract, and he drank that.

I honestly don't know how in hell he kept his job during those times...he was drinking 7 nights a week by then...but he was so high up that there wasn't really anybody who could fire him and he had friends in equally high places. He showed up to work each morning looking like the handsome, dapper, high-grade auto executive he was...and I sort of think he became his own marionette... alchol pulling the strings.

Could have been a whole lot worse, though. Could have been a nasty, physically abusive drunk. A lot of people think that if he isn't that kind of a drunk, if he is instead a sweet, philosophical, debonair, well-mannered drunk, that things are somehow better...and I guess they're right to some extent...I DID love those 2 am chats about philosophy and physics with my nearly blotto dad....but the harm to families is done in ways not readily apparent.

They say alcoholism runs in families...well oddly enough, none of us three kids became alcoholics by any stretch of the definition. And none of us are teetotalers. We each can and do drink socially...being able to enjoy a good ale or wine...but have the ability to cap it at one or two. Each of us had wild, booze-infused parties in college...and did the ridiculous college drinking thing...but the bottle never captured us. I guess we all got lucky.
Now each of us can meet together for a dinner, drink in moderation, actually enjoy THE TASTE of a good ale or smooth Chardonnay....and not feel compulsion to imbibe.

Myself...I couldn't care less if I never had another drink in my life...wouldn't phase me. I would rather drink ice water or juice or milk any day of the week than that shit. I feel so bad for people who need to know when and where there next drink is coming from.

My main reason for writing this long blog is just to point out that if you have a problem with alcohol, if you can't change for you...then at the very least try to do it for your family....for your kids....because it doesn't just affect you, not by a long shot. I'll be remembering those visions of my Dad passed out on the kitchen floor for a long time...but it could be worse. Don't do that to your kids...life is worth far more than that.

[Grape_Ape]

As a survivor of anxiety disorder with a wife with depression, some of what I've read sounds a lot like some of the things we worked through.

You don't just "suck it up"...it is always there and doesn't go away. You can't think your way out of it, and alcohol helps to numb it. The job thing? He's afraid of being away from his safe spot. I wasn't quite to his level, but I see & feel familiar behavior & pain.

If that's what the deal is, medication is a life saver; it was for both of us. It takes time, and might take a few tries, but its real. Seems everyone's answer around here is always weed...in this case, it isn't.

This is good to hear because I stupidly changed my anti-depressant med (due to a fucked up relationship I was in) and I have been trying to figure out the right med and dose for over a year and a half now. Depression/anxiety is a real thing and it's not just because we are "sad" and we should "snap out of it". It is a fucked up chemical thing in our brains. I just wish the meds were less trial and error and more exacting. If I were a researcher I would focus on this.

Anyway, the OP's bro needs to get clean and sober first before he figures out any medicines (IMO). I echo everything the guardian has said thus far too.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Also OP: al-anon.org

[Grape_Ape]

Straight dope, Grape_Ape! 5/5

I think witnessing my dad consume himself with alcohol while we were growing up gave me a distaste for over-use. Nothing like having to check to see if your dad, a high-level, first tier auto executive, wasn't sprawled on the nice oak flooring of the breakfast nook (his primary drinking place) before I invited my friends over. Eventually, I stopped caring about them seeing my dad on the floor most weekend nights, and we would tip-toe past the sleeping form on the floor on our way to my room or the game room, as if dads passed out on kitchen floors were somehow normal. But kids are resilient....at least that's what people like to think....even though it's a fucking lie.

I used to do the recycling in our house....separating out the glass, the aluminum, etc...that task gave me a real window on just how much my dad would drink:.

1 week:.

18 - 20 bottles of various reds. That number stuck in my head...because I also recycled the cardboard, and every week there would always be one or two wine cases...one, one week...two, the next week...1.5 case per week average.

Or when on the hard stuff: 5 or 6 fifths of gin, a few vermouths....eventually the vermouth dropped off when he found a quicker high drinking the gin straight...in tumblers, like one drinks water. Five fifths a week...sometimes more. He approached drinking like it was a JOB, and I guess in a way it was.

In the summer, he liked to switch to beer. Prodigious, liver-killing amounts of it. I just remember that I would make quite a bit of early teenage coin by collecting them in leaf bags and taking them to get redeemed.

Isn't that hilarious? People spend their whole lives trying to get redeemed, yet you can redeem hundreds of cans of former "devil's juice" in a couple minutes. A strange calculus there. Anyway, you're interested in numbers....so I'd estimate between 100 to 150 cans a week...because I would pocket between $5 and $7.50 a week...usually closer to $7 (at 5 cents a can)

Sometimes my Mom would rise up against his slow suicide and hide or throw out every bottle of alchol in the house...and warn my dad that if he bought more, she would take us kids and leave. I remember once, we forgot to hide the Vanilla extract, and he drank that.

I honestly don't know how in hell he kept his job during those times...he was drinking 7 nights a week by then...but he was so high up that there wasn't really anybody who could fire him and he had friends in equally high places. He showed up to work each morning looking like the handsome, dapper, high-grade auto executive he was...and I sort of think he became his own marionette... alchol pulling the strings.

Could have been a whole lot worse, though. Could have been a nasty, physically abusive drunk. A lot of people think that if he isn't that kind of a drunk, if he is instead a sweet, philosophical, debonair, well-mannered drunk, that things are somehow better...and I guess they're right to some extent...I DID love those 2 am chats about philosophy and physics with my nearly blotto dad....but the harm to families is done in ways not readily apparent.

They say alcoholism runs in families...well oddly enough, none of us three kids became alcoholics by any stretch of the definition. And none of us are teetotalers. We each can and do drink socially...being able to enjoy a good ale or wine...but have the ability to cap it at one or two. Each of us had wild, booze-infused parties in college...and did the ridiculous college drinking thing...but the bottle never captured us. I guess we all got lucky.
Now each of us can meet together for a dinner, drink in moderation, actually enjoy THE TASTE of a good ale or smooth Chardonnay....and not feel compulsion to imbibe.

Myself...I couldn't care less if I never had another drink in my life...wouldn't phase me. I would rather drink ice water or juice or milk any day of the week than that shit. I feel so bad for people who need to know when and where there next drink is coming from.

My main reason for writing this long blog is just to point out that if you have a problem with alcohol, if you can't change for you...then at the very least try to do it for your family....for your kids....because it doesn't just affect you, not by a long shot. I'll be remembering those visions of my Dad passed out on the kitchen floor for a long time...but it could be worse. Don't do that to your kids...life is worth far more than that.

Yeah...my situation was a grandmother and brother who struggled with the disease. My dad and mom were straight arrow but the damage done to me (youngest of 7) was enough just witnessing the abusive behavior from those 2 family members.

One of the main reasons I stay sober is my boys, aged 13 and 12 now. They are my life. I worry about them growing up with this disease but you never know what the hell's gonna happen as evidenced by your story AK.

[SkiBall]

I have heard it skips generations. My grandfather was recovered though he died before I was old enough to know him.

[abraham]

I don't have any advice, I lived with a roommate who was extremely self destructive and never could help. I ended up moving out. A few years later I met up with him and he was sober, went back to being religious, and all that. Seemed reasonably put together. He told me it was possible that was the first time I'd seen him completely sober.

Myself...I couldn't care less if I never had another drink in my life...wouldn't phase me. I would rather drink ice water or juice or milk any day of the week than that shit.

What happened to your OJ compulsion?

[Alaskan Rover]

I have heard it skips generations. My grandfather was recovered though he died before I was old enough to know him.

Hmm...maybe so. Because my father's father was pretty much an extremely light drinker, maybe even a non-drinker...he always reminded me kind of like a Quaker.

[iceman]

Avoiding the OJ question I see.

[Alaskan Rover]

I don't have any advice, I lived with a roommate who was extremely self destructive and never could help. I ended up moving out. A few years later I met up with him and he was sober, went back to being religious, and all that. Seemed reasonably put together. He told me it was possible that was the first time I'd seen him completely sober.



What happened to your OJ compulsion?

Lol...I KICKED it!! Now I can walk right on past the store OJ coolers without giving those sexy cartons another glance!!

I can now keep a carton of OJ in the fridge and it's there for a week or more....like normal folk!

Replacing the cooling orange juice with ice water was the key.

Yeah....I was a full blown, out-of-control juice-aholic for a bit there!!!
Admitting I had a problem with juice was step one towards beating it.

[Flyoverland Captive]

As always, more good advice and perspectives here; thanks folks.

I hope I didn't offend with the "suck it up" comment; that was my wife being facetious. She and I both know firsthand the value of medication and treatment for anxiety and depression. We wouldn't still be together if we hadn't faced some demons of our own, and got them fixed. Which is why it's so frustrating to watch my brother facing those same demons but refusing the very help that we've proven works.

I tried to call him today, but he didn't answer. I see he's posting on FB, so I know he's alive.

[Alaskan Rover]

Yeah...my situation was a grandmother and brother who struggled with the disease. My dad and mom were straight arrow but the damage done to me (youngest of 7) was enough just witnessing the abusive behavior from those 2 family members.

One of the main reasons I stay sober is my boys, aged 13 and 12 now. They are my life. I worry about them growing up with this disease but you never know what the hell's gonna happen as evidenced by your story AK.

Those are two VERY important reasons, Grape_Ape! And congratulations on staying sober. I know it's got to be a crazy difficult thing to do.

I knew a guy at a marina where I had my boat. The guy was super cool and mellow. Everywhere he went he kept a big cooler in his trunk....just filled with ice and beer. He would do work on my boat and meet me at the marina at 9 am...beer in hand and having already downed a couple. He did good work, though...but I often wondered how good he could have been sober.

[buttahflake]

Yeah but gape-ape is the classic, dry drunk. Always angry. Thinks he's always right. No one wants to be around him.
He's a dick, in other words.

[twodogs]

Yeah but gape-ape is the classic, dry drunk. Always angry. Thinks he's always right. No one wants to be around him.
He's a dick, in other words.

This is true.

[iceman]

I knew a guy at a marina where I had my boat. The guy was super cool and mellow. Everywhere he went he kept a big cooler in his trunk....just filled with ice and beer. He would do work on my boat and meet me at the marina at 9 am...beer in hand and having already downed a couple. He did good work, though...but I often wondered how good he could have been sober.

Probably shitty.

[Grape_Ape]

Yeah but gape-ape is the classic, dry drunk. Always angry. Thinks he's always right. No one wants to be around him.
He's a dick, in other words.

Hey...if you are racist piece of shit (like you), I will not mince words on how many ways you suck. That's all. And 2cunts is political troll. So he can go eat a dick.

[Flyoverland Captive]

Bump for an update.

It seems he hit rock bottom a month ago; lost yet another job, then went on a two-day bender. Woke up one morning and decided he’d had enough, and quit cold turkey. Had four seizures the next day; his GF thought he was going to die. He rode it out, and has been dry for four weeks. Got a part-time job at a ranch near Reno. One day at a time, man.

I’m fucking proud of him.

[wooley12]

Good news!!

[Flyoverland Captive]

Yep! This has been a long haul; I really hope this sticks.

[pfluffenmeister]

Whoa, cold turkey is no joke; can kill you.

Good to hear he's on the upswing.

[wooley12]

At two weeks his brain is still lying to him and he's fighting to stay strong. Hope he Does AA. No meeting was worth much but 3 ideas over 30 meetings helped saved me.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Whoa, that's nuts. Good job. You must feel great.

What is it about kicking alcohol that fucks you up so much? What causes the seizures?

[wooley12]

A drastic change in BAC is a shock to your brain chemistry if your normal BAC os over 2.0 or so.