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  1. #1
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    Brother has gone off the rails: how do I get him to seek help?

    My only brother, 43, is unraveling. He got divorced a year ago; he lost his job last fall. He has burned through all his savings, is living with my folks back home, and drinks himself into a stupor every day. His girlfriend tried to get him to seek help; he shut her out, making excuses. My folks are at the end of their ropes, but they avoid confrontation; they are clearly enabling him. My sis was visiting home last week, and was alarmed at how far down the rabbit hole he has gone. He even stole from her while she was there; she called me yesterday, desperate. I moved away five years ago, and have spoken to him less and less; I had no idea he had gotten so bad.

    What the hell do we do? He's stubborn, and absolutely HATES being told what to do. He fancies himself a free spirit, bound to no rules or social conventions; I know that the mere mention of treatment is gonna set him off. He has tentatively agreed to see a counselor, but he's doing it to help with his anxiety and stress - he doesn't see his addiction as a problem at all.

    Anybody dealt with this? I know that ultimately, if he doesn't want help, that's on him; but we all love him, and don't want to give up. How do I get him to pull his head out of his ass and see what he's doing to himself (and us?)
    Last edited by Flyoverland Captive; 07-10-2012 at 10:22 AM.

  2. #2
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    Take him out partying one night, drug him and when he passes out, put him in the trunk and drive 400 - 500 miles. Dump him on the side of the road somewhere with $20 in his pocket and skeedaddle.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyoverland Captive View Post
    My only brother, 43, is unraveling. He got divorced a year ago; he lost his job last fall. He has burned through all his savings, is living with my folks back home, and drinks himself into a stupor every day. His girlfriend tried to get him to seek help; he shut her out, making excuses. My folks are at the end of their ropes, but they avoid confrontation; they are clearly enabling him. My sis was visiting home last week, and was alarmed at how far down the rabbit hole he has gone. He even stole from here while she was there; she called me yesterday, desperate. I moved away five years ago, and have spoken to him less and less; I had no idea he had gotten so bad.

    What the hell do we do? He's stubborn, and absolutely HATES being told what to do. He fancies himself a free spirit, bound to no rules or social conventions; I know that the mere mention of treatment is gonna set him off. He has tentatively agreed to see a counselor, but he's doing it to help with his anxiety and stress - he doesn't see his addiction as a problem at all.

    Anybody dealt with this? I know that ultimately, if he doesn't want help, that's on him; but we all love him, and don't want to give up. How do I get him to pull his head out of his ass and see what he's doing to himself (and us?)
    Now that's what you call a full blown alcoholic! Two words. Tough love.
    Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. -Helen Keller

  4. #4
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    Unfortunately, your brother has to hit his bottom. Being a waste of space with no job/life isn't enough for some people to want to turn things around.

    Is your bro totally broke and dependent on your parents for money? If they are housing, feeding him, and giving him booze money they are only dragging things out longer.

    They should cut him off, kick him out, etc.

    When he is truly down and out he will see help/treatment/etc.

  5. #5
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    If hes working on anxiety and stress, and other issues, I bet the alcoholism will get better. Addiction is never its own problem, going to the root causes of it is always the best bet. This is why people who have sobered up still need to go to AA 10 years later to 'stay strong' because they havent figured out anything besides just quitting the drug. Let him drink, if he seems like he has other issues to deal with perhaps he needs to self medicate while doing so. Not the healthiest thing, but focusing solely on how hes fucking up won't help him either, it'll only make him feel like a fuck up, which will make him want to get drunk. If hes serious about therapy, it wouldnt hurt to call his therapist and tell them just how much hes drinking.
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  6. #6
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    Did the divorce lead to the job loss or was it more coincidence? My advice would be start with small steps/victories. Sounds like his self awareness is nonexistent right now so work on that slowly.

  7. #7
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    Sounds like a job for Mars Hill Church.

    Seriously though, WG nailed it, your parents are enabling him every day by not kicking his ass out to fend for himself. Let him see what bottom really looks like.

    Also, you said it, it's impossible to talk someone into getting help that doesn't think they need it hence the need for homelessness and true rock bottom.
    The best things in life aren't things.

  8. #8
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    My fear is that his bottom is suicide; I want to stop this before it hits that point. I agree, tough love is needed; but how do we get him help when he won't accept it? He's always been coddled, and his current situation (free food, rent, etc.) is obviously making things worse. But if they kick him out, I really suspect he'll pull a McCandless and be dead in a year.

    Anybody ever had to convince a family member/friend that they need serious help, and that they need to swallow their pride and let someone else guide them?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman View Post
    Did the divorce lead to the job loss or was it more coincidence? My advice would be start with small steps/victories. Sounds like his self awareness is nonexistent right now so work on that slowly.
    He's been on a self-destructive path for about five years; his marriage unraveled mainly because he didn't care enough about himself or her to work on it. He's been a fuck-up at work for years, daring them to fire him; they finally did.

  10. #10
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    Sorry to hear it. Your bro is a drunkard. I've seen way too much of this shit.

    Intervention sometimes works, but only if the timing is right and the family is prepped. Maybe the first step is to work on your parents. Maybe get Ma and Pa to Al-Anon.

    Best o' luck

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyoverland Captive View Post
    Anybody ever had to convince a family member/friend that they need serious help, and that they need to swallow their pride and let someone else guide them?
    Yes I've had to do that. It didn't work. I know this is not what you want to hear, but the truth is that you can't fix him. You can't beat sense into him, you can't threaten it into him, you can't rationalize it into him, you can't love it into him.

    Your parents absolutely have to kick him out. It will suck, but they're enabling him to continue.

    What you have to do is let him know that until he gets his life on track and gets sober - he's got no place in your life. It's HORRIBLE and I know it. I feared that my brother would end up jail or dead and many sleepless nights were had on his account.

    What you have to consider is that your brother's behavior could put your parents in an early grave. They're stressing and not living a healthy life because of his actions.

    There are treatment centers for people who can't afford private care - typically on a sliding scale. They're not nice - they're not fun - but they'll help him get his shit pulled together.

    Good luck man - it's a shitty place to be, but you're certainly not the first nor the last to go through it. The good news is that my brother pulled himself out of a horrible place and got a handle on his addiction and now has a quality life. It did take some serious bottoming out though.

  12. #12
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    Sounds cliche, but your brother needs to be handed his problem. Why would he get better if his problem is yours, your sister's and your parents'? Suicide is never a bargaining chip. He is going to eventually kill himself anyway. He will keep taking what he needs to feed his anxiety and alcoholism. Don't give it to him. Offer him treatment. Tell him its his choice. But that you get to make a choice too if he declines, and that's to simply hand him his own shit sandwich.

  13. #13
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    Totally agreed on the Al-Anon thing. Often parents of alcoholics have no idea that they are only exacerbating the situation by housing and funding (see: enabling) their alcoholic children.


    Again, the kicking him out thing may be the only way for him to turn things around. Some of the most amazing recoveries I have seen in AA are from those who were literally living on the streets after 25 years of daily drinking. Homeless people usually wind up at a shelter and lots of shelters point drunks towards the salvation army and eventually they end up in halfway houses, etc.

  14. #14
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    Been through this x2.

    If there's no consequences for his actions he won't seek help on his own. Time for your parents to cut the umbilical cord. That goes for you and your sis, too.

    Sorry you have to go through this and best of luck to you and yours.

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    Do you think he wants help or is he fine living the way he is? Most of the time treatment only works when the person decides he/she wants to get clean and sober. Forcing someone into treatment usually doesn't have a good success rate.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackCountryNC View Post
    Do you think he wants help or is he fine living the way he is? Most of the time treatment only works when the person decides he/she wants to get clean and sober. Forcing someone into treatment usually doesn't have a good success rate.
    I can't imagine that he's happy living in my parents basement with no money, no job, and no prospects. Yet there he is. He needs a kick in the right direction; depression has him utterly paralyzed. He will rebel HARD if he's forced into anything; I want him to understand that HE needs to make a change, but I have no idea how to get it through to him.

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    My Bro in Law committed my Sis to spin dry about 15 years ago and it took. She went back to school got her masters and is working on her Phd. She is still nuttier than a fruitcake, but she's sober. She was a functioning drunk from morning till night.
    If the shocker don't rock her, then Dr. Spock her. Dad.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyoverland Captive View Post
    ... I want him to understand that HE needs to make a change, but I have no idea how to get it through to him.
    I think if you knew the answer to this, you'd have your own treatment clinic OVERFLOWING with addicts. I'd love to know too, where this "rock bottom" is - and how do/can you trust someone enough (who hasn't shown a lick of trustworthiness) to find it on their own?
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  19. #19
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    I am not an expert, but strongly feel rules need to be made for the guy to change. Your parents need to state if he is going to live under their roof- then no drinking, period. If the rule is broken then kick him out and onto the street. If he needs to hit bottom, then the homeless shelters hopefully will be there with the same rules- you stay here then you have to be sober. Then the rest of the issues can be dealt with. Until that happens- as others have stated Al-Anon for them so they can start to understand that they can't save him by allowing him to live as a drunk in their basement.

    You are worried about the suicide issue, his drinking does not help depression AT ALL. So get them some help too so they can deal with the mess.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackCountryNC View Post
    Do you think he wants help or is he fine living the way he is? Most of the time treatment only works when the person decides he/she wants to get clean and sober. Forcing someone into treatment usually doesn't have a good success rate.
    This. No point in forcing him or even doing an intervention or any of that stuff. Just put an end to any enabling going on and the rest is up to him.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyoverland Captive View Post
    I can't imagine that he's happy living in my parents basement with no money, no job, and no prospects. Yet there he is. He needs a kick in the right direction; depression has him utterly paralyzed. He will rebel HARD if he's forced into anything; I want him to understand that HE needs to make a change, but I have no idea how to get it through to him.
    You should get the folks into treatment 1st because they're the ones enabling his behavior. As long as mom and dad are supporting him, he has no reason to change. Sometimes parents just put up with their kids bullshit rather than deal with losing a son to the streets or worse. Maybe they're willing to take on the burden and that's their call, not yours. As a sibling, all you can do is sit him down when he's sober and tell him he's no longer a part of your life as long as he is drinking. Then walk away and hope for the best. The only people who are successful quitting drinking are the ones who want to.
    Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. -Helen Keller

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyoverland Captive View Post
    but I have no idea how to get it through to him.
    Been through this a few times with people. There are NO WORDS, only ACTION or INACTION. Hand him his own problem. If that doesn't get through to him, he was going to drink himself to death anyway.

  23. #23
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    Thanks for the responses so far, folks; I really appreciate it. I'll be talking to my sister tonight, and hopefully parents too, and approaching my brother tomorrow.

    One fly in the ointment is that my whole family drinks. I can hear his response: "But you drink too much too!" Difference is, we all hold steady jobs, have solid relationships, etc. He'll try to turn this onto us, I just know it. Thus our meetings tonight to make sure we're all on the same page and focused on HIS problem and how to get him healthy. I'll probably have to quit too, as a sign of solidarity; might be good for me anyway.

  24. #24
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    Good luck FC, and sorry if my responses were terse. They don't see it at the time, are blind to their selfishness and it hardens those around them sometimes, me included. When you see people you love die from this, you wish you were a bigger dick in retrospect. I am not an all or nothing AA devotee - who knows, maybe he can socially drink one day again, but he isn't going to work out the underlying issues while tangoing with the business end of of a bottle.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poop~Ghost View Post
    Yes I've had to do that. It didn't work. I know this is not what you want to hear, but the truth is that you can't fix him. You can't beat sense into him, you can't threaten it into him, you can't rationalize it into him, you can't love it into him.

    Your parents absolutely have to kick him out. It will suck, but they're enabling him to continue.

    What you have to do is let him know that until he gets his life on track and gets sober - he's got no place in your life. It's HORRIBLE and I know it. I feared that my brother would end up jail or dead and many sleepless nights were had on his account.

    What you have to consider is that your brother's behavior could put your parents in an early grave. They're stressing and not living a healthy life because of his actions.

    There are treatment centers for people who can't afford private care - typically on a sliding scale. They're not nice - they're not fun - but they'll help him get his shit pulled together.

    Good luck man - it's a shitty place to be, but you're certainly not the first nor the last to go through it. The good news is that my brother pulled himself out of a horrible place and got a handle on his addiction and now has a quality life. It did take some serious bottoming out though.
    My brother is 9 years older than me, which makes him 53 this year. He has been an alcoholic since his late teens. We (my family) are really quite surprised he's still alive given how much and how frequently he drinks. He's been riding the bottom for a long time, but he's a charming guy and can always find people who will let him sleep on their couch, and he's been doing this for many, many years.


    Quote Originally Posted by BackCountryNC View Post
    Do you think he wants help or is he fine living the way he is? Most of the time treatment only works when the person decides he/she wants to get clean and sober. Forcing someone into treatment usually doesn't have a good success rate.
    My bro is currently in court-ordered treatment. He's been technically homeless for at least 15 years. He's only going to the treatment because it's that or jail. It won't fix him, he doesn't want to be fixed. He realizes that his drinking has ruined his relationships with his family but even that's not enough. I tried to help him get back on the right path about 10 years ago - let him live at my house while he looked for work and once he landed a job (he was a machinist) I paid his first/last/deposit on an apartment for him. All that did was enable him and he was out of a job and back on the street within a few months. After that I told him never to ask me for money or a place to stay again. I hardly ever hear from him nowadays but occasionally he'll call just to chat or to try to butter me up, thinking I'll relent and give him something.

    I hope your brother can get his act back together and get on with his life. Watching my brother slowly self destruct since I was just a kid has been very educational, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The thing is, he has to WANT to change, and it's totally up to him.
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