Portable AC vs Portable Swamp Cooler (Evaporative Cooler)

[climberevan]

Version 1, which worked ok but was ghetto AF. There was a section of 10" flex duct on top going into a window.

V2 employs a big Rubbermaid bin and is a lot more elegnt5 but I don't have pics handy.

[ntblanks]

Version 1, which worked ok but was ghetto AF. There was a section of 10" flex duct on top going into a window.

V2 employs a big Rubbermaid bin and is a lot more elegnt5 but I don't have pics handy.

ghetto indeed.

not sure you saw my replies above.

[climberevan]

I still don't buy it. He's measuring the temp of the coils with the laser, not the air exciting the fan. At best that would create a slightly cool breeze directly in front of the fan while rapidly melting the ice. Why not invest the same energy and less money in parts and create an evaporative cooler that will actually work?

Thermodynamics is hard, I know.

[Cocximus]

First I want to check, you realize the ice would melt as you circulate the water?

The coils don't have enough heat exchange capacity to make a noticable difference. If you got something better, like a radiator, it would melt your ice very fast.

Cooling anything is wasteful.

Toronto has a system where a company pumps cold (2-3c) water from Lake Ontario. Big business towers hook up to it and run heat exchangers between the cold lake water and building cooling loop. The lake water doesn't go through dirty building systems. The water then gets sent to the drinking water treatment plant a few degrees warmer. I scored from work a fan coil and I hooked it up to my faucet. It worked really well on scorching days.

[ntblanks]

I still don't buy it. He's measuring the temp of the coils with the laser, not the air exciting the fan. At best that would create a slightly cool breeze directly in front of the fan while rapidly melting the ice. Why not invest the same energy and less money in parts and create an evaporative cooler that will actually work?

Thermodynamics is hard, I know.

i didn't do well in HS physics, that is true. but I'm seeing enough independent evidence online that this approach works well. i may also try it with a transmission radiator (link below), though that may be v2 after the PoC with the coils.

why this approach? I've got nothing against EC. clearly works. i find this approach more elegant in that it has a more closed system. this is basically how an AC unit works so i don't see why it won't work when I try it. not afraid to be wrong and fall back on cheap, reliable EC.

re: ice melt rate, I'll find that out when I get there. the cost of making ice is basically zero so it's not a deterrent. huge blocks of ice in a thick-walled cooler should last a while. not trying to cool the Taj Mahal over here.

if it passes PoC i may start tinkering with cycling the water pipes through a chest freezer and see where that takes me.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60374/10002/-1

[ntblanks]

First I want to check, you realize the ice would melt as you circulate the water?

i do.

The coils don't have enough heat exchange capacity to make a noticable difference. If you got something better, like a radiator, it would melt your ice very fast.

Cooling anything is wasteful.

Toronto has a system where a company pumps cold (2-3c) water from Lake Ontario. Big business towers hook up to it and run heat exchangers between the cold lake water and building cooling loop. The lake water doesn't go through dirty building systems. The water then gets sent to the drinking water treatment plant a few degrees warmer. I scored from work a fan coil and I hooked it up to my faucet. It worked really well on scorching days.

that's pretty cool and doesn't warm the lake by returning the water.

I'm just not keen on running the tap like that.

maybe I'll skip the coils (with their limited surface area) and go straight to the transmission radiator. 40' of 1/2" copper coil seems like a lot of surface area but I'm not running formulas here to validate or compare.

i appreciate the insights. when all is said and done this may be an educational exercise in verifying physical laws that you and CV point out. i wouldn't consider that a total waste.

edit: i bought two 10" x 16" transmission fluid coolers (alu, 2.4 lbs) which should work great and cover 80%+ of the fan output area. skipping the copper coil approach per your comment.

[bodywhomper]

Mr obvious here... If you're opening a window when using an EC, like shown in el chup's picture, it'll messed you up if the AQ is bad like from ozone or wildfire smoke.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

[El Chupacabra]

Mr obvious here... If you're opening a window when using an EC, like shown in el chup's picture, it'll messed you up if the AQ is bad like from ozone or wildfire smoke.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

Definitely lets in outside air. But I think any swamp cooler will do that, even the roof mounted type.

[climberevan]

Mr obvious here... If you're opening a window when using an EC, like shown in el chup's picture, it'll messed you up if the AQ is bad like from ozone or wildfire smoke.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

It's a problem, for sure, but I've had great success with MERV 13 filters taped to the outside of the cooler. The hottest times here are often also the smokiest.

[bodywhomper]

It's a problem, for sure, but I've had great success with MERV 13 filters taped to the outside of the cooler. The hottest times here are often also the smokiest.

Good to know that works! Can’t filter O3….

[snowaddict91]

Mr obvious here... If you're opening a window when using an EC, like shown in el chup's picture, it'll messed you up if the AQ is bad like from ozone or wildfire smoke.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

You have to have windows open for exhaust/evaporation with an EC too. They require air circulation to function. The only time I wish I have AC is when the air quality is in the shitter for days on end.

[XtrPickels]

Just a follow up for a a thread I forgot I started 9 years ago...

We bought the window shaker. Used it for a bit, bought a house with Central AC, gave the unit away to friends when they were pregnant and couldn't stand the heat.

[jono]

i didn't do well in HS physics, that is true. but I'm seeing enough independent evidence online that this approach works well. i may also try it with a transmission radiator (link below), though that may be v2 after the PoC with the coils.

why this approach? I've got nothing against EC. clearly works. i find this approach more elegant in that it has a more closed system. this is basically how an AC unit works so i don't see why it won't work when I try it. not afraid to be wrong and fall back on cheap, reliable EC.

re: ice melt rate, I'll find that out when I get there. the cost of making ice is basically zero so it's not a deterrent. huge blocks of ice in a thick-walled cooler should last a while. not trying to cool the Taj Mahal over here.

if it passes PoC i may start tinkering with cycling the water pipes through a chest freezer and see where that takes me.

https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60374/10002/-1

Where is the chest freezer? Making ice is definitely not free, it takes as much energy as an AC unit to move the same energy out of the water (probably more, since it's going colder) and the heat from the water comes out the back of your chest freezer. Unless you can cut some ice from the pond in the summer, of course.

Which brings us to: when? Do you make ice exclusively at night? This whole experiment may benefit from a 55 gallon drum or two and a radiator (EC?) outside cooling off your reservoir all night. Why not? It needs pumps anyway.

If you decide to try it, please put up a list of parts and where you get them just in case it works out.

[ntblanks]

Where is the chest freezer? Making ice is definitely not free, it takes as much energy as an AC unit to move the same energy out of the water (probably more, since it's going colder) and the heat from the water comes out the back of your chest freezer. Unless you can cut some ice from the pond in the summer, of course.

Which brings us to: when? Do you make ice exclusively at night? This whole experiment may benefit from a 55 gallon drum or two and a radiator (EC?) outside cooling off your reservoir all night. Why not? It needs pumps anyway.

If you decide to try it, please put up a list of parts and where you get them just in case it works out.

thanks for the nudge, Jono. i threw together a mvp and it validated points raised by Climberevan and Cocximus around thermodynamics and ice melt rate. with the volume cooler I wanted to use i got the radiator temp to 69°, not low enough to do much damage. and that temp didn't last long before it started rising. the chest freezer idea is to run the tubes somehow through the freezer on a continuous cycle. but that's getting into a much larger concept than i want to right now. i learned a few things and am out a few $ from parts. here are some pics for posterity.

[climberevan]

Nice follow through. Thermodynamics isn't just a concept; IT IS THE LAW.

[Skidog]

cool so you're diying something thats already been invented....gotta believe there is a better solution, but tinkering is cool...keep at it.

[splat]

Nice follow through. Thermodynamics isn't just a concept; IT IS THE LAW.

lmao.

I have now installed two filters over the inlet air duct of my swamp cooler, given the absolutely shit AQI out there.

[jono]

thanks for the nudge, Jono. i threw together a mvp and it validated points raised by Climberevan and Cocximus around thermodynamics and ice melt rate. with the volume cooler I wanted to use i got the radiator temp to 69°, not low enough to do much damage. and that temp didn't last long before it started rising. the chest freezer idea is to run the tubes somehow through the freezer on a continuous cycle. but that's getting into a much larger concept than i want to right now. i learned a few things and am out a few $ from parts. here are some pics for posterity.

That looked like fun. If you decide to continue and have an outdoor pad for the chest freezer it might not be a dead end, just don't bring it in the house.

[eggsbenedict]

Love the tinkering! If you like this remote evaporator set-up for whatever reason, you might be able to find a busted beer draft line cooling glycol unit that's been sitting in a bar somewhere for years that just needs a leaky gasket replaced or whatever. Set that up in your garage and you're golden.

https://www.micromatic.com/glycol-co...ts/power-packs

But if you're already hunting around for broken equipment, it would be way more fun to have an ice machine continuously dropping ice cubes into your cooler/reservoir, ideally through a clear tube for maximum Rube Goldberg cooling machine effect.

[ntblanks]

Love the tinkering! If you like this remote evaporator set-up for whatever reason, you might be able to find a busted beer draft line cooling glycol unit that's been sitting in a bar somewhere for years that just needs a leaky gasket replaced or whatever. Set that up in your garage and you're golden.

https://www.micromatic.com/glycol-co...ts/power-packs

But if you're already hunting around for broken equipment, it would be way more fun to have an ice machine continuously dropping ice cubes into your cooler/reservoir, ideally through a clear tube for maximum Rube Goldberg cooling machine effect.

i welcome the ribbing. my imagination goes towards Willy Wonka or Dr. Suess.

the key initial design specs were small footprint (no bigger/more unwieldy than a smaller "portable" AC) and low cost. ideally, no more than $120 total. the chest freezer idea is more of a central AC concept running water lines through the floor/walls to strategically placed units (~1000 sq ft house) and coiling sufficiently inside the freezer to get wicked cold. yes, lots of challenges and possibly terrible ideas with that concept. the temps here retreated from their 1000-year highs and my mind is now elsewhere. but now i have one more cold generator to add to the mix. thx.