Lance back in the news.

[Benny Profane]

Banned from Ironman France on June 24. All that training down the toilet, I'd be pissed.

Isn't that all he's been doing for most of his life? I mean, how does he stop?

[TBS]

Isn't that all he's been doing for most of his life? I mean, how does he stop?

Training? Or being pissed? Or both?

[yonskion]

He should just admit he smokes dope and get over it

[Benny Profane]

Training? Or being pissed? Or both?

Well, training, and being a prick.

[OldLarry]

This is why I have just given up on pro cycling. If the sport is to the point that we can pretty much write off any result as a product of doping (past or present), then I just don't give a shit anymore. Fuck it all.

This is exactly how I feel, though from my limited understanding the sport itself has a long and oddly proud tradition of doping. It's like fighting in hockey. Plenty of people want it-

[Canada1]

Well, training, and being a prick.

Lance is a one demensional person. He focussed everything on his biking and put it all out there to be the best. I believe he dopped. He also was an ass to those around him. But, he created this foundation that is doing good. The cynic in me says he did it in response to the doping allegations and to further the incredible story of his recovery. The realist in me says who cares, it is helping save lives, and he has a stage that allows him to achieve more from a monetary stand point to this good cause than most.

At this time I want the US doping guys to focus on racers that will race in the next century. I don't want them to tear down the story of a guy who's foundation is doing good. Regardless of whether he was there for his kids or his wives or whatever, I want his foundation to make money for this good cause. Tearing away his seven wins at this point is just dumb. I do put this on par with people who have used recreational drugs. I think he did it, and it didn't do great harm to society. It is a victimless crime, and I wish these ass hats would stop spending tons of money trying to tear him down.

So my end vote is go after the guys who are currently doping full throttle and leave Lance alone while his foundation goes out and tries to kick cancers ass.

[My Pet Powder Goat]

Lance is a one demensional person. He focussed everything on his biking and put it all out there to be the best. I believe he dopped. He also was an ass to those around him. But, he created this foundation that is doing good. The cynic in me says he did it in response to the doping allegations and to further the incredible story of his recovery. The realist in me says who cares, it is helping save lives, and he has a stage that allows him to achieve more from a monetary stand point to this good cause than most.

At this time I want the US doping guys to focus on racers that will race in the next century. I don't want them to tear down the story of a guy who's foundation is doing good. Regardless of whether he was there for his kids or his wives or whatever, I want his foundation to make money for this good cause. Tearing away his seven wins at this point is just dumb. I do put this on par with people who have used recreational drugs. I think he did it, and it didn't do great harm to society. It is a victimless crime, and I wish these ass hats would stop spending tons of money trying to tear him down.

So my end vote is go after the guys who are currently doping full throttle and leave Lance alone while his foundation goes out and tries to kick cancers ass.

I say: fuck him! It pisses me off when people talk about what an "inspiration" and "hero" he is. Cancer has effected many of us on a personal level. (close friends & family) there are cancer survivors close to my heart that inspire me, I don't need a narcissistic cheat, who most likely ended up with testicular cancer due to years of doping (testosterone) to inspire me.

[Dickeymotto]

Lance is a one demensional person. He focussed everything on his biking and put it all out there to be the best. I believe he dopped. He also was an ass to those around him. But, he created this foundation that is doing good. The cynic in me says he did it in response to the doping allegations and to further the incredible story of his recovery. The realist in me says who cares, it is helping save lives, and he has a stage that allows him to achieve more from a monetary stand point to this good cause than most.

At this time I want the US doping guys to focus on racers that will race in the next century. I don't want them to tear down the story of a guy who's foundation is doing good. Regardless of whether he was there for his kids or his wives or whatever, I want his foundation to make money for this good cause. Tearing away his seven wins at this point is just dumb. I do put this on par with people who have used recreational drugs. I think he did it, and it didn't do great harm to society. It is a victimless crime, and I wish these ass hats would stop spending tons of money trying to tear him down.

So my end vote is go after the guys who are currently doping full throttle and leave Lance alone while his foundation goes out and tries to kick cancers ass.

Agreed completely. If the UCI (or whoever governs all this) were to come out and say in essence "we know doping was rapant and virtually everyone did it, so we're going to let them keep their titles but from here on out there will be none and we mean it this time" and actually enforce it effectively, I would once again be a pro cycling fan. Until then, fuck it.

[boltonoutlaw]

Legalize doping to create a level playing field. Because really, WGAS? It's not like anyone takes "professional" wrestling seriously, yet millions of people watch it. It's just entertainment, and clowning or steroids isn't going to change that.

[PNWbrit]

But, he created this foundation that is doing good.........

It is? You sure?

I don't want them to tear down the story of a guy who's foundation is doing good.....

His foundation doing good might likely just be a story too.

I want his foundation to make money for this good cause.

Actually looking at how much money it makes and how much of that goes to good causes is very revealing.

The celeb charity business is frequently a money making scam or just an exercise in vanity.

[XtrPickels]

Agreed completely. If the UCI (or whoever governs all this) were to come out and say in essence "we know doping was rapant and virtually everyone did it, so we're going to let them keep their titles but from here on out there will be none and we mean it this time" and actually enforce it effectively, I would once again be a pro cycling fan. Until then, fuck it.

If only it were so easy.
Part of me believe there should just be upper-limits for hct, test, etc and who cares what you do to get there. If you're over, regardless of why you're out.

But

That would lead to many individuals taking drugs which are far from cheap. So, the playing field wouldn't really be that level.
Additionally, what about the youth of the sport? do they start doping at an early age to solidify a spot in the pro's? At least with the current situation (USADA and WADA) we can believe (if only) that you don't need to dope to make it to the pros and that there is still some hope for future generations.

sportsscientists.com has had some good write ups on the decrement in climbing performance as a marker that perhaps its not as rampant as we once thought.

I also feel, however, that USADA ought to be using it's man power for current athletes. Instead, they're try to make an example out of someone.

[smmokan]

It is? You sure?
His foundation doing good might likely just be a story too.
Actually looking at how much money it makes and how much of that goes to good causes is very revealing.
The celeb charity business is frequently a money making scam or just an exercise in vanity.

If you don't think his foundation has inspired thousands of people with cancer to live their life differently, then you're clearly blind to the purpose of his efforts. There are always questions about the finances of organizations as large as his, but that's not all that it's about. He touches lots of people through several different mediums. I hate when people on the internet focus on the negative side of things and forget about all the benefits of a specific cause.

[GeezerSteve]

He'll skate because he has a bunch more cancer cards up his sleeve. Remember kids, it's not how you play the game; it's about winning, not getting caught and creating a teflon persona.

Bill Gifford in Slate: Amusing 2009 piece on Lance and Sarah

Bill Gifford in Outside, Jan. 2012: Fair analysis of where the Livestrong money goes and the symbiotic relationship between Livestrong the cause célèbre and Armstrong the self-promoter

[Hugh Conway]

then you're clearly blind to the purpose of his efforts.

You mean conflating his personal business brand with a charity brand? The modern cult of celebrity which has people like you sucking his one nut is what its about.

Big Steve posted a decent link to where the money goes. Maybe you should read it?

[PNWbrit]

If you don't think his foundation has inspired thousands of people with cancer to live their life differently, then you're clearly blind to the purpose of his efforts. There are always questions about the finances of organizations as large as his, but that's not all that it's about. He touches lots of people through several different mediums.

He probably could have done just as much by donating his time and fame to something like the American Cancer Foundation.

But then his opportunity to make money under the shadow of his foundation would have been removed.

I hate when people on the internet focus on the negative side of things and forget about all the benefits of a specific cause.

The old making the trains run on time and building autobahns argument.

[smmokan]

Apparently you didn't read my post... it's not all about the money. I know, being a trust fund baby and all you don't get that, but it is true.

[GeezerSteve]

it's not all about the money.

Right, it's also about having a cause célèbre shield.

Really, read the Jan. 2012 Gifford article. It's a very fair analysis.

[Hugh Conway]

Apparently you didn't read my post... it's not all about the money.

It's about "awareness" and yuppie athlete fashion accessory wrist bands.


you clearly don't "know" much about me, and you clearly don't want to know much about Lance.

[TBS]

Part of me believe there should just be upper-limits for hct, test, etc and who cares what you do to get there. If you're over, regardless of why you're out.

sportsscientists.com has had some good write ups on the decrement in climbing performance as a marker that perhaps its not as rampant as we once thought.

Any thoughts on UCI/WADA allowing Grand Tour riders to get some blood transfused if their hematocrit level (or maybe even white cell count) falls below a certain level? Three weeks of 100 mile days are freakin tough on people's bodies no matter how fit. Might actually stop guys from doping to the gills before the race and then try to carry through?

Also, any links to the sportsscientists writeups you reference? They are kind of tedious to find using search on that site.

[PNWbrit]

clearly don't want to know much about Lance.

Go USA, go USA.

Did anyone ever buy extra stamps due to the team USPS? Did the USPS employee who signed that sponsorship deal ever get shit canned?

Fannie & Freddie NASCAR team?

[Roxtar]

I'm curious; if they were to strip him of the titles, who would they give them to?
I mean, hasn't pretty much everyone who was a contender back then already been caught? I picture some retired cyclist who took 23rd place getting an email saying he's the new champion of the '96 tour.

I heard it put best by someone who said, "If he won clean, he was a god, beating all the cheaters. If he wasn't clean, he won on a level playing field."

[PNWbrit]

Lance Armstrong Wants To Tell Nation Something But Nation Has To Promise Not To Get Mad

DALLAS—Saying that it would probably be best if everyone sat down for this, seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong informed the U.S. populace Thursday that he wanted to tell it something, but that the nation first had to promise it wouldn't get angry once he did.

"Look, I'm not going to sugarcoat this. It's bad," Armstrong said during the nationally televised press conference. "But you have to swear to God that you won't get mad when I tell you, because if you get upset and yell about how you're really disappointed I'm just going to walk out of here."

"Okay?" Armstrong continued. "You guys promise?"

Armstrong then took a deep breath, massaged his forehead, murmured "Oh boy, here we go," and appeared for several moments to be on the verge of telling the nation his news. He seemed to lose his focus, however, commenting that it wasn't as if anything he was about to say would diminish the fact that he beat cancer or that his foundation has donated more than $250 million to cancer research.

In addition, Armstrong said the American people had to promise that, following his announcement, they would resist the urge to remove their Livestrong bracelets and throw them away or burn them.

"Okay, there's no easy way to put this, but, well, you guys know how I won a record seven consecutive Tours de France between 1999 and 2005?" said Armstrong, who took a sip of water as his hand visibly shook. "Well, this has to do with that. It also has to do with this impending federal investigation of my cycling team. What it absolutely does not have anything to do with is the fact that I am an inspiration to cancer sufferers worldwide—cancer sufferers who could potentially experience serious physical and emotional setbacks if you break your promise and get mad at me."

Throughout the preamble to his announcement, onlookers reported getting the impression that Armstrong felt some need to defend what he was about to tell the country. The world's most successful cyclist spent almost 25 minutes telling the nation that, as a top-level international athlete, one has to do certain things to remain competitive; that he has no regrets; and that, given the chance to live his life again, he would do everything again the same way.

Armstrong also repeatedly mentioned that he had beaten cancer.

"You have to understand—in the high-pressure world of competitive cycling, it's all about getting any advantage you can," Armstrong said. "And if we were being realistic, we'd have to admit that everyone in cycling was trying to get an advantage. So, in a way, if we were all trying to get the same advantage, then the playing field was still completely equal. So I was still the best. It makes sense when you look at it that way. And nothing I am about to tell you changes that. So, when I'm finished saying what I have to say, you all have to promise to still adore me."

"In fact, if you don't still adore me, and you suddenly get all huffy and say that I wasn't really a hero all these years, you are in the wrong here, not me," Armstrong added. "You. Not me."

Armstrong then stood, paced back and forth for a moment, shook his head, and returned to the microphone.

"You guys are not making this easy for me, that's for damn sure," he said. "This really shouldn't be hard. Because it's actually not even really that big of a deal. At all. Frankly, I don't even know why I'm here right now."

Armstrong reiterated for a fifth and sixth time that he had beaten cancer.

"Okay, here goes," Armstrong said. "Um, in the late '90s and early 2000s, I took, um… You see, in order to give myself a better chance of winning, I… Yes, there were instances during the Tour when…"

"You know what? I forgot what I was going to say," Armstrong added. "Sorry. I feel like an idiot. Have a nice afternoon."

[creaky fossil]

It's about "awareness" and yuppie athlete fashion accessory wrist bands.

you clearly don't "know" much about me, and you clearly don't want to know much about Lance.

For some people, seeing a hero fall is like themselves falling but even harder. Sort of resembles those initial stages of love where lust is the overriding factor and blindness to the other's faults is the dominant perspective. There's an evolutionary advantage in that blindness, but I don't see the advantage in being blinded by fanboi worship of a hero.

Lance is an arrogant one-balled cock/rooster who has been plenty happy to lie about himself and the reasons he's been successful as a cyclist -- and it's something to observe when you see that he did this not because he was driven to be a great cyclist, but did so for purely financial gain. Identifying with someone who holds and operates under Lance's chosen values, that's nothing really to be proud of, but you can't tell some folks that. Hubris is a strange thing.

I'd bet he was juicing as a HS triathlete in Plano. Plenty of TX HS football players on the juice. No reason why Golden Boy wouldn't have sought and used it. He was already aiming to be a star.

What a shitty childhood he must've had.

[GeezerSteve]

I'm curious; if they were to strip him of the titles, who would they give them to?

Depends. Winner might be depicted as "vacated."

I heard it put best by someone who said, "If he won clean, he was a god, beating all the cheaters. If he wasn't clean, he won on a level playing field."

My guess is that he had better drugs and better means to hide it, so, no, it wasn't a level playing field.

My desire to get to the truth is about a bigger issue. American popular culture has come to an unfortunate place where once someone gets to the top it doesn't matter how he got to the top and, even worse, it is spiteful to question how he got to the top. Weird. IMV, people who rise to the top ought to be under greater scrutiny, not less.

Yeah, maybe creaky fossil hit it. Maybe it's about people being too invested in heroes and/or everything being so phony and contrived that people don't want to know the truth because it threatens the comfort of myth.

[Crampedon]

He'll be racing at Kona.

Maybe not so much....

"Despite winning the Kona event, Armstrong had not yet qualified for the Ironman World Championships in October. Ironman officials said he was scheduled to run the Ironman 140.6 event in France in a few weeks, hoping for a strong finish in that event to get a return trip to the Big Island. The USADA’s investigation into Armstrong has put that goal in jeopardy, as the World Triathalon Corporation (WTC) has suspended Armstrong from competing in its events while the investigation is underway. The WTC organizes Ironman, Ironman 70.3, and 5150 series races.

“WTC has been notified that USADA has initiated its Anti-Doping Review Board Process against Lance Armstrong to determine if there is sufficient evidence of doping during his cycling career to bring forward charges of a non-analytical nature,” said the triathalon company in a prepared statement. “Our rules, as stated in the WTC Professional Athlete Agreement and Waiver, dictate an athlete is ineligible to compete during an open investigation. Armstrong is therefore suspended from competing in WTC-owned and licensed races pending further review.”

http://bigislandnow.com/2012/06/13/i...ated-by-usada/