Small Car Towing Capacity Info, Help and Hand-Holding needed

[f2f]

It's about time we give up the tent camping setup. With kids it's becoming cramped, and sleeping on a 2" mat is just not doing it for couple of weeks anymore.

Here's my question: We all fit into the smallest Viking tent trailer from here: http://www.coachmenrv.com/products/viking.aspx The question is, what small car can I use to drag this around Canada's highways?

Options are:

bmw 328xi wagon (3 litre engine)
golf tdi (2.0 diesel)
golf (2.5 normally-aspirated
passat wagon (2.0 turbo, petrol)
passat wagon (3.6 V6)
audi a4 wagon (2.0T)
subaru (forester/outback, perhaps?)
acura rdx (old turbo engine, not the new v6)

the manufacturers all say "don't tow shit with this", but in europe everyone does it and it's legal. here are the specs for the towing trailer that i'm thinking of:

Attachment 117276

what am i missing in the towing business? is it all aboot power and cummins diesel engines on massively overweight trucks, or can things be done more intelligently without braking bank?

[MakersTeleMark]

You could tow that thing with a yugo.

[f2f]

The more general question (implied) is "how high can I go?". none of the abovementioned manufacturers publish towing capacities for North America. What's the general consensus for doing such a thing without voiding warranty or really pissing off your mechanic and costing yourself more than the car's worth in repairs?

I'm not looking to race with the F350s hauling sleds up snowy mountain passes, but I ain't just going for a summer stroll in the prairies either.

[MakersTeleMark]

Try a fiat then. With your bankroll, you could hire horses to tow it, and the camper as high as you would like.

[El Chupacabra]

If you're towing with any car that isn't marketed for towing (in the U.S., that's pretty much every "car"), and it has an automatic transmission, give serious thought to adding an aftermarket external transmission cooler. A small one would be ideal -- most all of the aftermarket ones are intended for large(r) trucks, and could over-cool a car transmission if used there.

[PlayHarder]

Your likely limited to about a 2000lb trailer, fully loaded - so around 1500lbs dry. It's not so much the engine as it is the weight of the tow vehicle and braking ability. Most new cars have plenty of power, but you don't want the trailer pushing you down a hill. I pulled a 1400lb dry, 12 foot tent trailer with a 95 Civic for a while and it was fine through the mountains.

[Slappified]

Other points to ponder are insurance and liability if you were to get into an accident towing with a vehicle thats not meant to be used for towing. I know this comes up alot when towing over the weight limits.

[milton]

We just bought a used pop-up this summer to take our 1 yr old camping. Towing it with an F150 though.

We have friends who tow their pop-up all over the place in the north east with a Toyota Corolla.


you might find some good info here--> http://www.popupportal.com/index.php?action=forum

[Shredhead]

Other points to ponder are insurance and liability if you were to get into an accident towing with a vehicle thats not meant to be used for towing. I know this comes up alot when towing over the weight limits.

IMHO: That would be the biggest issue.

All of those vehicles could pull it, at least in flat terrain. But braking would be my concern? Does the trailer come with any?

[P_McPoser]

Trailer brakes on a 2000 lb trailer? LOL

[f2f]

thanks for the advice everyone... i see people are towing even with mini coopers. although that's a stretch, the idea is to be sensible and do more with less

[stupendous man]

I am here with you f2f. I don't know shit about trailers except that I saw my little raft trailer wheel explode to pieces on the highway last summer. Turns out you need to check your bearings and grease them alot. Had the trailer out this weekend pulling my raft and got freaked about air pressure and tire/rubber explosions, I don't know shit about how air expands and contracts.

Finally, we are about to get a camper- out pathfinder owner's manual says use the brakes on the trailer and I have no idea what the fuck that means - hook up extra hydraulics???

Every stupid fucker says something different - whether my SUV or a suby or car or an F150 is what you need.

I hate bastards who were taught all this by their parents and then act like i'm a dumbass because no one ever taught me shit. [/rant]

[El Chupacabra]

Some more things to consider:
(1) hitch: the more attachment points to your vehicle, the better. Some are very light duty class I hitches that basically bolt through the floor of the trunk/ spare tire well/ etc. -- not much more than sheetmetal and large washers holding them in place. IMHO, those are best left for bicycle racks, motorcycle/ jet ski trailers, 4x6 utility trailers, etc. Class II (or III, but that will be unusual on a wagon or sedan) should have much more solid connection points to your vehicle.

(2) tongue weight: the weight of the trailer on the receiver ball -- this should be around 10-15% of the trailer's total loaded weight. The quoted weight from any RV manufacturer for a trailer is almost certainly false: quoted without propane, battery, water, or any of your luggage and assorted crap. Rough rule of thumb: add 500-700 pounds to the trailer's quoted weight, and you'll be closer to what you'll actually have once it's loaded up.

(3) GVWR: gross vehicle weight rating -- this is the total weight that the tow vehicle is rated by its manufacturer to safely carry. This is printed on a sticker on the door jamb, or sometimes in the glove box.

Subtract curb weight (vehicle alone, with full tank of gas) from GVWR, and you'll know how much total passenger + cargo capacity you have. Vehicle manufacturers usually quote curb weight in their brochures, or find it on google.

If you have a midsize sedan with 4 people, stuffed full of luggage, maybe a rocketbox + bikes on the roof, you're probably at or over the GVWR weight limit already. Add the trailer tongue weight, and the braking load, and things may get interesting.

f2f -- what you're proposing is doable, safely, but pay attention to weight and braking. Also, longer-wheelbase vehicles generally tow better than shorter-wheelbase ones.

[guroo270]

I'd go diesel, no matter what car you get. The torque and cool running engine will do you well.

[Tunco]

Volvo 850s and there later iterations tow like SOBs. When researching to buy mine years ago the UK Caravan Club was raving about them.

[Conundrum]

I don't have advice on the car but will clear something up regarding trailer brakes. BIG trailers have air controlled brakes. You essentially have to have a CDL to legally drive any vehicle that will pull these trailers and have to be trained on how to operate them.

Smaller trailers either have surge brakes, electric brakes or no brakes. Something in the 2k lb range probably won't have brakes. Some light trailers either have high payloads or you take them in some gnarly steep terrain (me) so you have brakes on the trailer.

Electric brakes are controlled by a box in the vehicle that tells the trailer to apply brakes when you hit the brake pedal and you can set the trailer brake force. Surge brakes are controlled by a mechanism in the tongue that says car is slowing so it's time to activate the trailer brakes. Anything you are pulling with a Subaru probably won't have brakes or you shouldn't be pulling it with a Subaru.

Trailer brakes not only provide stopping force but in emergency quick stops and slick roads, they can keep the trailer in line with the vehicle and not fishtailing or jackknifing.

Stupendous man-I agree with you. I grew up around trailers and worked my way through college repairing and serviceing tractor trailers. Most people are not taught what all the stuff means or even how to back a trailer. I'm always willing to help there but still get a chuckle watching someone new try to back a trailer.

The most important thing to consider when looking at trailers isn't if the vehicle can pull it. You need to know if the vehicle can safely stop it. Also check out your states gross vehicle weight limits and if your chosen routes have bridges with weight limits. Those can be some big fines. A car with a small camper will most likely be fine in most situations unless you exceed the car's towing limit.

[Badger]

Lots of people on the fiberglass trailer site I watch tow Scamps and such with Foresters - 2,400-pound limit in the states, more in Europe. Some even tow 16-footers, although I think that would be pushing it. Some people pull 12 footers with TDI's, too. FWIW, the V6 Rav4 is rated 3,500 pounds and gets about the same mpg as the Forester.

[Snow Dog]

Just to add to all the weird advice:

-- get the highest class of hitch receiver that your vehicle will take. There's no reason not to.

-- In BC, trailers over 1,400kg or over 50% of the tow vehicle weight require brakes. (almost no commercial trailers with a GVW under 1,400kg have brakes.) It's just something to keep in mind when matching up car with trailer.

-- Your stuff (fuel, water, beer, dog, friends, clothes, toys, etc) will weigh more than you think.

-- Modern tent trailers can be heavy. By the time they add a fridge, stove, water, propane, and a porta-potty they weigh as much as a small hard body. Don't trust the dry weight in the specs. Take any potential purchase for a drive and weighing.

-- You can't charge up hills with a trailer so drop one or two gears and enjoy the scenery. And get a tranny cooler. They come in all sizes.

-- Almost all vehicles have a tow rating although it's not always in the glossy brochure.

[f2f]

the vehicles from the original post mostly _don't_ have tow ratings in the US, or have very low ones -- 1000lbs. that's the reason for my original question, although now i realize there's much more to consider.

the ones i have in mind (specs here) have low hitch weight but are above the 2000lbs threshold for a small-ish car. i wonder how i can gauge the brakes on a car such as the bmw 328 wagon? they are disk, appear to be excellent, but how do i know whether they'll work with a tent trailer in the back?

anyways, great information, thank you.

[Snow Dog]

When I was researching small SUVs I noticed that the tow rating for a Suzuki Vitara was 1,500# in Canada and 1,500kg in GB. There's two things to keep in mind: the GB rating was with electric trailer brakes (common in small trailers over there). Seconds, GB is flat so who needs brakes anyway.

With my 1/2T truck I could always pick a gear (it was an auto) that let me coast down without using the brakes. That's really the key to trailer towing -- patience.

The other issue with small tow vehicles is a trailer wagging the dog. High winds or a trailer that isn't quite square will make for an interesting drive.