Avy victim's parents seek changes

[icelanticskier]

if skiing is like a walk around the block, you are NOT doing it right.

disagree 100%. if ya ain't makin it look ez and in total control, you ain't doin it right. takes years and years of practice in all snow types/terrain to develope a truly solid adaptative skiing technique. most folks these days focus on the newest protective gear/gadgets/helmets etc, and not learning how to ski properly/safely in the 1st place. focussing on the falling is the new. focussing on being a better skier is the old. put that in yer pipe and smoke it dork boy

rog

[icelanticskier]

dude, it wouldn't be a grizzly, it'd be a polar bear...wtf?

in my case, a little bi-polar bear. brunette

southside swells? rocks looked ok but pretty much storm surf elsewhere. this has been a good storm...a lot of sand has moved around from this one and stairs ripped away into the ocean.

yesterday was pretty damn fun just north of cable protected from the wind. got 2 good hours in. today? i'll wait till it cleans a bit. this storm could be the best thing for the wall sandbar in a few years. maybe enough sand will move to bring it back to the greatness that was 2008. fuck was it breaking great then. peak after peak after peak...........

new truck?

rog

[TahoeJ]

So... did they hike in from below the rocks near the top and up above them or did they hike to right underneath them? This area was closed from above when I skied at Vail last February so I didn't get a good look at it.

[simple]

So... did they hike in from below the rocks near the top and up above them or did they hike to right underneath them? This area was closed from above when I skied at Vail last February so I didn't get a good look at it.

They went in the gate way way below the rocks at the top.

This case is going to drag on forever. Those kids knew it was a risk and they paid for it with one of them dying. We don't need any more signs goddammit. It always slides as said previously.

[userA]

pretty fucking simple till it's not.
maybe a little signage and some proactive flushing is in order for those chutes.
blunt force trauma is trickier to control.
those are my ideas for change
bobby

[icelanticskier]

ideas for change? meh, death works just fine. always has, always will. people die, other people listen, till they get dumb again..........and so on......

rog

[userA]

see rog that is not change
that idea is the same old same old

how bout another idea rog might like,
cattle wire strung up oneside down the other, voltage set high enough to deter but not enough to kill. for rogs' sake they dont have to post signage, let ole darwin get the message out.
just another idea
bobbyf

[icelanticskier]

now you are just complicating things bobby. but complicating things is the world we live in. fall for it or don't, i don't.

rog

[that dude who did that thing]

Any time someone who is grieving says anything remotely like "we need to make sure this can never ever happen again' they should be treated with empathy but otherwise completely ignored. Their suggestions should be viewed as a step in their grieving process but given no weight or credibility whatsoever.
.
.

That ^^ is realy all that needs to be said about this story. Grieving parents, desperately trying to hvae their son's pointless, random death attain some meaning. Can't blame the, but not worth listening to, either.

[danimal's dead]

We should all wear shock collars and little GPS units, whenever a skier steps out of bounds or into a closed area they get shocked.

[mtngirl79]

ideas for change? meh, death works just fine. always has, always will. people die, other people listen, till they get dumb again..........and so on......

rog

How many people... Do not think TGR posters.... but every day people, kids, teenagers, vacation skiers heard about this story? Then how many followed up, figured out where this happened, and how they could avoid the same predicament themselves? How many will remember it the next time they go skiing? How many would be able to apply knowledge of this accident at Vail to a different resort with different topography?

I have never skied at Vail, so I have no idea how "stupid" what these kids did was, but what is the harm in a sign?

I do wish that the grieving loved ones of these deaths.. this one, the winter park death, and those like them would focus their energy on promoting avalanche education in the memory of their lost family member...

Do mountain towns have avalanche education in schools? It would be really great if they did... sounds like a good project.. lots of Avy savy people here... is there a program that goes into the high schools or Jr high schools and spends an hour or two talking to them about avalanches?

[icelanticskier]

yer potentially opening up a can o worms there mtngirl. how bout we talk about you and me

or has leroy sparked your interest? no matter, how bout it?

rog

[mtngirl79]

yer potentially opening up a can o worms there mtngirl. how bout we talk about you and me

or has leroy sparked your interest? no matter, how bout it?

rog

What can of worms?

[icelanticskier]

What can of worms?

talk slower please :-*

pm me for details

rog

[userA]

young lady it is not the towns responsibility to evoke mandatory mtn. safety on it's youth.

[icelanticskier]

for the love of god bobby, don't cock block me. mtngirl is in good hands, don't worry

rog

[mtngirl79]

for the love of god bobby, don't cock block me. mtngirl is in good hands, don't worry

rog

I am not in your hands, rog, and Alpy is happily married to a very sweet lady.

[summit]

This area that slid is referred to by locals as the sanctuary. It is the only true steep skiing on Vail Mountain and is a permanent closure. All of the lines in there are short, like 150 feet long at most, but it's like skiing slot rocks area at Crested Butte. Everything you ski there ALWAYS slides and funnels down little chutes. If you let your tails go in this area, you WILL slide down head first. I guarantee that is what happened. Everything there funnels into thick trees. It's unfair to call this an "avalanche death", as it sloughed out and he crashed into trees. I feel bad for the kid, but there is only one solution here. Education.

The people to blame are those that think a ski area is a safe amusement park. It's not, it's a mountain in Colorado.

Couldnt have said it any better.

Education covers both problems. Unfortunately, its hard to get the first message, and nearly impossible to change peoples' attitudes.

Sent from my TI-89

[covert]

Ski areas in the states have a responsibility to manage access to avalanche terrain within their boundaries. The right or wrong of that is a different issue. If you accept responsibility for mitigating avalanche hazard you must accept responsibility for managing access.

Rule number one of managing access is that you have to forecast for the lowest common denominator. If they can get there and claim ignorance of violating a closure, they will.

That being said, the standard for what constitutes reasonable "access management" varies from place to place. I'm not super familiar with vail because it sucks.

Don't know to what degree the parties concerned may have been aware they were pushing the envelope of what was open. It is not uncommon for ski areas to post "no hiking above traverse" or "no uphill" travel signage near gates. It sucks to have to do that but that is what the lowest common denominator requires.

Bunion highlighted the idea that this sort of in-bounds avy hazard is unusual for vail. Blurred says that shit always flushes and it's a permanently closed area. One would think that VRI would have the resources to pay someone to expect the unexpected. Avalanche forecasters are pretty cheap compared to quads.

An in-bounds avalanche accident is my worst nightmare so i focus on that problem intensely.
Perhaps that makes it easier to point the finger of complacency. Sorry, throwing stones is bad form. It sucks that another guy that loved skiing pow died. We need people like that to live and spread the gospel.

Ski areas can not and should not shoulder all of the burden. Personal responsibility needs to be a cornerstone of risk management. With respect to avalanche hazard, I think the Forest Service and the the law has done a good job of upholding that principle...so far.

[baron]

may have been mentioned allready,but...NO UPHILL HIKING signs seem to work well at the bird & alta;placed along traverses,near tempting areas.

[jfost]

I am not in your hands, rog, and Alpy is happily married to a very sweet lady.

if you think figuratively, you may well be... disturbing, but possible.

[leroy jenkins]

for the love of god bobby, don't cock block me. mtngirl is in good hands, don't worry

rog

Just show her video of your skiing. I'm sure seeing you in perfect control drives all the women wild.

[Bunion 2020]

may have been mentioned allready,but...NO UPHILL HIKING signs seem to work well at the bird & alta;placed along traverses,near tempting areas.

They cost about $12.00 each when you buy them by the dozen, cost little to nothing to maintain and lets face it, if you do not put them out, people take the "it is easier asking for forgiveness in the wake of their transgressions" if a sign isn't present. Not saying such a sign would have prevented this incident, but it would really make the Risk Manager for VA's life much easier.

This is from a Patrol Director who despises unnecessary signs and ropelines.

In the case of Silverton you generally speaking have a pretty avalanche savvy clientele, at Vail you have a mainly Fazutin clientele.

[meatspicy]

saying they are going to make changes would basically be an admission of guilt, and would probably fuck them over in court

its terrible that the kid died, but skiing is dangerous and people make mistakes in the mountains and die sometimes. no mountain in the world can mark every tree/rock/slidepath. and there will always be idiots looking for a gap in the ropes, where it 'didnt say it was closed.' at some point people need to use their own judgement

the kids made a mistake by hiking uphill and a shitty thing happened. RIP little dude

[icelanticskier]

I am not in your hands, rog

not yet, patience sweetheart

rog