Who here grew up with both parents (not due to death)?

[Hugh Conway]

And the flip side....

I have plenty of older friends and family without kids, most are doing very well with their decision.

Sister-in-law and husband have a great time together and enjoy what they like to do together. Always want to see the kids and have a good time with them but they are quite happy doing what they do and playing with their toys. I love hanging out with them, working on my rigs (he is a good mechanic) and RVing together when we get the chance.

Most gay and lesbian friends are cool with it, one of them it seems a sensitive subject. But she is sensitive.

It is of course a personal choice and being comfortable with the choice is what it is all about. Pros and cons on both sides, just depends what is right for you. Whatever the choice, don't have kids or don't because of the pressure you feel from society. That is a recipe for heartache.

So System/Advres I am glad you are doing what is right for you. Just stop being such a whiner, jeez

quit being so fucking patronizing

[skiballs]

Nice fucking troll there sysadverse .
What are your gona name your kid ?
I give you 3 yrs and you will be a dad .
Don't bullshit , a bullshiter .

[Rip'nStick]

Sp having kids is the responsible, intelligent decision? I know more people that have kids who shouldn't than the other way around. But right, they're being unselfish with strong character and making the toughest decisions in the world.

Nope, not the responsible, intelligent decision. My decision. Which knowing me is likely not the most intelligent or responsible. But I do believe raising good kids is the single most important thing you can do for this world. I like to think I have a good shot at it. I know a few people that shouldn't have had kids, but not many. I tend to stay away

You people are so goddamn ridiculous and the sad fact is you are just doing what society ingrained in you since you were a bastard kid yourself. Again, in this day and age there is ZERO reason for the majority of the population to breed except for 100% purely selfish reasons.

Once again, no. Never felt pressure to have kids. Wife and I were not going to. Decided later that is what we wanted to do and that it was right for us.

[Rip'nStick]

quit being so fucking patronizing

me... never

[TahoeJ]

And having kids to give your life purpose isn't a copout. kewl.

Nice selective quoting, shit-head. Same paragraph I also said: "This isn't why I had kids"

[MMP]

my dad died when I was nine and I have two kids that I adore. I had them because i like kids, always have. Their innocence while little is a beautiful thing. When they start to have it stripped away it's tough.

I'm divorced (married almost 20 years) and the main reason I got divorced is because what i do best is parent (IMO), and my poor marriage was affecting my ability to be positive and happy, which I am now in spades (mostly), and to be a good parent. I was pissed all the time and there was tension in the air when we were together. The kids seem better off, but time will tell.

[Flyoverland Captive]

Different strokes for different folks. Not all no-child couples made the choice because of bad childhoods.

My parents have been happily married for 48 years, and raised four of us in a happy, stable, fun home. None of my siblings (or myself) has kids, and none of us has even been close to wanting any; it's got nothing to do with a bad experience as kids, we just honestly don't have any interest.

ymmv.

[splat]

ZPG Now!

[Hugh Conway]

Nice selective quoting, shit-head. Same paragraph I also said: "This isn't why I had kids"

course it isn't. sorry, I have trouble keeping track of all the bullshit "why I have kids" ex post facto reasonings and excuses

now back to Marker Dukes vs. Fritschis vs. Dynafits, same shit different pacakaging.

[TahoeJ]

Another variation of this type of argument is the people who have 1 or 2 kids and the people who have 3 or more. My wife and I have 2 and as far as I'm concerned, that's plenty. People who have more are always so adamant about how great it is but I'm not sure I believe most of them. Like we're being recruited to join a cult (people without any kids are nodding right now).

I don't mean offense to anyone here with more than 2, but I'm tired of other people trying to sell my wife on this.

[systemoverblow'd]

So you're equating having 2 children with having none? It isn't even close to the same argument.

[Ted Striker]

Good looking kid there spook.

Skiballs for the win. Advres, you're young enough that you might change your mind (or meet a different woman who will change it for you). Or not. But it's still early in the game.

For me, parents split when I was 10(ish?) I have no kids, nor will I, but it isn't because of an unhappy childhood, and it isn't because I'm selfish. It's more along the lines of Flyoverland's post, we just aren't interested. The sign of not having conviction is rationalizing. When people are rude enough to ask me why I don't have kids, I simply say, "because I don't".

The thing about tgr is that it's 99% men, so you're just getting one side of the story, and most of it is after the fact. Women want children for the same reason as every other mammal on this planet. And men oblige for the same reason as every other mammal on this planet. Everything else is just bullshit.

[jgb@etree]

For the record, I fully support Advres' choice not to have children. I mean, christ, could you imagine the offspring?

You, sir, are the reason that birth control was invented. Your parents were likely the type of irresponsible d-bags you are referring to who have no business having kids, as they either weren't intelligent enough to take precautions against having kids, or they somehow decided they were ready (three times?!?) without having the maturity to keep their shit together and raise their children to be responsible adults & functioning members of society. I mean, look how you turned out. It's truly frightening to know that there are 2 more maladjusted miscreants running around out there who are probably just like you.

And no - I'm not knocking your parents for getting divorced, and most likely, it was not your fault. I get that shit - my parents split when I was pretty young and totally understand the big bundle of guilt that lands on the children of divorced parents - no matter how well the situation is handled. The fact that you still seem to be carrying that burden is alarming. While I normally enjoy saying dick-ish things to you, I seriously believe that you should consider getting some help with getting over that guilt. Most folks that I know from similar situations were over it by their early 20's, but I think a big part of getting over it comes with maturity and being able to look at life from a 10,000' view.

[Maximus Gradient]

...Haven't driven in over 5 years, take public trans almost everywhere...

Isn't that because you got hit with a bunch of DUIs back in the day? Pretty sure that doesn't make you earth-friendly and low impact; it just makes you stupid and irresponsible.

[systemoverblow'd]

Isn't that because you got hit with a bunch of DUIs back in the day? Pretty sure that doesn't make you earth-friendly and low impact; it just makes you stupid and irresponsible.

My past driving record has zero to do with me not driving a car right now. Nice to know you're keeping track and are a giant pussy that can't attack me with your normal screen name.

[Hugh Conway]

Isn't that because you got hit with a bunch of DUIs back in the day? Pretty sure that doesn't make you earth-friendly and low impact; it just makes you stupid and irresponsible.

hey, if the fuckers who can't make a condom work right can preach about how wonderful their choice to have kids was.....

[MMP]

It's also my opinion that lots of folks don't have kids because they think the rewards of parenthood do not outweigh the benefits of the life they have without kids. I was scared. The second my first was born that all went away instantly. It feels good to have lots of love in your life.

[GeezerSteve]

Yes having kids is not for the selfish, those of weak character, or without the ability to make tough choices and lead.

Calling bullshit on this. Many (IME most) people who have kids are selfish, are weak charactered, are poor at making tough decisions and are sheep.

Hugh, it is both impolite and ineffective to mention ex post facto rationalization for having kids. Guys on the work until you die program gotta say something. Give 'em a break.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Do you "non-kid" types ever wonder what the meaning of your life is? What are we here for? Seems to me that if you don't leave something behind, you might as well have not been here at all.

I'm here for the gangbang

Sent from my DROID2

[TahoeJ]

So you're equating having 2 children with having none? It isn't even close to the same argument.

No, it's not even close. But there is a similar aspect of denial involved. I'm glad I have kids, but when people say they never would want any I totally get that too. You know, as opposed to being judgmental about it just because I have kids.

[MMP]

we have lots of friends with no kids, and lots if friends because of our kids.

Some of the no kid folks we think are astute in owning their lack of parenting skills, and others that we think would be the most amazing parents and raise great humans. You never know of course, but the indications are there.

It makes you vulnerable though. Most here can relate to the loss of a pet. Seeing your kid busted up, in a cast, heartbroken, whatever...is brutal because you want to make everything better and can't. You love, you lose. Is it worth it? Only you can answer.

My youngest broke his thumb on the first day of lacrosse practice, he's a goalie and a freshman. He got the cast off today and I'm off to watch his first high school game (where he dresses, hope he gets in)

[montanaskier]

my folks got divorced when I was 2. They were married for 13 years. My wife and I have been married for 14 years. We just had our first and only child. I could have gone either way, had kids or not had them. Now that my son is here, I'm glad we had him. My life is pretty different but after 14 years of marriage, we were ready for that change.

[Yonder_River]

course it isn't. sorry, I have trouble keeping track of all the bullshit "why I have kids" ex post facto reasonings and excuses.

For guys that don't have kids, it can be a hard concept to understand. Sure, some guys have to rationalize the trap they found themselves in, but most well-adjusted guys are sincerely stoked after their first child is born and enjoy family life.

[Hugh Conway]

For guys that don't have kids, it can be a hard concept to understand. Sure, some guys have to rationalize the trap they found themselves in, but most well-adjusted guys are sincerely stoked after their first child is born and enjoy family life.

It's not particularly hard for me to understand the same people writing the same drivel about ski bindings, an iPhone, a luxury car, their profession or whatever other grand life decision they made. The scale may be different but the rationalizations, the condescending bullshit about understanding, and the prattle is all the same. Most people in our anglo culture are "happy" or profess to be "happy" about the decision they made whether or not on an objective level it was "the best" course. That's it, not much more needs to be said, but apparently I'm stupid for pointing out this obvious fact.

[powder11]

Now that I've read how awesome it is being a creepy, single, middle aged dude who think's he's still 20 something with an inflated sense of ego and can't hold down a relationship to save his life, I'm considering selling my kids. Boys. I've got two of them. Same age. Can go together or willing to part out for the right price. PM me offers.