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  1. #1
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    School me on fishing rafts

    Probably something I shouldn't do, waste of money, won't use it enough, pain in the ass to deal with/trailer/shuttle/store, etc, etc...

    ...but the thought of being able to do floats anywhere/anytime on my own schedule, get my fly onto water that rarely sees one, and not paying $400/day for it is very intriguing. If nothing else getting out on the river for a day and covering some miles sounds frickin awesome.

    Edumacate me on fishing rafts. I am thinking raft because:

    1) I live in Tahoe and we can have very skinny water here in CA west (like this summer) and I don't want to limit myself with a drift boat
    2) weight, ease of portage, handling, etc...
    3) I think I might be able to haul this thing on my sled trailer?
    4) I don't want to break the bank
    5) I don't want to shatter it into a million pieces when I inevitably put it sideways into a rock

    Comments, pro's & con's, drawbacks, regrets? Can I haul this on my 2-place? Do I need a winch or something? How hard are these things to maneuver/paddle and how hard will it be for me to learn navigate? I don't have much paddling experience but I have been out on several guided floats it doesn't seem like rocket science. I know there's mags here who have all the answers.

    The Outcast PAC 1300 or 1400 look pretty sweet. I like the casting platforms...

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    Remember this: no matter how much time, effort, energy, and cool shit you add to it, rod holders, lean bars, anchor, etc it will never be as nice to row or fish out of as a drift boat.

    I own a raft now and my next boat will be a raft as well for many of the same reasons you mentioned but make no mistake it is not and never will be a drift boat, something to keep in mind.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexi-Bell View Post
    Remember this: no matter how much time, effort, energy, and cool shit you add to it, rod holders, lean bars, anchor, etc it will never be as nice to row or fish out of as a drift boat.

    I own a raft now and my next boat will be a raft as well for many of the same reasons you mentioned but make no mistake it is not and never will be a drift boat, something to keep in mind.
    Yeah, understood. I did 3 days in a raft in BC and have done several days in drift boats. Drift boat just feels like it's more rigid, much smoother, more stable, and easier to row. They are also more expensive and definitely require a separate trailer. I have also done a day or two in a shitty drift boat, which wasn't that great. To me it seems like the minimum requirements for either would be: front/rear seats, leg hooks/lean bar, anchor, and preferably casting platforms.

  4. #4
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    The outcast rep lives in truckee and has a pac 1400 demo i believe. Shoot me a pm if you want me to put you in touch to check it out.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapt View Post
    The outcast rep lives in truckee and has a pac 1400 demo i believe. Shoot me a pm if you want me to put you in touch to check it out.
    PM sent, thanks

  6. #6
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    Around here, most outfitters running whitewater fishing trips are using Aire Superpumas and a variety of stock or custom fishing frames. They handle great but it is the light weight and exceptional durabilty of the Aire raft that is making it the favored design. The two premier whitewater fishing runs, Teton Canyon and Bear Gulch, start with a 600 vertical ft rocky slide down into a canyon. It's crazy rough way to begin a float but the Superpumas hold up against this rather extreme abuse day after day. About trailering - I think assembling and disassembling a full fishing frame would be such a pain in the ass that trailering would be hard to resist.

    As for the "how hard is this?" When you say raft, I assume this means whitewater. Although your raft may not "shatter into a million pieces when I inevitably put it sideways into a rock", getting a pinned raft off a rock in the middle of rapids is no joke either. Neither is a swim in an ice cold rapid. It may not seem like rocket science but, believe me, oarsmanship and reading whitewater is an aquired skill set as are the rescue (and self-rescue) skills you need to know. Knowing how to paddle a canoe does NOT translate over to oars. Up here, you'lll find plenty of barely used drift boats. Why? Rowing to slow down a boat for drift fishing is an all day battle against the current. It is hard work and really wears on the lower back and arm joints. Older, out of shape guys buy a fancy Clacka and quickly discover that they really liked wading more than they knew. Your guides made it look easy just like a well conditioned, expert skier makes bumps look easy. Whitewater, however, is far, far less forgiving than moguls. It is a dynamic system. The avalanche is already in progress. Never forget, a cubic meter of water weighs 2000lbs and when that sort of weight is moving against you, well, even Class I water will kill you and kill you quick. A friend of mine died in Class I last year.

    If you don't know the difference between an eddyline and a z-line, don't try and fake it. Find mentors, row with them. Whitewater scenes have a pretty good sense of community and many of the regional groups that organize floats and river cleanups also put together skills and safety/rescue clinics.
    Last edited by neckdeep; 03-13-2012 at 11:52 AM.

  7. #7
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    Good advice ^^^ I believe those outcast boats are puma or superpuma rafts with fishing frames. Also it might worth investing in a day with a guide for a rowing clinic.

  8. #8
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    Yeah I absolutely would try to get time paddling sections on mellower water before jumping into anything crazy. And I don't really want to be fishing, let alone floating, anything that is too crazy anyway. Not underestimating the power of moving water or difficulty of negotiating a large boat but I think I would be able to learn it. Seems like similar skills needed to riding a sled in deep pow or driving my mastercraft: anticipation, using weight of the machine, currents, gravity, etc...

  9. #9
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    Rowing requires thinking in reverse from kayak/canoe paddling. These and your sled are momentum forward, oars are momentum reverse. You must row constantly to maintain reverse momentum against a never ending pressure from behind. If you can sit backwards on your sled and ride it upstream into a slide that is pushing you downhill through obstacles, then I guess a sled is good analogy. When you are using your mastercraft on a lake, that water is essentially static and, thus, has no weight as far as you are concerned. Most river novices under estimate the force of moving water because they have no concept of its weight (cubic meter = 2000lbs) until it is falling downhill onto them. A raft highside pinned on a rock in a modest Class II dropoff can have a weight of 2000-4000 lbs so it's not something you want to casually stumble into.
    Last edited by neckdeep; 03-13-2012 at 12:56 PM.

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    Seconded on the Watermaster. I own two kodiaks. If it is convenience, portability and economy you want, Watermasters are the way to go. No need to find a partner to share rowing duties in order to go fishing. I would not recommend them for high volume whitewater or skinny whitewater that is continuously swift and shallow.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by neckdeep View Post
    No need to find a partner to share rowing duties in order to go fishing.
    but you still need a shuttle?

  13. #13
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    Shuttles are available for many floats around here, $20-40. Shuttle costs have cut into my solo floating, I'll admit, I did it more 10 years ago when shuttles were $15-20. In fact, I now spend most of my fishing time wading my local river because it's great fishing and wading close by to home keeps my trip costs around $5-20 depending on flies used up. Drift boating makes my trips cost more. More gas. Shuttles. Giving flies away to your passengers who keep breaking them off in the bushes as you float past. There's plenty of room for a cooler so now you've got to spend money filling that up too. Suddenly you are burning up $50 every time you wet a line. Eventually, the novelty of the drift boat wears off. You realize that unnavigable streams offer more solitude and dumber fish. Hiking wilderness streams is better conditioning for ski season than rowing and drinking beer. Keeps you tougher and more connected to nature than any boat bitch. So I gave my drift boat to my brother and bought my watermasters for the times when I need a boat. So many friends have drift boats, no need for me to have one taking up space in the driveway too.

    Anyhow, with gas prices these days, a shuttle fee isn't too much worse than fuel for a second vehicle and driving the shuttle lap, especially if the river is any real distance from home. I wouldn't know anything about what it is like around your parts. The local guides and shop owners can tell you who is a trust worthy service in your area or whether a given boat ramp is targeted by meth heads for breakins and vehicle thefts and is to be avoided. Keys and cash are in the car when you hire a shuttle! Not a good idea in some places.
    Last edited by neckdeep; 03-13-2012 at 05:44 PM.

  14. #14
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    We are pretty lucky and have several other families who like to float so that has eliminated the need for costly shuttles. Many folks invest in small motorcycles with a bumper mount, others hitchhike, you'll figure out what works best for you. I started floating for the thrill of whitewater, then for the fishing, and now I feel like it is worthy of being an activity unto itself, especially with a young family doing overnighters.

    Aire makes a great boat, I own a 143r and love it except for the floor. In an attempt to add balast to the boat in whitewater situations the floor is designed to take on water and hold it to add weight and reduce flipping of the boat. When I was running whitewater regularly this added stability and was great however now I use this boat primarily for fishing and the added weight and drag of the floor make rowing more difficult. Aire now makes a sealed floor pocket if you are looking at a new boat.


    I know aire marketed the super puma as their fishing boat for a long time, and many of their outcast fishing packages are based on them, however I feel with three adults, gear, cooler, etc those boats can be a bit small, especially on the side to side stability department. If you are running skinny technical water, a smaller boat may be what you are after, but as neckdeep said so well, the #1 idea is safety.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierraskier View Post
    but you still need a shuttle?
    Good advice across the board. I bought a Watermaster Kodiak last year. Still getting used to it but nice boats! Most of the floats I have done have been somewhat easy to bike. I stash, hide and usually lock, (to a tree), my bike at the end of the float...drive to the put in and bike back up at the end. My mtn bike is old and shitty so if someone has the nerve to steal it won't kill me, I'll just be pissed about the walk or hitch. Obviously, long floats or stretches away from a paved or forest road won't work for the solo bike shuttle. Also, you'll have to leave the watermaster while you shuttle unless you wanna bike all that weight on the bike....I wouldn't. A pack big enough to hold your fishing gear, oars, (this is a little awkward) and any other misc shit from the boat does the trick. I lock the watermaster to a tree. No problems yet. Any float with more than 5 or so miles of biking I rule out or call a shuttle, but I am a bit of a lard ass and really don't care much for biking.

  16. #16
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    Lots of good advice in here. I'll chip in. I've owned rafts and drift boats for well over a dozen years now and your insight is correct. A raft is far more versital than a drifter but, won't necessarily do better in "skinny" water. A lot of drifties track in very little water. Learning to row in a raft is a lot more foregiving yet, just, if not more dangerous because of the places you can access. A drifter is going to limit access so I say go with a raft.

    Your sled trailer will work for your raft. Ideally, you can keep your raft inflated as that is the prefer ed method to store it and it's quick on/off the water. As for casting platforms and braces--I hate them. More weight, more shit to hang you line up on. Less is more. Do go with a collapsable frame for those pack in/ fly in trips and so you can make adjustments for over nighters etc.

    Brands/value: My favorites are Sotar and Maravia and you'll pay for them, big time. Aire is the best quality/value proposition IMO and have a killer 10yr warranty. I don't like the super puma's due to the witdth. Too skinny for me and not enough room for multiple days but, they have other models. Also, consider Tributary which is Aires value brand. Same boats with fewer chambers and only a 7 year warranty I believe. I think the out-casts are private labeled by Aire are equivalent to the Tributary's. Not positive though.

    Around here boats hold their value well if you care for them. Great discussion on brands, prefences and classifieds at mountainbuzz.com Poke around over there and you'll find lots of answers. Good luck, my raft is one of my favorite and prized possessions in the world, more so the places it has taken me.

  17. #17
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    Great info, thanks guys. Good to know the sled trailer can be put to use in the summer. Like I said in the original post, I'm well aware this is not a fiscally responsible purchase. I have been wading for 15+ years and this just seems like the logical progression, or at least something I'd like to try until the novelty wears off. I'm actually hoping it will force me to get out for extended days and see more rivers, and some overnighters sound frickin awesome. I'll do a little more inquiring locally with people more familiar with our local waters here in Nor CA/NV to see how logistically feasible it is. My guess is it will be.

    roikarma, interesting feedback on the casting platforms/braces. at least from a client perspective, I have fished from rafts (without bars) and boats, and I've always liked being 1) up higher on the water and 2) on a stable platform to cast from and 3) being to lock legs into something for added stability. I can see how the bars could hang lines up easier but I was thinking the pros would outweigh the cons. Food for thought.

    I am trying not to break the bank and form my interwebz searching so far, the Outcast PAC 1300 and 1400 look pretty dope. Turn-key package with everything for right around $5K. Assuming this all works out, aside from an anchor, what else do I need?





  18. #18
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    I could go on about this but a couple of things

    a. $5K is a lot of money for that, do you really need new?

    b. Those outcast frames are overpriced.

    c. Think about what your really will use it for, without having a fleet of boats

  19. #19
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    Other stuff:
    PFDs. - buy a nice comfy one for yourself and 2 cheaper, adjustable ones.
    Extra tie Down straps
    Decent knife that fits somewhere on you're pfd or nearby
    Throw bag
    Dry storage - hard or soft,(dry bag).
    Spare oar

  20. #20
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    Dec 2010
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    Someone competent to teach you to row/read water
    Swiftwater rescue class

    http://community.nrsweb.com/gear-swap/
    http://www.mountainbuzz.com/swap/showcat.php?cat=3

    Oh and go Self-bailing (don't think I've seen that mentioned yet).

    5k can get you a LOT of boat better than the outcast IMO.

    If your primary reason is for fishing I'd buy this off of the sotar hot sheet. Blackfoot Strike. Designed by a friend here in Missoula. Bad ass boat
    10018 13'6" Drk Green/Blk STRIKE $4,397 6 YR NEW/2nd WIB 0-L $3,737

    and build out an NRS fishing frame w/ stern and anchor system. No braces or platforms. Throw in a couple sticks and tie downs and you're right at 5k with a much much better boat.

    As for platform/braces: I think they take up too much room, add too much weight, and are an additional penalty box in whitewater. We fish sitting down for the most part but the floors are generally solid enough to stand on. If we're long lining to rising fish sometimes we'll stand on the tubes or cooler but, can generally shoot as far sitting as standing. With a raft the rise and rocker are low enough that it's not as critical that you have to stand to get over the bow/sides.

    I wouldn't want all that rowing through this: (alberton gorge outside of Missoula MT) and I love to fish the WW cause a lot of fishermen with boats won't row it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by riokarma; 03-16-2012 at 01:29 PM.

  21. #21
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    First, I agree with pretty much everything that has been said so far. $5k sounds like a lot for that setup though - you can get a drift boat for damn near that, with a lifetime warranty. I love mine and it sure hasn't got old yet. There is always new water to take a raft/boat to, and it really opens up possibilities if you are wanting to explore.

    But a big key is - do you have a reliable buddy you can go with, that you can teach to row, or learn to row together with? Neckdeep mentioned it above - don't underestimate this factor. Nothing more pathetic in my view than some dude anchored in his drift boat in the river fishing by himself. Wading at that point is 1000x better. Just my opinion.

    Or the other option is that your friends will love you, and you will spend all your time rowing as an unpaid guide. Don't think a "few quick lessons" is going to cut it unless you are in flat water. As pointed out above, even class I can get hairy if the oarsman is a noob. Believe it.

    Any way you go - spend a bit more than you think to get quality. These things hold their value well if you take care of em, so it's not like you're shit outta luck if it doesn't work out for you. Have a great time!!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by riokarma View Post
    Oh and go Self-bailing (don't think I've seen that mentioned yet).

    5k can get you a LOT of boat better than the outcast IMO.

    If your primary reason is for fishing I'd buy this off of the sotar hot sheet. Blackfoot Strike. Designed by a friend here in Missoula. Bad ass boat
    10018 13'6" Drk Green/Blk STRIKE $4,397 6 YR NEW/2nd WIB 0-L $3,737

    and build out an NRS fishing frame w/ stern and anchor system. No braces or platforms. Throw in a couple sticks and tie downs and you're right at 5k with a much much better boat.
    Just sharin' my 2 cents...

    I sold my NRS E-140 late last summer and we splurged on a 14'6" SOTAR Blackfoot Strike. She's a sexy boat. I worked with who I am sure is riokarma's friend in Missoula, as well as directly with SOTAR. Pretty bad-ass to have a number of conversations about a boat with the dude who designed the boat AND who fishes out it several hundred days a year.

    riokarma - next time you talk to your buddy, please pass on a HUGE thank you from the Bozeman guy who bought a Strike from him last fall.

    I had to modify my older NRS fishing frame somewhat due to the lesser beam on the SOTAR (the NRS was shaped like a tugboat), but I am really happy with the set-up. I definitely did not fish it as much in the late fall as I would have liked, but did get out a few times in it in addition to a number of family floats. Performance-wise, it is a fun and nimble boat to row. Not quite the jaw-dropping results I had expected going from a tank like an NRS to it, but it was still noticeable.

    More importantly, I can say that the boat-build is 100% top notch, and the crew at SOTAR was unbelievable to work with. Incredibly helpful and accommodating.

    On the other hand, I've spent a lot of time in Lexi-Bell's AIRE, both rowing it and fishing from it, and I really like that boat too. If you can find an AIRE at a good price, certainly don't pass it up.

  23. #23
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    Lot's of great info, this thread is legit. Thanks all. Definitely worried about learning to row and having reliable peeps to go with. And worried about being the unpaid guide because I will be the only one I trust to navigate. But...I will probably do a few guided trips and try to get some instruction, and then try and stick to very easy water, at least for a while, to mitigate risks/stress until I get some time under my belt.

    Been thinking about it over the last week or so and I love to fish and that has only increased in the last few years...and I don't see it slowing down. This is going to be something I will do until I can't walk anymore. Worst case scenario is I do some floats and then don't use it much and then sell it. Best case scenario is I start doing it more, maybe make some new friends that are as dedicated as I am and love to fish, I explore new waters around the area, do some amazing floats and a few overnighters, see rivers and water I NEVER would have seen otherwise and have a blast. To brace/platform or not...more to think about.

  24. #24
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    I am jealous....might not be much of a reason to even own a boat in CO before too much longer.
    "We had nice 3 days in your autonomous mountain realm last weekend." - Tom from Austria (the Rax ski guy)

  25. #25
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    I have owned 2 drift boats. Right now I'm in the market for a raft, but if I had to choose either owning a drifty or a raft, I would go with the drifty. They are way easier to row, the glide better, there's no fussy straps to get flies snagged on, no inflating, etc. You pull up to the put in, drop her in and you are ready to float. I hate standing in a raft and fishing sitting down gets old. The storage on a drifty is so much better. Dry storage really helps, and proper rod holders make it more easy to grab that streamer rod that's all rigged up, or switching to your dry fly rod when noses start appearing.

    However, if you don't have water around you that people regularly use drift boats, then a raft is a sweet way to go. You can definitely access more water than a drift boat. But keep in mind that certain drift boats definitely don't draw much water at all. I've taken mine down some pretty skinny water. The downside is that they are not forgiving as rafts if you get in some sticky situations, like if you pin an oar, lose an oar, or miss a stroke. Once water starts coming over the gunnels, you are ruined and will probably lose your boat for good.

    Also, I got a screaming deal on a 99 Hyde Hybrid for $3K. The used rafts I've been checking out seem to be more than what I paid for my drift boat.

    As someone else mentioned, if you don't have friends that can row, or at least learn to row with you, you might want to rethink getting a floatable altogether. It's a real skill to row correctly for fishing. I have raft guides that can row some serious whitewater, but can't row for fishing for shit. It's completely different. If you are the only one that knows how to row properly for fly fishing purposes, then rowing your friends around while they fish gets really old, really quickly.

    my 2 cents...

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