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Thread: Never Forget

  1. #1
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    Never Forget

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4210841.stm

    FUCKING ODIN! Don't puss out when the going gets tough! It is a hard subject!!

    Anybody that's interested in what I had previously to say has now heard it.

    Personally, I was getting ready to hear a detailed trip report from HR's tour of Dachau (HINT HINT)
    "It is not the result that counts! It is not the result but the spirit! Not what - but how. Not what has been attained - but at what price.
    - A. Solzhenitsyn

  2. #2
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    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  3. #3
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    I am dissapointed that he did that as well. To me that is what a thread like that is about, sharing different viewpoints and thus coming to (hopefully) a greater understanding and appreciattion of our own history.
    steezarific!!

  4. #4
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    DAmn, I had jsut written a bunch about something that really upset me. In a nutshell: I was pissed at rememberance day because a war vet tried to give a speech in the student commons area and nobody listened to him, they just sat there and talked about their new Von Dutch cap or iPod and ignored this guy who tried to explain the shit that people on both sides of the war had to deal with ie sitting in the mud with bits of your friend scattered about you. I was irate. I could see how frustrated this poor man was at the fact that people will just ignore the nasty bits of their history because it is not nice to htink about and as a result the mistakes leading to wars and extermination camps are forgotton or caracaturized and made trite and unrealistic.

    Yes there are loty more that I could talk about with attrocities that are put under the carpet but I just wish the basic step of acknowledging the most obvious of war actions/crimes would happen in my generation.
    Recently overheard: "Hey Ralph, what were you drinking that time that you set your face on fire?"

  5. #5
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    I understand, but I posted that as a memorial not as an outlet for people to compare atrocities.

    I am fine with pulling it, and that is all I have to say on the subject.

    Now as far as worst atrocities go, lets talk aboot the Hitittes what happened to those guys. A whole culture whiped out.
    Or perhaps the Worlds Ignoring of the Aids Epidemic in Africa.
    Or perhaps the Muslims vs the Jews XIXX, that has been going on so long that even Jeebus wasnt around for the first happenings.
    Or perhaps the gulag
    or perhaps Haiti
    Or Rwanda
    Or Bosnia
    Or Uzbekistan
    or Chairman Mao China
    New Japan and genocide on Old Japan
    US vs Natives US vs Chinese
    England vs Everybody
    India vs Pakistan
    Muslim vs Hindu
    Abu Gharib
    Smallpox and blankets
    Black Plague
    The Creeks the Soiux and the Lakota
    Charlemagne
    The Slave Trade
    Romans with the Christians
    The Catholic church in general (atrocities 1 through 100 including their status of non involvment with the holocaust)
    The Mormon church and the reclassifying of dead individuals heritage


    (i just realized that I put three separate Us vs Native things on this list, that is how bad THAT was)

  6. #6
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    So I missed some scuffle about the Holocaust AND Hardrider went to Poland?

    Damn, I'm out of the loop...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemon boy

    Personally, I was getting ready to hear a detailed trip report from HR's tour of Dachau (HINT HINT)

    I am terrible at telling stories so Ill just say that these camps are one of the places people need to visit in their lives. Absolutley one of the most powerful experiences of my life. Another was the tour of the Anne Frank apartment in Amsterdam. Having read her diary one could totally visualize those poor people in their terror as the SS came up the stairs. Honestly, I think putting that personal face to something so huge and overwhelming is the best way to comprehend it, if comprehension is even possible.
    steezarific!!

  8. #8
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    In sixth grade some a holocaust survivor came to my class and told us some pretty greusome stories. He told us about how he held his friend up to a boxcar window so he could relieve himself. The guy was shot from outside the train and fell over dead on top of his friend. This was a 70 year old man balling his eyes out in front of 12 year olds. Seeing someone that old crying like a baby really helped me understand the gravity of that situation. I had learned about the holocaust in earlier years but nothing was quite as effective of a learning tool as seeing a grown man cry like that.
    Buy nice things here.
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  9. #9
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    When I was a kid ~12 I was over at a friend's house and noticed the family tree they had on the wall. On one side of his family nearly every line ended from the Holocaust. It definitely made a lasting impression.

  10. #10
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    I went to Dachau over 10 years ago when I was touring around Europe after my schooling in Scotland.
    That summer was one of the most carefree and truly happy times of my life, aside from the day at Dachau.
    I had read the stories etc. but standing in a creamatorium and seeing the housing and...
    I sat down on the sidewalk by the big history center and wept like a little girl.
    I am tearing up typing this.
    Man's inhumanity to man truly saddens and terrifies me.

    Our curent administrations rush toward facsim and refusal to obey the Geneva Convention makes me sad to be an American right now.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin
    I understand, but I posted that as a memorial not as an outlet for people to compare atrocities.

    I am fine with pulling it, and that is all I have to say on the subject.

    Now as far as worst atrocities go, lets talk aboot the Hitittes what happened to those guys. A whole culture whiped out.
    Or perhaps the Worlds Ignoring of the Aids Epidemic in Africa.
    Or perhaps the Muslims vs the Jews XIXX, that has been going on so long that even Jeebus wasnt around for the first happenings.
    Or perhaps the gulag
    or perhaps Haiti
    Or Rwanda
    Or Bosnia
    Or Uzbekistan
    or Chairman Mao China
    New Japan and genocide on Old Japan
    US vs Natives US vs Chinese
    England vs Everybody
    India vs Pakistan
    Muslim vs Hindu
    Abu Gharib
    Smallpox and blankets
    Black Plague
    The Creeks the Soiux and the Lakota
    Charlemagne
    The Slave Trade
    Romans with the Christians
    The Catholic church in general (atrocities 1 through 100 including their status of non involvment with the holocaust)
    The Mormon church and the reclassifying of dead individuals heritage


    (i just realized that I put three separate Us vs Native things on this list, that is how bad THAT was)
    Honestly, I wasn't trying compare attrocities. I was stating why many historians put the Holocaust on its own level, which is absolutley true. No other government has instituted a policy of cultural annhilation, ever.
    steezarific!!

  12. #12
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    this morning on Forum on KQED, a woman was talking about a program she runs where they bring Holocaust survivors into schools to talk to troubled teens, which seems to bring some vastly needed perspective to them.

    She said that she is no longer surprised when she asks students if they have heard of the Holocaust and only a few raise their hands.

    Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. I worry about younger generations and how they see the world, and how they must be so numb to violence with it all around them. They see their own administration using violence "to bring about peace" and that contradiction must be so confusing to them.

    Well put, LB. Never forget.
    “Within this furnace of fear, my passion for life burns fiercely. I have consumed all evil. I have overcome my doubt. I am the fire.”

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy
    Man's inhumanity to man truly saddens and terrifies me.

    .

    yep.


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    steezarific!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardrider
    Honestly, I wasn't trying compare attrocities. I was stating why many historians put the Holocaust on its own level, which is absolutley true. No other government has instituted a policy of cultural annhilation, ever.
    Umm. No. Many governments have practiced culture annhilation (Russia in the Ukraine comes to mind). The difference, to me, is the full use of all of the modern tools of "civilization" the Nazi's made in the Holocaust - the disgusting genocidal slaughter was organized with same precision as a rail network.
    Elvis has left the building

  15. #15
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    My carpool partner had never heard the name "Auschwitz." He is aware of the killings but didn't know the name of any of the camps. Sigh......I guess at least he was aware of this horrible bit of history HOWEVER...

    When we were discussing it he dismissed it as "something that happened a long time ago in another country."
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj001f
    Umm. No. Many governments have practiced culture annhilation (Russia in the Ukraine comes to mind). The difference, to me, is the full use of all of the modern tools of "civilization" the Nazi's made in the Holocaust - the disgusting genocidal slaughter was organized with same precision as a rail network.
    Not really any reason to bring that up here, dood.

    Let's focus on the big picture, eh?
    It's idomatic, beatch.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj001f
    Umm. No. Many governments have practiced culture annhilation (Russia in the Ukraine comes to mind). The difference, to me, is the full use of all of the modern tools of "civilization" the Nazi's made in the Holocaust - the disgusting genocidal slaughter was organized with same precision as a rail network.


    WORLDWIDE ANNHILATION. Did the Russians have plans to kill every Ukrainian on the planet? NO. The end to the "final solution" would have come with the death of the last Jew on Earth, thats the difference.

    Great point about the use of modern tools.
    steezarific!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornholio
    Let's focus on the big picture, eh?
    You mean that the same country that produced some of the greatest physicists of the 20th century produced some of it's biggest monsters? That an entire society was turned to the focused destruction of a single race and various "other" enemies? That's why I mentioned a rail network - it takes tens of thousands of people, hundreds of companies and precision to make a railway work - the nazis convinced germany to work together not for a greater good but ultimate evil, the organized methodical destruction that was the Holocaust.
    Elvis has left the building

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj001f
    You mean that the same country that produced some of the greatest physicists of the 20th century produced some of it's biggest monsters? That an entire society was turned to the focused destruction of a single race and various "other" enemies? That's why I mentioned a rail network - it takes tens of thousands of people, hundreds of companies and precision to make a railway work - the nazis convinced germany to work together not for a greater good but ultimate evil, the organized methodical destruction that was the Holocaust.
    During the early 40s the US government had almost all people of Japanese origin shipped off to camps. Their numbers, treatment and ultimate release are obviously as nothing compared to the suffering of the holocaust but I think it's interesting that it was that easy to accomplish in a country like the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  20. #20
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    3 years ago 2500 people were illegally detained in LA for up to 6 months due to their race/creed by the US Govmt. 300 people are STILL in a certain US Military Jail w/o being charged with a crime and having no legal representation.

    Interesting, or Frightening?

    The Nazis agenda was sold to the populace as "for their own good" as well, the jews mainly lionized for their moneylending and being landlords. Don't forget that Hitler's party was freely ELECTED... there was no coup.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit
    During the early 40s the US government had almost all people of Japanese origin shipped off to camps. Their numbers, treatment and ultimate release are obviously as nothing compared to the suffering of the holocaust but I think it's interesting that it was that easy to accomplish in a country like the US.
    Yup, and not only that, Chinese immigrants were subjected to abuse from Americans, believing them to Japanese. The Japanese-Americans were also stopped from joining the Armed forces for most of the war (Whether they were American born or native Japanese), but oddly when they were allowed , thousands joined up. Those who were imprisoned were also forced to either give up, or sell at extortionate rates, their property.

    I haven't visted Dachau, Sachsenhausen instead, but had a similar experiences to those listed above, though the thing that really stuck with me was the Neo-Nazi attack on one of the blocks. They were (I was told) trying to destroy the building claiming that it was perpetuating a false myth, that the attacks on the Jews by the Nazis didn't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy
    Man's inhumanity to man truly saddens and terrifies me.
    edg
    Do you realize that you've just posted an admission of ignorance so breathtaking that it disqualifies you from commenting on any political or economic threads from here on out?

  22. #22
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    Unhappy

    I was 14 years old when my pops took me to Dachau. The hardest part about being there was standing in the "showers" (gas chambers) and the crematorium and trying to comprehend that death was merciful for all the poor souls after all they suffered at the hands of the Nazis.

    Let us not forget Latin & South American atrocities, either. For some reason, that part of the world is forgotten easily.
    Balls Deep in the 'Ho

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13
    Let us not forget Latin & South American atrocities, either. For some reason, that part of the world is forgotten easily.
    Should any of you be lucky enough to go to Las Lenas look out for several round lakes to the right side of the road winding up to the area. The bodies of political prisoners from the local gaol were dumped there. Apparently it has never been possible to measure how deep these lakes are. Prisoners detained nearer the coast were often dumped over the Atlantic from military transport planes. Sometimes after their death but normally while they were still alive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet 2
    (insert mid-west or Southern racist term if you prefer)"
    What the fuck man. Racism isn't simply a Southern or Mid-Western thing. As a small-town kid from the Mid-West, I'm tired of the racist, red-neck, bush loving label.

    Yesterday I was reading the Minnesota Daily (student paper). I was reading the editorials, and there was a super conservative idiot (and he really is an idiot, not simply because he's conservative) who said that Jane Roe was sorry for causing the abortion Holocaust. Holocaust is the most misused word I hear these days, and I'm fucking sick of it. The Holocaust is not an analogy. It is a distinct event, and there is nothing else like it. It is disgusting insulting to hear it trivialized to make some opinionated jerk-off's point in a student newspaper. /rant.

    My mother's side is German. My father's side is a product of the Nazi occupation of Belgium during WWI. Because of the holocaust, I refuse to recognize my German heritage. I only accept my Belgian heritage. Visiting those camps is something I will do before I die, and I forsee that it will be added to the handfull of times I have cried.
    Last edited by FNG; 01-27-2005 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Because Bullet 2 is a spelling ninja
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  25. #25
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    Unfortunatley I didnt make it to a camp when I was in europe, I did however make it to the Jewish history museum, The SS headquarters and the parkinglot that was formerly the Bunker where hitler died (there is no recongnition what-so-ever) in berlin. one of the most erie feelings of emptiness Ive ever felt. How things could get that bad simply blows my mind.

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