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  1. #1
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    California HOA nightmare, HELP!!

    So We have a Condo in a pretty crummy complex in South Lake Tahoe. It is 36 units.

    About 4 years ago our HOA board members stole about $30k from the owners and left town.

    A new board was made and they are out of control. The main culprit is this 400lb evil miserable woman. The complex is about 30% foreclosed units, so the current board is having its way with votes as they send out proxy vote forms, they have the current hoa pres as an option, the others are fill in. every time enough lazy ass people give them voting power.

    Now, My HOA fee went up 20% because my unit is supposedly bigger than everyone else's, its not, they are all the same. I have no written anything showing, proving or anything. My bill just went up and I have to pay or it will go to collections.

    Now the fucking bitch (referred to as Tubba hereafter) sends out this voting form to add a shit load of rules to the CC and R's.

    Stuff like: No dogs over 20 lbs, no excessive traffic, only 15% of units can be rentals, no BBQ's, the color of your drapes, blah blah blah.

    Every rule is Tubba's way of harassing other home owners and renters. None of the rules are written with any legal input however they all have legs that allow Tubba to assess fines. So basically she can fine someone if she feels like it, there is no recourse or process whatsoever. Dont forget, this is a SLT shit hole complex. Most everyone is a renter that makes minimum wage. This is not a nice shi shi place.


    My specific Questions:

    Can a HOA be ran by its home owners and can said homeowners enforce rules?

    Can CC and R's be changed that easily? If so am I Grandfathered into the CC and R's that were in when I bought the place?

    How can I start fucking with the HOA, Im ready to give money to a lawyer. Im soooo fucking pissed.

  2. #2
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    I live in a pretty cool, layed back neighborhood. My HOA does come down on some owners doing short term rentals, which are against the rules. I am surprised they can pass any rules if they do not have a quorum of voters. Usually a certain percentage have to vote for the results of the vote to be binding. You should get a copy of your by-laws to see if this the case in your HOA

    I would bet you can contest the size of your unit. It could be on file at the local courthouse or municipality. If something is properly contested, I would doubt it could be sent to collections legally.

    Are the rules like the dogs, no bbq, etc written as bylaws?

  3. #3
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    Kill her. Implicate her cats.
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  4. #4
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    Can you just ignore this bitch and the hoa? What authoritay do they really have? A government is only powerful when it has the support of its subjects (coerced or actual)

    It's a fucking hoa, tell them to sit and spin. Whats the worst that can happen?
    Sent from my ADR6350 using TGR Forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunco perfectly summarizing TGR View Post
    It is like Days of Our Lives', but with retards.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhelihiker View Post
    So We have a Condo in a pretty crummy complex in South Lake Tahoe. It is 36 units.

    About 4 years ago our HOA board members stole about $30k from the owners and left town.

    A new board was made and they are out of control. The main culprit is this 400lb evil miserable woman. The complex is about 30% foreclosed units, so the current board is having its way with votes as they send out proxy vote forms, they have the current hoa pres as an option, the others are fill in. every time enough lazy ass people give them voting power.

    Now, My HOA fee went up 20% because my unit is supposedly bigger than everyone else's, its not, they are all the same. I have no written anything showing, proving or anything. My bill just went up and I have to pay or it will go to collections.

    Now the fucking bitch (referred to as Tubba hereafter) sends out this voting form to add a shit load of rules to the CC and R's.

    Stuff like: No dogs over 20 lbs, no excessive traffic, only 15% of units can be rentals, no BBQ's, the color of your drapes, blah blah blah.

    Every rule is Tubba's way of harassing other home owners and renters. None of the rules are written with any legal input however they all have legs that allow Tubba to assess fines. So basically she can fine someone if she feels like it, there is no recourse or process whatsoever. Dont forget, this is a SLT shit hole complex. Most everyone is a renter that makes minimum wage. This is not a nice shi shi place.


    My specific Questions:

    Can a HOA be ran by its home owners and can said homeowners enforce rules?

    Can CC and R's be changed that easily? If so am I Grandfathered into the CC and R's that were in when I bought the place?

    How can I start fucking with the HOA, Im ready to give money to a lawyer. Im soooo fucking pissed.
    I dont have my puter so i will keep it short for now. These guys are likely breaching a fiduciary duty that they have to the hoa which can bring personal liability (angel v. riss) Some people think that being on an hoa board is free reign to impose whatever rules they dictate regardless of prudence. Have a lawyer friend who can draft a letter alerting them to this fact? Ccandr's can only be changed via amendment as procedurally stated in the ccandr's. Its fairly legalistic so they are probably cutting corners. Hoa's like this are hell, not too many practical options besides getting the hell out of dodge or threatening some legal action to due a board breach. They are protected by the Business Judgment Rule but if they are acting as egregious as it sounds, maybe there is something to hang your hat on. I suppose you could try to start your own grassroots movement to stymie and quorum or vote they need to change rules. Some people will disagree with my final piece of advice but i have seen this types of actions balloon due to late fees and penalties. If you are unfairly assessed, simply pay the dues and fight AFTER with legal help. You can recuperate later, otherwise the hoa's attorney will just keep stacking bs on you.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chugachjed View Post
    Kill her. Implicate her cats.
    hmmm...


    The sick part is that this is only a fraction of the issues.

    I think the HOA can lien your property and they can definitely sue you.

    I have my bank sending checks on auto bill pay and she says I haven't paid in 3 months. I can only guess that she just throws the check away when it arrives.

    its mind bending. If anyone can recommend a decent N Cal Real Estate/HOA type of an Attorney, Im in.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dumpy View Post
    Can you just ignore this bitch and the hoa? What authoritay do they really have? A government is only powerful when it has the support of its subjects (coerced or actual)

    It's a fucking hoa, tell them to sit and spin. Whats the worst that can happen?
    Sent from my ADR6350 using TGR Forums
    No, you can't ignore them and yes they do have power. The creation of the HOA and the servitude and all that it entails is usually in the deed that you bought when you purchased the place. By purchasing the property you gave up that little bit of right or freedom/allowed them to impose whatever covenant . . . to the HOA when you took the deed.

    Ignore them and there can be plenty of consequences.

    Hire a good property lawyer. Speak to your neighbors (owners) and see if they've already done the same.
    I still call it The Jake.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by commonlaw View Post
    Some people will disagree with my final piece of advice but i have seen this types of actions balloon due to late fees and penalties. If you are unfairly assessed, simply pay the dues and fight AFTER with legal help. You can recuperate later, otherwise the hoa's attorney will just keep stacking bs on you.
    Sorry for the double post

    Are you saying that some might disagree with your last bit of advice because by paying the fines the property owner is giving creedence to the HOA's changes and might make it more difficult to prove down the road that there was hardship/objection if it makes it to trial? No problem with your advice (or argument against it), I just want to make sure I understand your post.
    I still call it The Jake.

  9. #9
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    is Der Poopenhausen an option?

    Isn't it better to keep the cash in your own possession when you know the fines are BS? Especially when you've been burned before to the tune of $30K???
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    No, you can't ignore them and yes they do have power. The creation of the HOA and the servitude and all that it entails is usually in the deed that you bought when you purchased the place.
    Wow that's lame.
    Fuck that noise, I'll take my (psuedo)governments with a side of checks and balances please. Not gonna deal with some semi-powerful tyrannical group.

    Call me a tin foil hatter, but this is why I vote Libertarian and refuse to live anywhere with an HOA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunco perfectly summarizing TGR View Post
    It is like Days of Our Lives', but with retards.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmillsSkier View Post
    Sorry for the double post

    Are you saying that some might disagree with your last bit of advice because by paying the fines the property owner is giving creedence to the HOA's changes and might make it more difficult to prove down the road that there was hardship/objection if it makes it to trial? No problem with your advice (or argument against it), I just want to make sure I understand your post.
    Good question, i wasnt clear. No, i dont think paying lends any credence to the hoa's power to levy the amount they seek and the plaintiff's case would not be hurt by doing so. I know its bad advice to say fuck em and not pay though. The hoa's attorney (likely some mill) will tack on bunches of fees and blow the principle balance through the roof prior to even getting in front of a judge and potentially creating added unnecessary issues for a sj motion. My advice, if the OP was to get a disproportionate charge, is to send the board a letter (keep a copy) disputing the charge and stating that if the charge isn't lowered to the common due amount, the OP will take legal action up to dispute, seek fees under the cc and r's and will bring personal claims against the board members. If they do not renege before the due date, pay it with a dispute notation on the memo line and then call an attorney.
    Sent from my MZ617 using TGR Forums

  12. #12
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    Yopu know what happens when you sue your HOA?

    They raise your monthly fees to cover the cost of the attorney they hire.

  13. #13
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    I suspect commonlaw was saying that some people might disagree with the advice because paying Tubba sucks. But it's the right way to go. You fail to pay you give the HOA a tool to use against you.

    Dhelihiker, start here: http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/condo_consumer.shtml
    Also, locate and read the CC&Rs and the HOA bylaws. You almost certainly have a right, under either the terms of those documents or California law to a copy of all amendments, and minutes of all HOA meetings. Tubba probably won't give them to you when you ask, which might give you a tool to use, if you have made the request in the right way. Every time they make a change, you surely have some form of protest/appeal right. Exercise it every time. Tubba probably won't follow the law on those, either, giving you another tool to use. And you'll have to start attending meetings, as much as that sucks. As to the monthly assessments, confirm with your bank taht they really are sending them. Explain that the recipient is claiming not to receive them, and see what records they can produce of sending them. If necessary, start sending by certified mail/return receipt. Tubba will have to actually sign for them, andyou'll get a receipt proving she received.

    In the alternative, make her life so miserable she either moves or becomes a recluse. A dead trout under her car seat. Relocate cats to her crawl space. If the cats don't do it, try to lure some raccoons in there. Water her front steps late at night. Mail her an empty envelope (no return address). Then another one, then one every day for a few days (the last one should be stamped "URGENT." Stop for a few days, then mail a larger empty envelope (or maybe a large envelope full of blank paper), and finally, an empty box. People like her are often on the verge of total breakdown, and you never know what might push her over the edge.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    In the alternative, make her life so miserable she either moves or becomes a recluse. A dead trout under her car seat. Relocate cats to her crawl space. If the cats don't do it, try to lure some raccoons in there. Water her front steps late at night. Mail her an empty envelope (no return address). Then another one, then one every day for a few days (the last one should be stamped "URGENT." Stop for a few days, then mail a larger empty envelope (or maybe a large envelope full of blank paper), and finally, an empty box. People like her are often on the verge of total breakdown, and you never know what might push her over the edge.
    I enjoyed this post.

  15. #15
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    three totally unrelated phrases.

    full vial of liquid

    food or beverage of her choice

    repeat until effective
    Forum Cross Pollinator, gratuitously strident

  16. #16
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    The joy of home "ownership". God bless the American dream!!!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Yopu know what happens when you sue your HOA?

    They raise your monthly fees to cover the cost of the attorney they hire.
    Exactly this. If you can't take over the board, the only real way to take her down is personally since all actions via the HOA will trickle back to you in the end.

    My 0.02, pay a random ski bum to act as your muscle. If tubba wants to act like a politician, let her deal with the realities of local politics like mafia intimidation. A brick through her window ought to straighten her shit out. Fight dirty. HOA's and their CCR's are typically so stacked against you it's just easier to send a message via alternative means.
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  18. #18
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    I was thinking the DRE may be of help, but it looks like they kind of stay out of it. Some info on HOA's here though:
    http://www.dre.ca.gov/sub_hoa.html

  19. #19
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    Sounds like they're trying to add new by laws ? I don't know of any HOA's that allow revisions without homeowner voting, not just board member voting. If that's the case tell them to fuck off.
    "You damn colonials and your herds of tax write off dressage ponies". PNWBrit

  20. #20
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    California is a no recourse state. Stop paying the mortgage & walk away. Do it now because the Banking/Wall St lobby have been spending MILLIONS trying to change the law. I wouldn't be surprised if CA becomes a full recourse state in the next year or two. Then you're really fucked.

  21. #21
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    I don't know if things are different in CA, but here in CO the board (especially one person) can not modify the covenants & by laws without a specific majority approval (66% or 75%). The Board can create Rules & Regulation that coordinate, but not over rule the Covenants & Bylaws. But, again, one person on the board can not (or should not) mandate these changes.

  22. #22
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    Thanks for reminding me to check in and see if ours has any plans to meet. Last meeting was in 2009, but they keep collecting fees, a whopping $120/year. Last info is we had over $40k in the bank, with basically nothing to spend it on, but keeping it in the bank to replace the irrigation system that gives us all a spigot of free water in our back yards. One guy violates cc&r's by keeping a backhoe parked in his driveway, but then he plows out anybody that needs it after big dumps...One woman wants to change the covenants to allow chickens.
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OSECS View Post
    Sounds like they're trying to add new by laws ? I don't know of any HOA's that allow revisions without homeowner voting, not just board member voting. If that's the case tell them to fuck off.
    It sounds like from what the OP says that the board chair is getting proxy votes for lazy and/or vacant (i.e. foreclosed) units. It's entirely possible that Tubba could effectively hold a majority vote all by herself.

    Like others have said, there are ways to pursue this in Court. Those options are often complex and expensive. GTFO while you still can.

  24. #24
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    Wow thanks for the info

    Here is my game plan.

    Keep all documents, pay whatever bs they send me. As soon as it becomes too much money or too much harassment, go to small claims court, prove that all meetings and votes are not per the cc and r s and laugh and point. This next meeting to vote on the new rules did not follow the notification period stated, so it's not valid imvho nor is the vote

    The only thing that's going to put me over the top is the 20lb dog rule. My little pup weighs 60 and she is not big on dieting.

    I am also going to be much more involved in the hoa, i might run for president. That would be swell.
    Hello darkness my old friend

  25. #25
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    Running for the board is great idea. You will have better control and can implement sanity. That more than any other reason is why I am on my board. Whack jobs can ruin a community so fast it'll make your head spin.

    I don't know if it was mentioned by anyone, but try talking to the management company. They should know the legality of all the whimsical rule changes. You should press them on the community voting record for approval of this nonsense.

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