starting tech career in mid/late 30s...WWMD?

[Housed]

Yes, others have posted "what should I do with my career/life" threads before but since I'm a beautiful and unique snowflake I'm starting my own.

I'm looking to start a new career in the tech field in a few years. I'm become quite interested in networking, data security, and how information systems are protected and how they can be compromised. I am by no means a computer (I mean porno machine) prodigy, nor was I into it at a young age; but now I really like tracking down data online, fixing other peoples' minor computer issues, and basic troubleshooting of the networks at work and at home.

It's time for a job that's 9-5, Monday through Friday. Yes that sounds boring but I'm tired of living out of a storage unit and always being away from family and friends.

I would have to go back to school for this (either another bachelor's or a trade school) as I have no formal training and admittedly do not have the computer skills that a tech employer requires. I've been running around in shitholes with an M4 for a good part of the past decade so my resume reflects jack about tech abilities. I do have a BA in PoliSci (yeah, yeah, I know) and documented language learning ability so hopefully those will show I'm at least trainable.

I'm 33, with no kids or wife (but brand new Bros...heeeyyyooo!) so I'm only responsible for myself. My questions to you, dear mags, are as follows:

1) Will I be competitive for employment when I finish schooling/training at 37 or 38? I've always done well at school and will do well in this too, so grades won't be an issue. I know I'll be the old balls in the class and am unsure how prospective employers in this field will react to that.

2) Can any computer mags specifically recommend programs/schools/"man I wish I would've..." stories for a guy interested in getting a job in information security/assurance?

3) Where is DoctorWhat?

Alas, no sister, wife, or girlfriend boobies available for pics at the moment. Already halfway to being a computer nerd!

[teletripper]

I don't know what to say other then no pic's no advise. That is all for now.

[shroom]

certs > degrees
experience reigns

if you find networking interesting get a CCENT/CCNA. if its not too difficult for you, get a CCNP, etc.

The book study set for the CCNA is 30 bucks on amazon. reward/investment is spectacular IMO.

goodluck.

[4matic]

Age is no barrier for a good engineer. Trust me on that one..

I've been working around software and hardware engineers/technicians for a long time. Imo, what sets apart a great techie is their ability to document design, function, and support for their work; written documentation. Even if you are a crappy engineer if you document well you will be valuable.

We have excellent entry level techs from ITT tech institute that are very well trained.

[mobygrape]

It's possible to do well w/o a degree in CS ( or any degree, for that matter).

I've worked with High school grads, and a guy who dropped out and got a GED. Both either demonstrated aptitude, or started out at help desk, busted their balls, and kept working their way up.

My general recommendation is to read a bunch, know how to demonstrate you know what you are talking about in an interview w/o being a spaz, and work hard even if you are doing work below what you are capable of. And agreed, age is not a barrier in any company worth working for.

If you have a few years, plenty of time to work on skills. Mock interviews can be helpful if you've been out of the interview loop for a while. Just find an audience which can provide useful feedback, not just college roommates.

I don't myself believe that certification is a golden road. Agree experience is valuable Some employers value certifications, but others do not. If you have a certification, but are interviewing and miss hard questions which were not on the cert. exam, you're sunk. If you don't have the cert, but can demonstrate creative problem solving, I'd give you a better evaluation. It is quite dependent on the environment at the employer you are interviewing at.
Long winded answer, hope it was helpful.

[pepperdawg]

As stated above - Experience, Experience, Experience and certs to some degree. Employers are going to care if you have real world experience on XYZ Hardware/OS/Software. Or QRS Hardware/OS/Software because its similar to XYZ hardware/OS/Software and it shows you can learn but they don't need to start from square-one training you. (and most likely they cant find a better/stornger candidate)

A degree will help more if you are trying to get a gig as a systems or solutions architect. Engineer or Admin positions, though want real world experience.

Fields to look into : SAN Storage - Theres so much in that space new technology-wise right now its crazy. Appliances etc.

LINUX - get some experience/take a class or two and you should be fairly easily get a gig somewhere to start your career. Grab a junky old PC/Laptop and douche off the Windooze OS and install one of the many free LINUX distros out there and you have a playground to practice on. hint - CentOS essentially same as Redhat Enterprise Linux.

Best of luck - My career path (14 years in now) in my late 20's----took my 2 year Busines Admin degree.....got a job, learned an application in and out as an end user....learned about databases using MS Query, got some knowledge and took a gig as a Jr DBA...did it for 5 years...realized I liked the OS end of things(UNIX). much more then data - ...took a job as a Backup administrator, to further sterngthen UNIX/Infrastrurcture skills, 3 years as an Admin and Learned much much more and now a Sr UNIX Engineer.

I never did learn how to spell though.....as you can see from this rambling post...

Have taken many vendor specific classes on employers dime over the year too....that's par for the course. If it matter all my gigs have been big corporate financial services companies - except my current which is a major University.

Hope this helps in some way - best of luck.

[pepperdawg]

It's time for a job that's 9-5, Monday through Friday. .

One more thing - Technology gig means 9-5, but also usually On-call and weekend/overnight maintnence work are par of the course. Keep this in mind. I took my most recent gig a almost a 10% paycut because there is no On-Call.

On-Call can seriously fuck with work-life-home-fun balance. It gets old quick.

Just something to keep in mind.

[4matic]

One more thing - Technology gig means 9-5, but also usually On-call and weekend/overnight maintnence work are par of the course.

+1

Everyone in our engineering groups: Software, Network, Operations, and MIS are on call 24 hours a day. Management while on vacation also for the most part. Money never sleeps. The Operations team has it good and bad. They usually don't get called but have to make calls in the middle of the night to wherever and whoever that may be which sucks.

[SkiCougar]

since you already have a college degree, i would look into a certification school; rather than another degreee. then, try and find something and you'll just have to standout in the interview. there's a lot of people looking for jobs now, even in IT.

but i think if you'll take the time to figure networks out and apply yourself daily, you'll do well eventually. i'm a computer programmer and i am still amazed at how many in IT get by with no in depth knowledge. 1 guy that used to be my applications head and our IT dept head started from working as computer techs at the local computer store. if they can do it, anyone can.

[schuss]

Put your head down, try to get a position that gives you exposure to everything, as everyone will find a niche. Age definitely isn't a disqualifier, as there's a definite lack of good programmers, analysts and ops people EVERYWHERE. Don't worry about what your degree is in, half the sysadmins I know have english or history degrees.

If I have any advice, it's this: Never let anything go without understanding it and documenting the cause. This will both make you invaluable to an organization and teach you how everything works. In addition, it means you aren't "irreplaceable", so they're free to promote you at will. This is an important thing in tech - if you never make it so someone else can do something with no direction, no one else will ever do it.

[SkiCougar]

Put your head down, try to get a position that gives you exposure to everything, as everyone will find a niche. Age definitely isn't a disqualifier, as there's a definite lack of good programmers, analysts and ops people EVERYWHERE. Don't worry about what your degree is in, half the sysadmins I know have english or history degrees.

If I have any advice, it's this: Never let anything go without understanding it and documenting the cause. This will both make you invaluable to an organization and teach you how everything works. In addition, it means you aren't "irreplaceable", so they're free to promote you at will. This is an important thing in tech - if you never make it so someone else can do something with no direction, no one else will ever do it.

i'd like to highly second a lot of this.

first, age. the microsoft developers salary survey came out in january and the average microsoft developer is 46; so computers may seem like a young persons game; but its not.

and agree that if make your best effrorts to understand things(no matter how long it takes, you will become suprised at how many IT managers have no idea how long to estimate tasks and work; if you get the job done; thats all that usually matters) and DOCUMENT IT; that will help you and your career a lot. i cannot say how many things i am given that the previous programmers and managers have no idea what changes have been made, when they were made or how an application works. if you do that, you'll own it and you can delegate it too.

[RShea]

Your age is not an issue, even if you have to go back to school of some sort. As for the training and certs, it really depends on a few things. If you have no experience or knowledge in the field at all, then a good school (not one that pumps out students with paper certifications and no lab time or some sort of marketable work experience (internship, some work with a non-profit/charity, whatever) can help with the marketable skills. Could be a trade type school, a community college, a local college or even University. But many of the Colleges and the like may not do much with the certifications. Have serious discussions with the school you choose about their placement rates, if possible talk to possible future employers (the tech guys in the IT- not the HR people) about what they are looking for in entry level candidates.

If you enjoy it, and have a good aptitude for the area of work (some are just not cut out for it like any line of work), then there is no one path to getting into it. Get some books, spend hours on line soaking up as much as you can from web sites, and of course practice (even setting up your own lab and network of computer systems at home to work on and learn).

[mel221]

If you are starting a new career at 33, I would have to recommend nursing. I have known several people who started late and have been successful with their nursing career.

I am in the tech field as a software developer. It is a good field, but tech changes quickly so you must always be learning new stuff to keep up. Age discrimination may be a factor as well. I am about to find out myself.

A lot of companies like to hire hard working young kids and train them on the job. Those kids work cheap.

Nursing is also a career that is difficult to outsource.

For the effort and time you are going to invest, the medical field will give you more secure options as you get older.

[single]

Not related to your program, but I just wanted to chime in on the "non-traditional" student aspect.

I am in an engineering program where the average student age (as a senior) is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 years old. A lot of guys in, and coming out of military service. Most of the guys I study with are over 30, one dude is 40. They have had no problem getting internships and the like. Teachers always ask them to help grade and TA their classes. Admittedly they are generally hard working guys, but I get the same grades as them and never get "ins" like they do... at least to that extent.
In my somewhat limited job experience (yet to have a career as I am a student) knowing people is at least half the battle in entry level jobs.

I think that going in as an older student can actually help you get connections. On Career days, when all the businesses send reps who are generally in their 20's and 30's to scout for talent, my buddies are able to ham it up because they can relate better.

YMMV, FWIW, ETC.

Dont want to be too encouraging, because going to school is expensive. But this is my experience.

[Man Jerk]

About 2.5 years ago at 32 I decided to go back to school for my IT degree. I just finished working an unpaid internship which sucked balls but I can now say I've got practical experience. I'm about 5 weeks from earning my AS in IT and have either worked full time or been a full time stay at home dad for the entire time (laid off ~1 year ago). I just accepted a job offer on a job I really, really, really, really wanted and should start in a week. My "education" definately helped but practical experience really helped me get the job. It'll be a entry level job but I'll be making what I need, not what I want so that's arlight. However I will get exposure to some very cool technology which is key. Hopefully in another 2.5 years I'll have my B.S. and a ton of great experience. I'll be slowly working on earning some certs as time allows (which isn't much) but I think in a few years once my kids start school I'll be in an awesome place!

I'll be on call 1 out of every 4 weeks which is just par for the course. But they are also giving me a phone allowance so I can finally get a new fancy phone which I've been wanting but didn't have the money. I've applied for some jobs that I was qualified for but didn't get, and most of them I didn't "really" want but would have been happy with. I've gained enough experience interviewing that I was cool, calm and collected.

Best of all is I won't be working a job I hate just to pay the bills.

Anyway... blah blah blah. Yes it's possible, it will be tons of work, you will have to research and play with stuff on your own just to say you have experience. I bought an old server on craigslist just to play with. learn Linux, do some research in virtualization, learn some basic networking and troubleshooting. Download VirtualBox or something similar just so that you can play with different OS's. I try to spend a few hours a week working in my "lab" just playing with different applications and stuff.

Good Luck.

[schuss]

oh, and the on-call stuff:
The shit side of IT is that you're basically always expected to be available for an emergency. Contact can be averted if you leave good documentation (docs/guides AND code comments if applicable), but it will probably still happen. The plus side to this is that many IT organizations can be pretty flexible about scheduling provided you're on the phone and the laptop when they need you to be. I know a few IT people who work 2-3 hour days on a regular basis, but 12+ hour days when the shit hits the fan.
Make sure any program you do is cert/experience based, and just read a ton online about tools etc. 30% of actual IT problem solving is google/tech forums, with the other 70% being split between intuition (does the person actually know what's wrong, or are they just talking out their ass) and technical skill/experience.
That said, it can be really fun if you enjoy creative problem solving, as in many cases there's about a hundred valid ways to solve a problem.

Oh, and try to train yourself on understanding Indian and Chinese accents. Trust me on this one.

[XXX-er]

One day a manager came into the meeting room, told a bunch of us "office product" techies (spit in the bucket division) that we had been absorbed or sft into one of the computer divisions (fucking huge end of the company and computing ) and we were all going to be computer techies, frankly I was a good natural "mechanic" and never really great at the computer part but I survived while not everyone in that room did so who gives a fuck?

I remember Dennis who had been a pretty good tech spec in OP becoming a peon in computers telling us "other than not knowing what I am doing I don't miss working on OP "

Personaly I would find something else but like a 55 yr old hooker ... I have probably been fucked too many times

edit: survival was probably due to being remote for (far away from managers/branch offices/headoffices) > half my career

[bagtagley]

Everywhere I've ever worked, the Network and Sys Admins are always the closest to a complete mental breakdown. My classes on networking were by far my favorite. In practice, I didn't like the work nor the stressed out people.

Learn to program. SQL has a relatively shallow learning curve, and database jobs are easier to find. Developers make more money, no on-call and much less stress.

[MTT]

I am another IT Guy, I guess you would classify me as high end system integration.

There is a demand out there. Large corporations really are trying to bring it back in-house (UN offshore)

Big demand for JAVA Application developers, even someone who can use / modify a vendor provided SDK has value. DBA's (Application DBA's) Network guys. Specifically network people who understand QOS VOIP, XML.

A combination or all of the above with a main strength in 1 area is good.

Best guys I have come across were people who went to Devry or ITT Tech for a year and just got it. I know a couple people who started as help desk or Night processer, and are now VP's Directors of very large IT departments. JPMorgan, Big Hospitals’. Apple Computer

FYI as others have said it’s not 9-5. The more you know the more you work. And its always outside normal hours, throw in supporting multiple times zones and well, ??

[keipow]

it sounds like you are a vet. hopefully you can maintain or gain a decent level security clearance.
if that is the case and you have the discipline to finish a full univ degree, i'd try for an engineering field and aim to work at places that require the clearances: refineries, defense contractors (aerospace/armor/shipyards), etc.
mechanical, chemical/petroleum, computer engineering.
(if you can keep a clearance, then you are honorably discharged, so uncle sam is paying anyway.)

government/defense contractors have difficulty hiring because they cannot hire foreign tech immigrants, so they pay more.

trade school means you get a job earlier, but work much harder and longer to get to where the BS leads you. let uncle sam pay for the univ.

how about pharmacy or nursing? less stress, more women, easier coursework, find jobs anywhere instead of major cities.

[MarsB]

Some good advice here. I second the recommendation for programmers, especially those who really know JAVA. Storage solutions is a growing area, as is security -in every facet. Networking can be hit or miss, seems every college CE grad thinks they want to do it, very few are any good. As mentioned, CCNE/CCNA certs will get your foot in the door, degrees are secondary. I'd say maybe 35-40% of our SAs and programmers have no 4 year degree but learned it in the military or elsewhere. Experience trumps all. And the ability to get a clearance is gold.

[schuss]

Oh, one other thing if you get a gig:
Learn at least the basics on how the other stuff works that interfaces with your stuff, regardless of how useless it seems. Getting an idea of the big picture is so rare in IT, causes a lot of the problems.

[4matic]

On call: Last week we developed a problem related to SQL logging. One of our engineers spent the entire holiday weekend working on it and was onsite at 05:00 this morning to verify the fix. He has a ski cabin and Tahoe and was supposed to ski with his daughter this weekend. He didn't ski. This morning he was very content that he fixed a critical problem for the business; seemed almost happy.

[Housed]

I really appreciate all the replies, thanks guys!

About certs vs. trade school vs. university: I already used my GIBill to pay for my BA but have managed to save a bit over all my overseas adventures so not too worried about the price tag. It seems like an 100-level class at Salt Lake CC or the U might be a good idea just to take a look at what's out there and if I'm into it as much as I think I am.

About security clearances, non-traditional student life, etc.: Yeah I have an active TS/SCI that'll be good for a few years so that's nice to have for sure. Shouldn't have a problem in interviews as I've been to promotion boards, soldier of the month boards and all that jazz. I guess the only thing left to worry about is if I'll be able to sleep at night knowing how socially reprehensible it will be as a 30-something plowing an undergrad chica. We all have our crosses to bear.

I return to SLC in a few weeks for vaca and don't have to leave again for a month or two so if anyone wants to grab a brewha PM Rontele and he'll get to me.

[MTT]

Oh, one other thing if you get a gig:
Learn at least the basics on how the other stuff works that interfaces with your stuff, regardless of how useless it seems. Getting an idea of the big picture is so rare in IT, causes a lot of the problems.

EXACTLY

Most of us have to know a bit about everything, every now and then I have to move around in a Data Base the past 4 year it’s DB2

Have to work with AIX and Windows server, need to know a bit about network,
Almost everything I touch is moving into some kind of Runtime environment, JAVA Sql, XML files created and referenced to JAVA! Java hosted services, JAVA thin client desk -Top developed using vendor SDK.

I have to expand my understanding of JAVA. Not knowing is killing me.

But yea to be effective you need to be able to work in allot of different environments/

And to the OP its is all about what you know. what you have done, demonstrate what you can do.
YOU NEVER STOP LEARNING. You cannot go learn something then just relax and apply knowledge to skate along.
You are always pressed to learn more, keep up with constant change, learn and apply new platforms and concepts.
IT people think about work no matter where they are, you trouble shoot and design in your head while driving, golfing, skiing.

Drinking a fucking is about the only time ya get any relief