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Thread: It is lame to ski moguls?
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04-04-2019, 03:59 PM #476
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04-04-2019, 06:41 PM #477Registered User
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Late 90’s, my brother was working at W-B. CBC TV was covering the World Cup moguls Comp. One of his friends worked for CBC and the ran into each other in the AM in the village...”Rusty, you have your ski gear?” “Yep”...”Cool, we need you”...
Next think he knows he is miked up and at the top of the mogul run with two others. All decent skiers....The film that played on CBC is epic. I wish I could post it here, but I don’t have the full clip. Need to find the old VHS and post it. Needless to say, none of the 3 skiers made it down the run, and my brothers was a thing of beauty....
Later that week, my brother (name is Rusty), is in the cafeteria grabbing lunch. He looks up at the monitors playing W-B advertising and videos. Suddenly a bunch of co-workers join him. A couple minutes later...video comes on....”Is your mogul skiing a little “Rusty”?” The ski school is stealing the run to advertise their wares! One of my families 5 minutes of fame. If I can find it, I shall post it...it is priceless....needless to say, the run defines the term “yard sale”
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04-04-2019, 08:29 PM #478ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz
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04-04-2019, 08:31 PM #479ski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz
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04-04-2019, 09:13 PM #480
I've had an Alta/bird pass for the last 15 years. Neither generally have good bump lines. Low boy at the Alta is occasionally ok. Right side of silver Fox, under little cloud and sometimes mineral are ok. Alta gets moguled out quicker than the bird (I thank snowboarders for heel sliding Moguls smooth). I love ripping zipper lines but LCC isn't the place for good mogul lines. And snowboarders aren't ruining Moguls. Skis with tight turn radius sidecut are. As far as kids go. The Alta/bird Grom rippers generally ski Moguls well but they certainly don't specialize in them
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04-06-2019, 12:51 AM #481
Gunna keep the mogul stoke rollin' with Jean-Luc Brassard... I've never seen anyone with better ROM in the bumps. Knees so high, hips so deep. Unreal. And specifically topical to this thread, he was a master at skiing natural moguls with WC speed and impeccable form. He's obviously a physical and athletic freak of nature though:
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04-13-2019, 09:41 AM #482
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04-13-2019, 10:24 AM #483Registered User
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Bears think moguls are lame?
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04-14-2019, 04:06 AM #484
I'm going to throw this in here because I feel like a better mogul skier for just reading it:
https://www.pugski.com/threads/momen...0/#post-349554OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman Big Billie Eilish fan.
But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er
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04-14-2019, 07:08 AM #485
blech....read through that discussion and quickly achieved a level of frustration inappropriate for a Sunday Morning.
I wrote out an exhaustive discussion of how to think about moguls and teach yourself moguls for our Texan bumper here....the appearance, and existence, of whom makes me love this forum by the way.... and to boil it down:
You get real comfortable and balanced in really short swing turns.
You get real comfortable and balanced in absorption.
You work on placing those short swing turns (you're now real good at) in a line that you can absorb (also now good at that)....
then you have the turns, the absorption, and the line selection. That's bumping (minus the airs).
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04-14-2019, 10:53 AM #486
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05-02-2019, 01:36 AM #487
The only thing lamer than skiing moguls is talking about skiing moguls.
There is a ton of great bumping info on Pugski; jack97 and MisterMoose in particular know exactly what the fuck they're talking about. That said... a lot of it ends up being finer points and detailed nuances.
Mr. ill-advised strategy also knows what the fuck he's talking about. There are only two comments I'd tag onto his advice:
You get real comfortable actively pressuring the tips into the troughs
You graduate from releasing your edges with leg extension (aka: crossing-over) to releasing your edges with leg flexion (aka: crossing-under)
That last one made a huge difference for me in my eternal quest for the zipperline. I think many folks learn to ski in the progression of Snow Plow --> Stem Christie --> Parallel Turns --> Edge Release by Extension, and then forever remain a terminal intermediate. For all of my internet reading, Edge Release by Flexion isn't talked about nearly enough and without it, you will never ever learn to mogul ski. You may become very proficient at skiing in the moguls by Releasing by Extension, but you will never be a bump skier if you're not Releasing by Flexion.
HA!!! I'm not sure if I should take this as a personal insult or a personal flattery, but I'm going to choose the latter. Either way, I'm happy to make this place better in anyway I can. Either by my contributions or at my expense, both are fine with me.
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05-02-2019, 02:09 AM #488
Any good videos with what you just mentioned re: crossing under?
BTW - Today is day 2 of my official 'mogul self practice'. Nice deep troughs but not very steep. I thought I was absorbing until I saw the video my wife took and then I was really embarrassed! 1) I use pole plants as a crutch and 2) I twist my upper body throwing me completely off balance and 3) Well, I think I absorb but I'm really rigid compared to any pros or lessons on YouTube. It is improving very SLOWLY.OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman Big Billie Eilish fan.
But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er
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05-02-2019, 05:41 AM #489
Great video showing the “backwards bicycle” absorption in an animation mid way through.
https://youtu.be/8jlRPwHlfMc
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05-02-2019, 05:57 PM #490OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman Big Billie Eilish fan.
But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er
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05-02-2019, 06:12 PM #491
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05-07-2019, 04:23 AM #492
Is it lame to ski moguls? I don't know but I'm almost lame after trying for a few days! I'm seriously wondering if my bindings need to be dialed back a din or two after not ejecting when I think I should have.
In other news, suppose someone didn't want an ultra-skinny mogul ski but wanted a ski that is 75 mm to 80 mm wide (not a kids ski) that is a good all-round park/moguls ski? Probably a nice sandwich construction with a soft tip and tail. Does such a ski exist amongst non-mogul skis? Any suggestions for what works for you? For the record, I have a used pair of ID ONE moguls skis, 61mm wide, but they have no tail, no sidecut, and pretty much useless at anything but moguls - which is kinda the point but surely there is something more of a crossover to a park/groomer/twin that exists, no?Last edited by puregravity; 05-07-2019 at 05:05 AM.
OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman Big Billie Eilish fan.
But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er
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05-07-2019, 05:24 AM #493
Armada AR 8?
Full camber, soft tip, stiffer tail...80 something.
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05-07-2019, 10:18 PM #494
Here are a couple illustrating Edge Release by Flexion (aka retraction):
(ignore his comments about "backseat" or "toiletseat", I think that shit sends the wrong message)
as compared to Edge Release by Extension:
I've found this is critical in mogul skiing because as a zipperline beginner (like me) your goal should be to maintain ski contact with the snow as much as possible. Whenever your skis aren't on the snow, you're picking up speed.
Speaking of speed, your goal shouldn't be to look like the
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but instead, aim for something smooth, controlled, and relatively slow, like:
I never hope to mogul ski any faster than that.
Hell yes. The hassle of postage alone would make this give and take untenable.
There are tons.
If you want to ski moguls with a round, short turn style, most any all-mountain ski will do great. The average denizen of TGR will disagree vigorously, but after skiing all-mountain skis, all-mountain park skis, and mogul skis, I'm convinced that if you want to ski moguls in a direct, zipperline style, nothing works better than mogul skis. If you're a beginner (again, like me) to this style, the more forgiving K2 244 and Fischer Gunbarrel are probably what you want; if your bank account has more zeros than WWII Japan, then go with the Shamans or IDOnes. Mogul skis are great on groomers and are shaped exactly like what folks were skiing groomers on all through the 80s and 90s. Being too skinny for any sort of fresh, too soft and detuned for ice, groomer skiing is probably the only thing (besides bumps) that mogul skis don't suck at. I know you mentioned you tried the IDOnes, but if it was only for a couple runs, then it might not have been a fair shake. I found that switching from years of skiing modern skis, getting on mogul-specific skis took a few hours to figure out how to make them work. Modern skis had made me really lazy with fore-aft centering and actively pressuring the tips on turn initiation.
But, mogul-specific skis probably suck in the park. Luckily, the similarity between park skis and mogul skiing is probably closer than any other two types of skiing. They will definitely be a compromise in the bumps, though. Many great mogul skiers can rip zipperlines on park skis with not a sliver of daylight between their knees, but that's mostly because they're that good at bumps, already have perfect technique, and have logged plenty of hours on mogul-specific skis already.
That's a great recommendation. Basically, you want something <90mm underfoot, soft tips, stiffer tails, with a longer turn radius (less side cut).
I was about one beer away from saying "ah, fuck it" and buying a pair of skis like that. My short list was the 2018 Armada ARV 86, Blizzard Rustler 9, and the Nordica Navigator 80. Then I had four more beers and said "FUCK IT!!" and bought mogul skis instead.Last edited by CS2-6; 05-08-2019 at 02:17 AM.
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05-08-2019, 01:50 AM #495
i love how specific some want to get with the Ski>yo uare not racing for a +/-.0001
just get an old pair of B2's for100 bucks , and let it ripski paintingshttp://michael-cuozzo.fineartamerica.com" horror has a face; you must make a friend of horror...horror and moral terror.. are your friends...if not, they are enemies to be feared...the horror"....col Kurtz
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05-08-2019, 09:33 AM #496
Pretty much this. Unless you're skiing moguls competitively, just about any mid-fat will ski moguls just fine. A little softer tip and stiffer tail is fine with a ski in anything less than 90mm. I skied a few mogul runs this year on x96 and they were fine. My old Rossi E88 were a bit better but pretty much a toss-up. If I was competing, I'd want a more mogul specific ski but, I'm not.
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05-08-2019, 11:54 AM #497Registered User
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Rode my E88's in everything till they were dead.
Demo'd Nordica Navigator 85's and was blown away how good they were in the bumps. Not sure if they would satisfy your park requirement. Not even sure what would make an all mountain mid ski a good park ski... is it just twin tips to ski backwards? One ski slides/grinds the rails better than another ski?
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05-08-2019, 03:35 PM #498OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman Big Billie Eilish fan.
But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er
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05-08-2019, 04:13 PM #499Registered User
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Just an FYI, as liquid in the bumps as I found the Navigators to be, they were just a bit to squirrely at speed elsewhere. As an east coast beater I opted for the Enforcers as my daily drivers. I do think I will pick up a gently used pair of Navigators for those bumpier days though.
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05-08-2019, 04:28 PM #500
Thanks for the ski suggestions. I'm going to change the channel and stop thinking that I need 'another ski' to get the job done. I've got a pair of used IDONE skis and it is def a real mogul ski and I'm going to just use it for days dedicated to mogul practice (an enjoyable thought in a kind of sadistic way). I have come to the realization that I'll just have to bring the mogul skis on the days that I want to practice zipper-line style moguls and switch midday or something to my usual 95 wide ski that suits pretty much everything. It only makes sense that learning proper mogul technique on a real mogul ski is the way to go. I've seen people on DPS 112Rps ripping moguls really well and it would seem that once I figure out how to do it, I'll probably be happy on whatever ski to get the job done. I'll put my extra money into lessons instead of new skis and see if that helps even more.
In 3 days of practice, I've figured out that the fear of speed in the moguls, and fear or getting really really forward. It's a whole new feel to contour a vertical-wall-snow-trough with the front of the skis and not get launched head over heels. The video of the reverse unicycle is really good, I tried that and it was like doing the pump-track with a BMX bike. I sped up too and that scared me ... lol. But it felt a lot better and fun to feel the sensation of the absorbtion and extension. It's like a whole new ski form and learning to ski again. That actually motivates me a lot since it is actually new and exciting even though I've been a recreational skier for a long time. I've never actually learned proper mogul skiing until nowOH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman Big Billie Eilish fan.
But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er
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