WTF is Flipcore? (An Attempt at an Explanation)

[hafilax]

IIRC, K2 did that piezo thing years ago. Had little LEDs on the top sheet that would flicker.

[tuco]

That microchip is nothing new for Head either. My 8 or 9 year old Monster 103's have it as well.

[SiSt]

Piezoelectrics actually have the possibility of being functional, and are fast enough to be so. Active piezoelectric systems are used in tailrudders on US fighter planes in order to dampen vibrations. Again, not saying that it's the best thing since steel edges, but it CAN (potentially) actually work.

[Shorty_J]

FWIW, the Cochise have no camber. None. At least mine don't. They are perfectly flat underfoot (i.e. you don't need to squeeze them together at all to get the bases together) with the obvious rocker tip and tail.

I also like them.

Fair enough. The pair I was eyeballing at my local shop seemed to have maybe 1mm of camber for a very small section under foot... but I could be wrong because I didn't really notice, at first, that the Bonafide does have a small section of camber under foot.

[grskier]

Fair enough. The pair I was eyeballing at my local shop seemed to have maybe 1mm of camber for a very small section under foot... but I could be wrong because I didn't really notice, at first, that the Bonafide does have a small section of camber under foot.

I have a little camber under foot, just a few mm.

FWIW there isn't any as soon as you put the skis together and the brakes lock.

[bean]

Just to be clear, in my own (feeble) mind, the jury is still out on what is BS and what isn't. What is clear is that questions remain, and we'll see what sort of reply we get at SIA. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

And before Blizzard gets killed for it's marketing, let's remember that a whole lot of companies are putting out lesser skis than the Cochise, but pretty much every marketing department in the industry dials the volume up to eleven.

To me, the most amazing part about all this isn't Blizzard's claims, it's that nobody in the review world asked questions about how this stuff really works, and what it actually does. They just said it's awesome.

Praise them for the skis, skewer them for the marketing spew. It doesn't have to be either/or.

[JFE24]

Praise them for the skis, skewer them for the marketing spew. It doesn't have to be either/or.

Obviously. And pretty much what we've done, except that we are genuinely interested in hearing Blizzard out. Our piece raises questions, and we've tried to make clear what makes sense and what seems pretty suspect. But it seems more fair to give Blizzard the chance to reply, rather than just proceed to skewer. Admittedly, it's fun and really easy to simply rush to praise or rush to kill just about anything. But then, we're simply on the other side of the coin from the marketing departments.

[bean]

Obviously. And pretty much what we've done, except that we are genuinely interested in hearing Blizzard out. Our piece raises questions, and we've tried to make clear what makes sense and what seems pretty suspect. But it seems more fair to give Blizzard the chance to reply, rather than just proceed to skewer. Admittedly, it's fun and really easy to simply rush to praise or rush to kill just about anything. But then, we're simply on the other side of the coin from the marketing departments.

"Flipcore" is so out there and promising so much and has absolutely no back up from Blizzard, so in my mind they have it coming. There's no "how" or "why," just "it's friggin' magic! give us money!"

[captainvaughan]

I'm surprised that you guys are surprised that Blizzard is trying to market the shit out a new system that no one else uses.

Really? Of course they're going to push this.

As an owner of some bonafides, I will tell you that it is a remarkable ski and whatever the hell they did, they did it right. But Blizzard is a business, and like all other businesses they're pushing their product. Why do they have to "come clean" about anything. Just ski it.

[Shorty_J]

I'm surprised that you guys are surprised that Blizzard is trying to market the shit out a new system that no one else uses.

Really? Of course they're going to push this.

As an owner of some bonafides, I will tell you that it is a remarkable ski and whatever the hell they did, they did it right. But Blizzard is a business, and like all other businesses they're pushing their product. Why do they have to "come clean" about anything. Just ski it.

You have 7 posts and every one of those except the first one is about Blizzard Skis... maybe you're part of the marketing BS, huh? If so, please fuck off.

And even if you're not, BS is BS and I shouldn't have to tolerate it because it's expected.

What most reasonable people on this forum want are detailed descriptions and rocker/camber profiles of the skis dimentions and some construction details, not drivel. As an example of what is ideal, refer to ON3P's website... they tell you a bit about the ski without gushing with meaningless trademark-able terms.

[biff chalupa]

^^^I know him. He's definitely not part of the marketing hype, just a satisfied customer and wants to sing it from the tree tops. I do agree, straight forward descriptions/details are the best way to get my money.

[captainvaughan]

You have 7 posts and every one of those except the first one is about Blizzard Skis... maybe you're part of the marketing BS, huh? If so, please fuck off.

And even if you're not, BS is BS and I shouldn't have to tolerate it because it's expected.

What most reasonable people on this forum want are detailed descriptions and rocker/camber profiles of the skis dimentions and some construction details, not drivel. As an example of what is ideal, refer to ON3P's website... they tell you a bit about the ski without gushing with meaningless trademark-able terms.

Haha. You mad, bro? Just ski it, then you can tell all the reasonable people.

[TahoeJ]

Same here - my Cochise 185 are absolutely flat underfoot.

So in general, I think I agree that it's not necessarily the flipped core itself that's so effective, more so that the flipped core allows them to apply less pressure during construction. That IS what they're saying the marketing, although more succinctly because marketing 101 tells you to keep it simple stupid. I don't think it's BS.

FWIW, the Cochise have no camber. None. At least mine don't. They are perfectly flat underfoot (i.e. you don't need to squeeze them together at all to get the bases together) with the obvious rocker tip and tail.

I also like them.

[ACH]

My Cochise 185's are completely flat under foot...

My 2c...

It doesn't matter whether it's marketing BS or not, or whether you like it or not.
That fact is, people are talking/debating about it, which means that it's getting attention...
Plus people are liking how they ski.
That is the point.

At the end of the day, most ski companies hype something to help create that point of differentiation or a unique selling proposition, that they hope will steer you to their product instead of anther brands. Some times it's with "technology" other times it's pro riders, and yet other times it's a company mantra they hope resonates with skiers. Blizzard is no better or worse than any other brand in this regard.

[captainvaughan]

My Coshise 185's are completely flat under foot...

No camber on the Cochise? I thought that was only the bodacious.

[biff chalupa]

No camber on the Cochise? I thought that was only the bodacious.

Only your bonafides have camber, and slight camber at that.

[Shorty_J]

Haha. You mad, bro? Just ski it, then you can tell all the reasonable people.

Did you read any of my posts? I'll say it for a third time... I skied it and I liked it.

[doughboyshredder]

The premier alpine board builder (coiler) who builds boards for many of the top alpine riders (yeah they're still out there) has been doing something similar for years. He actually profiles the camber and rocker(or decamber as it is referred to in alpine boards) in to the core. So he starts with a very thick core that ends up being profiled on both sides. Many less full length wood grains, which supposedly aids with vibration dampening.
I think there may be some benefit to what they are doing, however, if they are only profiling one side and then flipping the core they are still pressing the shape whether rocker or camber in to the core.

Sent from my PantechP8000 using TGR Forums

[TahoeJ]

I guess we should be prepared for the 2014 line of Blizzard DOUBLE flipcore skis then, right?

however, if they are only profiling one side and then flipping the core they are still pressing the shape whether rocker or camber in to the core.