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  1. #1
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    review: many skis (BD, black crows, 4FRNT, rossi, coreupt etc) at verb demo days

    me: 50, 180 x 83, old and lazy, likes DPS w105 and 112, 4FRNT ren and CRJ, S7, etc. Hates skis with long tails.

    location: verb 5 days after the last sorm. Almost everything tracked but still some nice pockets. groomed, crud, crust, etc.

    4FRNT YLE 186: I know I love renegades and CRJ, so tried the YLE: very solid ski, ask for speed and pays dividend with a safe and confidence-inspiring drive. But it's a bit lazy and do not want to curve a lot. nice possible choice as a single quiver ski for yurp, but a bit too much demanding for me... infact it's much more stiff than CRJ.

    FACTION ROYALE 183: I like this kind of ski (very flat, zero camber and rocker) but not a lot in this royale version. Does not play a lot, and gave a numb-deaf feeling. To be honest, though, the demo they gave me was pretty abused and detuned.

    COREUPT SLASHER 179: fun toy ski, want to play but is still able to carve decently. Tails though were too long for me, I gave up quickly.

    COREUPT BORN TO DROP 187: superstrange ski, with a lot of positive camber, very soft tips and a stiff tail that has an abrupt rocker at the end of the huge positive camber. As a result, I've found the tails too much erratic. It might be a good ski for someone (jibbers? huckers?) but I could not understand the tails and dial with them.

    BD VERDICT 180: hyperstiff tails that - IMVHO - made the ski supermuscular and overdemanding. What is the rationale for these tails? a jungle ski that said nothing to me.

    BD AMP 186: the first 15 min in soft snow were great, I thought I finally found a BD ski I like. But as soon as I moved to hard snow, I loose my good feeling with the Amp. The torsion box is very strong, but does not return a predictable elastic feeling when carving. As a soft snow tool, I'd like it. But any transfer in hard snow would be a PIA.

    BLACK CROWS SEVUN 191: I tried some black crows some time ago when they were (reportedly) made by blossom. Now I've been told some are made in the tunisia movement/tua factory and some other by elan. The sevun is a kind of ski I like: big, smooooth, predictable, cadillac-like. It's more smooth than similar big stiff guns like old squads and blizzard titan pro (I like both of them), but a bit less aggressive and precise.

    BLACK CROWS NOCTA 176: hey Mr J, you've done a superb work. I did not like the JJ, but liked a lot these nocta. I was surprised to see J regnier on the mallory with these, now I understand: they bring you safely and easily were you want to go: Not aggressive, not demanding, just a safe tram to the huge mountain line. Chapeau, one of the best skis of the test days. BTW, they have a few mm positive camber and huge rocker..... quite similar to w112.

    BLACK CROWS ORB 186: these skis are building a good reputation for yurp AT, tried them in 179 some years ago and felt them as nothing special, this second time I liked them more. They have a HUGE positve camber and tiny tips... something I thought I could not like. Said that, they were ok. Very old-fashioned, predictable tools that are still quite enjoyable on hard snow.

    ROSSIGNOL SCIMITAR 185: Simply said, a revelation. Continuos negative camber, light, medium stiff, wood. They generate an elastic return when carved (or bent in soft snow) that is absolutely amazing for such a slim ski.... and are very very very easy to drive and dance. They like to play and give back a lot of power, like a rrroar small muscle car. I always liked S3, but these scimitars are even more surprising. Definitely the tool I'd like to use on any no-new-snow day in verb. I suspect though that the edges must be always kept in good shape to use them at best.

    DUPRAZ D2 179: strange, short, highly asimmetric sticks (like dwarf version of Salomon BBR) that have a side for powder and another for piste (I mean.. on one side it's written this side for piste, on the other this side for powder...). I tried them out of curiosity and did not like 'em that much, although the concept is intriguing and might deserve more test and consideration.

    Final remark: the ski I liked most (Rossi scimitar) was the cheapest. It's on sale in yurp for some 300 euro, about 50% less than blizzard bonafide-bushwaker (which are similar U shape... and I would be suprised to find them much better than scimitars) and maybe one third of what you might pay for superpremium stuff like kastle..... mmmmmmmh
    Last edited by verbier61; 01-17-2012 at 03:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    Thanks. Good to read your views, especially for a few of the skis I didn't get out on, largely because they were out whenever I was back.

    Hope you had a good day.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    thanks man, good reviews, short and sweet. maybe ill look into the noctas. were they still pretty playful and slarvy at low speeds?
    nocta prawn> http://www.spatziba.com/ski/julien_self_edit_2068
    step off the A, bro.

  4. #4
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    Did you have a close look at the scimitar to make sure the rocker profile is correct? I only ask because there have been a number of reports of camber profiles that are not as they are described, and even one un-confirmed report on this years model.
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by another skier View Post
    Thanks. Good to read your views, especially for a few of the skis I didn't get out on, largely because they were out whenever I was back.

    Hope you had a good day.
    Hi there! What ski did you like? I met nordkette who liked some rabbits on the roof. But this time I wanted to focus on skis from factories and not from boutiques (well, dupraz was an exception but these boards looked so strange...)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by newe english View Post
    thanks man, good reviews, short and sweet. maybe ill look into the noctas. were they still pretty playful and slarvy at low speeds?
    nocta prawn> http://www.spatziba.com/ski/julien_self_edit_2068
    Yes, they were amazingly easy and friendly even at low speed.... Overall, very user-friendly skis

  7. #7
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    I have posted my reviews, but basically I was really impressed by the Faction Agent Pro, and I really enjoyed the Megawatt as well, though there was no snow for them.

    I only had a couple of hours, and so it was a bit rushed. I had been interested to try the Nocta, but did not get the chance, so it was good to read your review.

    Thanks again.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    Did you have a close look at the scimitar to make sure the rocker profile is correct? I only ask because there have been a number of reports of camber profiles that are not as they are described, and even one un-confirmed report on this years model.
    Yep, first thing I did. Contunuous, smooth negative camber, as reported in rossi's web site etc. similar to flipcore blizzards.... Maybe even a bit more of negative camber, I saw cochise and bodacious one year ago and maybe I am not accurate, please forgive. Btw, there was no rossi stand at the test days, I asked to demo the scimitars some weeks ago and they were delivered by chance this weekend.

  9. #9
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    Interesting review about the BD Amp. On paper it sounds great, seemed sort of similar to the RP112 which I love. Maybe it is not even close!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird Blaster View Post
    Interesting review about the BD Amp. On paper it sounds great, seemed sort of similar to the RP112 which I love. Maybe it is not even close!
    Very different on hard snow, similarly fun in soft

  11. #11
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    Interesting read.
    Elastic rebound through the turn on hard snow with a fully rocked ski? wow. Care to explain a little more, or did it really carve like a ski with camber?
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  12. #12
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    nice review as ever.
    you skied 10 pairs in one day

    demo the white dot director if you ever get chance
    reading between lines it might interest you as a fully rockered daily driver.
    (though i havent skied on any of the above)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Interesting read.
    Elastic rebound through the turn on hard snow with a fully rocked ski? wow. Care to explain a little more, or did it really carve like a ski with camber?
    I have the sickle and it very hard to tell that is full on reverse albeit is reverse very long and low rise The cochise has better edge grip, but are not as easy to ski.

    Compared to the katana is much better on hard snow

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish_Skier View Post
    nice review as ever.
    you skied 10 pairs in one day

    demo the white dot director if you ever get chance
    reading between lines it might interest you as a fully rockered daily driver.
    (though i havent skied on any of the above)
    11 pairs in two days :-)
    there is a huge list of skis I'd like to try (or at least to see) if they were available in verb, from white dots to down :-(

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Interesting read.
    Elastic rebound through the turn on hard snow with a fully rocked ski? wow. Care to explain a little more, or did it really carve like a ski with camber?
    right. The elastic return of the scimitar was exactly the opposite of what I was expecting from such a fully rockered ski.... but hey it was amazing.
    To be sure I felt it the right way, soon after the scimitar I wanted to try a traditional ski with a lot of positive camber (black crows orb), and it was way less lively under the central edges and with much less elastic return. Than I took back the scimitar and - bang - felt again this "spring" effect.
    I should read in more detail the blister gear review of the scimitars to understand if they felt something similar.

  16. #16
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    Thanks for posting! Interesting bout the scimitar.

    I recently sold my S7's cause they were just too soft and hingy and I thought the design worked better in a smaller package at any rate (S3). Got my first weekend on the S3 (186 mounted w/ quiver killers for dynafit and solly, thanks to Sole) on exactly the kind of terrain I got them for (skinning for scraps, having fun, groomers and trees) and they were great. My only complaint is that the tail was pretty soft and would launch you every once in a while. I tend to prefer a stiffer tail (explosiv, RC112).

    Does the scimitar have a stiffer tail than the S3?

    Thanks!
    'waxman is correct, and so far with 40+ days of tasting them there is no way my tongue can tell the difference between wood, and plastic made to taste like wood...but i'm a weirdo and lick my gear...' -kidwoo

  17. #17
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    probably yes, but to be honest I haven't skied the S3 since last summer (zerm glacier for some teleboot-tests), so I should check it out again....

  18. #18
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    Nov 2010
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    A lot of skiers thinks that full rocker kills rebound completely, but I dont agree. I think that myth is created from the fact that most skis that had full rocker in the first rocker years are skis that wouldnt have any rebound no matter the camber/rocker profile. The rebound is more a question of construction, as in core/fiber/metal choice and its relation to the sidecut.

    The most reactive and poppy skis that I have tried on hardpack either had low full rocker, flat camber or hybrid camber, in other words they were skis from all kind of rocker/camber shapes. As long as the rocker atleast donīt go super negative, it doesnīt nearly seem to have the effect on the level of rebound in the way that a lot of skiers think. Instead, the main reason to put a slight positive camber in the mid section is to give you a slight bit of support and stability in the middle of the turn. A fully rockered ski almost rotate around itīs center when you keep it flat, and it can feel very over-steered in some moments, especially when you loose the control in short turn skiing in bumby pist conditions. A slight camber underfoot eleminates that problem, but takes away some of that power steering effect and super easy turn initiation in a fully rockered ski. A slight camber also makes a short active length behave a bit longer. But as for rebound, it doesnt depend that much on camber profile, as long as itīs a low rocker. I would say that the people that claim that it does, didnt really try it, but rather believe the most logical theoretical explanation. Camber SHOULD give rebound, yes, and probably partly does. But other parameters in ski design have way more effect.

  19. #19
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    made a mistake (and corrected it): nocta were 176, not 184. They skied longer that 176, though... and certainly were not any shorter

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MnO_____ View Post
    A lot of skiers thinks that full rocker kills rebound completely, but I dont agree...

    ...Lots of good words, but edited out for brevity in response....

    ... But as for rebound, it doesnt depend that much on camber profile, as long as itīs a low rocker. I would say that the people that claim that it does, didnt really try it, but rather believe the most logical theoretical explanation. Camber SHOULD give rebound, yes, and probably partly does. But other parameters in ski design have way more effect.
    After reading this I think I agree with you. I used my 2011 Volkl Katana's (more rocker than current one's) on some 1-2" of soft over icy base this weekend. It does have rebound, it just seems to start "later" and finish "earlier" than a heavily cambered ski. I think it has somewhat to do with the starting point, when pushing on the tails it'll return to it's original shape with only a slight rebound past it, on a normal cambered ski this provides quite a bit of the pop, this just seems to me to be subtler, but definitely does exist IMHO.

    Hope that makes sense....

    Also Scimitar sounds very interesting, I've yet to see a negative reaction to these.

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